[1.12.x] Near Future Technologies (September 6)

[Nertea]

39 minutes ago, Crixomix said:

So I have recently began to start a big modded playthrough and the goal is to play JNSQ once Kopernicus updates Soon TM. However, I was playing around with the cool new phased array antenna things from NF Exploration and I can't seem to get them to work. The "reflector buff" area is always blank, even if they're aiming right at a reflector, and the "render antenna path" buttons do nothing in the editor. Below is my modlist. I'm wondering if another mod is causing the issue. I did try uninstalling KRnD to see if that fixed it and it didn't, so I don't think that one is the issue.

 

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Action Groups Extended (AGExt 1:2.4.0.1)
AmpYear (AmpYearPowerManager 1:V1.5.6.0)
B9 Part Switch (B9PartSwitch v2.13.0)
Better SR Bs (BetterSRBs 1.1.0)
BetterBurnTime (BetterBurnTime 1.10)
BetterCrewAssignment (BetterCrewAssignment 1.4)
BetterTimeWarpContinued (BetterTimeWarpCont 2.3.12.5)
blackheart612's Procedural Part Textures (ProceduralParts-Textures-SCCKSCS 1)
BonVoyage (BonVoyage 1:1.0.1.1)
CapCom - Mission Control On The Go (CapCom 2.11)
Celestial Body Science Editor (CelestialBodyScienceEditor 12.0)
ClickThrough Blocker (ClickThroughBlocker 0.1.9.5)
CommNet Antennas Consumptor (CommNetAntennasConsumptor 2.3.3)
CommNet Antennas Info (CommNetAntennasInfo 2.3.3)
CommNet Constellation (CommNetConstellation 1.5.1)
Community Parts Titles (CommunityPartsTitles 0.5.4)
Community Resource Pack (CommunityResourcePack 1.3.0.0)
Community Tech Tree (CommunityTechTree 1:3.4.0)
Contract Configurator (ContractConfigurator 1.28.0)
Contract Pack: Bases and Stations Reborn (ContractConfigurator-KerbinSpaceStation 2:3.7.2.1)
Contract Pack: Clever Sats (ContractConfigurator-CleverSats 1.4)
Contract Pack: Exploration Plus (ContractConfigurator-ExplorationPlus 1.0.2)
Contract Pack: Field Research (ContractConfigurator-FieldResearch 1.2.1)
Contract Pack: Kerbal Academy (ContractConfigurator-KerbalAcademy 1.1.10)
Contract Pack: Tourism Plus (ContractConfigurator-Tourism 1.5.2)
Contract Parser (ContractParser 9.0)
Contract Reward Modifier (ContractRewardModifier 2.7)
Contracts Window + (ContractsWindowPlus 9.4)
Cryo Tanks (CryoTanks 1.4.0)
Cryo Tanks Core (CryoTanks-Core 1.4.0)
Cryogenic Engines (CryoEngines 1:1.1.0)
Custom Barn Kit (CustomBarnKit 1.1.20.0)
DefaultActionGroups (DefaultActionGroups 1.3)
Deployable Engines Plugin (DeployableEngines 1.2.0)
DMagic Orbital Science (DMagicOrbitalScience 1.4.3)
Docking Port Alignment Indicator (DockingPortAlignmentIndicator 6.8.5)
Dynamic Battery Storage (DynamicBatteryStorage 2:2.1.4.0)
Editor Extensions Redux (EditorExtensionsRedux 3.4.1)
Environmental Visual Enhancements (EnvironmentalVisualEnhancements 2:EVE-1.8.0-2)
Extended information about scientific experiments in VAB (ScienceSituationInfo 1:1.3.4)
Heat Control (HeatControl 0.5.0)
Infernal Robotics - Next (InfernalRoboticsNext v3.0.0)
Kerbal Alarm Clock (KerbalAlarmClock v3.12.0.0)
Kerbal Atomics (KerbalAtomics 1:1.1.1)
Kerbal Atomics - Other Mod Support (KerbalAtomics-NTRModSupport 1.1.1)
Kerbal Engineer Redux (KerbalEngineerRedux 1.1.7.1)
Kerbal Joint Reinforcement - Next (KerbalJointReinforcementNext v4.1.15)
Kerbal Research & Development (KRnD 1.16.0.1)
KRASH - Kerbal Ramification Artifical Simulation Hub (simulation mod for KSP) (KRASH 0.5.32)
KSP AVC (KSP-AVC 1.4.1.4)
MagiCore (MagiCore 1.3.2.3)
Module Manager (ModuleManager 4.1.3)
Near Future Construction (NearFutureConstruction 1.2.1)
Near Future Electrical (NearFutureElectrical 1.1.0)
Near Future Electrical Core (NearFutureElectrical-Core 1.1.0)
Near Future Exploration (NearFutureExploration 1.0.3)
Near Future IVA Props (NearFutureProps 1:0.6.1)
Near Future Propulsion (NearFuturePropulsion 1.2.0)
Near Future Solar (NearFutureSolar 1.1.0)
Near Future Solar Core (NearFutureSolar-Core 1.1.0)
Near Future Spacecraft (NearFutureSpacecraft 1.3.0)
Node Helper (NodeHelper 1.5.1.2)
Part Angle Display Continued (PADContinued 0.4.0)
Part Commander Continued (PartCommanderCont 1.1.6.1)
PlanetShine (PlanetShine 0.2.6.3)
PlanetShine - Default configuration (PlanetShine-Config-Default 0.2.6.3)
Precise Maneuver (PreciseManeuver 2:2.4.4)
Procedural Parts (ProceduralParts v1.3.21)
Procedural Parts - MainSailor's Procedural Textures - Complete Texture Pack (MainSailorTextures-Complete 2.0.0.0.1)
Procedural Parts - MainSailor's Procedural Textures - Essential Textures and Flag (MainSailorTextures-Essentials 2.0.0.0.1)
Procedural Parts - Saturn / Nova Texture Pack (ProceduralParts-Textures-SaturnNova 1.2)
Procedural Parts - Ven's Revamp Style Textures (VensStylePPTextures 1.1)
Procedural Start (ProceduralStart 1.0.2)
Progress Parser (ProgressParser 11.0)
RasterPropMonitor (RasterPropMonitor 1:v0.31.2)
RasterPropMonitor Core (RasterPropMonitor-Core 1:v0.31.2)
RCS Build Aid Continued (RCSBuildAidCont 1:0.10.0)
RealChute Parachute Systems (RealChute v1.4.7.5)
REPOSoftTech-Agencies (REPOSoftTech-Agencies V1.5.6.0)
ResearchBodies (ResearchBodies 2:V1.11.0.0)
ReStock (ReStock 1.0.3)
ReStock+ (ReStockPlus 1.0.3)
SCANsat (SCANsat v18.14)
scatterer (Scatterer 2:v0.0541)
Scatterer Default Config (Scatterer-config 2:v0.0541)
Scatterer Sunflare (Scatterer-sunflare 2:v0.0541)
ScienceAlert ReAlerted (ScienceAlert 1.9.8.6)
Show FPS (ShowFPS 1:0.2.1)
Smart Tank (SmartTank v0.4.0)
SpaceTux Library (SpaceTuxLibrary 0.0.2.3)
SpaceY Expanded (SpaceY-Expanded 1.4)
SpaceY Heavy Lifters (SpaceY-Lifters 1.17.2)
StageRecovery (StageRecovery 1.9.2.2)
Station Keeping (StationKeeping 1:0.2.2)
Station Science Continued (StationScienceContinued v2.6.0)
Strategia (Strategia 1.8.0)
TAC Fuel Balancer (TacFuelBalancer v2.21.5.1)
The Janitor's Closet (JanitorsCloset 0.3.7)
Toolbar (Toolbar 1:1.8.0.5)
Toolbar Controller (ToolbarController 1:0.1.9.4)
Trajectories (Trajectories v2.3.0)
Transfer Window Planner (TransferWindowPlanner v1.7.2.0)
TweakScale - Rescale Everything! (TweakScale v2.4.3.10)
UnKerballed Start (UnKerballedStart 1.1)
 

 

Probably need a log file to look into it further. Maybe also an indication of exactly what antenna you're using to test!

8 hours ago, Ruedii said:

Could we get 0.4688m and 0.3125m sized probe parts added to (very) late tech tree under new nodes labelled "micronization" and "additive-subtractive micro-construction" for basic probe design, and "micronized rocketry" for propulsion.

Nah. 

8 hours ago, jimmymcgoochie said:

The screenshot gallery has the CYL and DSK looking like I saw in-game, though having some parts of the probe cores foil-less is a bit odd. The RND silver foil is definitely not the same though, it's crinkly like the others in the album.

Not to me, and I work with spacecraft ;). 

[Crixomix]

58 minutes ago, Nertea said:

Probably need a log file to look into it further. Maybe also an indication of exactly what antenna you're using to test!

I tried multiple of the "antenna array boosters" and multiple of the "reflector" types, so I don't think it's part specific. However, in this case, I used AX-4s pointing into a RFL-1 dish reflector. 

Here's my log file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/o82t14e2vt0uyy6/KSP.log?dl=0

[Nertea]

27 minutes ago, Crixomix said:

I tried multiple of the "antenna array boosters" and multiple of the "reflector" types, so I don't think it's part specific. However, in this case, I used AX-4s pointing into a RFL-1 dish reflector. 

Here's my log file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/o82t14e2vt0uyy6/KSP.log?dl=0

Hmm. Something is breaking stuff. ModuleManager cache file please? This shows the state of the configs after all the patching is done.

[Crixomix]

22 minutes ago, Nertea said:

Hmm. Something is breaking stuff. ModuleManager cache file please? This shows the state of the configs after all the patching is done.

I hope this is what you want. Not really sure if this is the cache file or not. https://www.dropbox.com/s/wrx8dm8mv4khrd3/ModuleManager.log?dl=0

[Nertea]

2 minutes ago, Crixomix said:

I hope this is what you want. Not really sure if this is the cache file or not. https://www.dropbox.com/s/wrx8dm8mv4khrd3/ModuleManager.log?dl=0

Not quite. In GameData there should be a file called ModuleManager.ConfigCache that I am interested in. 

[Crixomix]

1 minute ago, Nertea said:

Not quite. In GameData there should be a file called ModuleManager.ConfigCache that I am interested in. 

Ah. Thanks for the guidance. Here it is! https://www.dropbox.com/s/p7umumj8a2ppjyn/ModuleManager.ConfigCache?dl=0 Sorry to bother you with basic troubleshooting

[Nertea]

10 minutes ago, Crixomix said:

Ah. Thanks for the guidance. Here it is! https://www.dropbox.com/s/p7umumj8a2ppjyn/ModuleManager.ConfigCache?dl=0 Sorry to bother you with basic troubleshooting

REPOSoftTech/ResearchBodies/ResearchBodiesMMRemoteTech/@PART[TrackBodiesTelescope]:FOR[RemoteTech] to REPOSoftTech/ResearchBodies/Parts/telescope/telescope.cfg/PART[TrackBodiesTelescope]

This seems to be the problem. Namely, this file declares that RemoteTech is installed, causing NFX to try to disable some features. I found this issue on the repo: https://github.com/JPLRepo/ResearchBodies/issues/48

Basically, this file needs to go and should be deleted from your install. You should be able to find it at REPOSoftTech/ResearchBodies/ResearchBodiesMMRemoteTech.cfg

Edited February 4, 2020 by Nertea

[Zorg]

That file has been wreaking havoc in various installs for quite a while  

[Shasol]

Was just playing around with the various reflector dishes, when I came across this little oddity.

The RFL-100 Giant Dish Reflector seems to be slightly out of alignment.

[Crixomix]

8 hours ago, Nertea said:

REPOSoftTech/ResearchBodies/ResearchBodiesMMRemoteTech/@PART[TrackBodiesTelescope]:FOR[RemoteTech] to REPOSoftTech/ResearchBodies/Parts/telescope/telescope.cfg/PART[TrackBodiesTelescope]

This seems to be the problem. Namely, this file declares that RemoteTech is installed, causing NFX to try to disable some features. I found this issue on the repo: https://github.com/JPLRepo/ResearchBodies/issues/48

Basically, this file needs to go and should be deleted from your install. You should be able to find it at REPOSoftTech/ResearchBodies/ResearchBodiesMMRemoteTech.cfg

Nertea, I can't thank you enough for figuring that out! To be fair, RemoteTech WAS installed, but I uninstalled it and the folders were gone so I imagined it wouldn't cause problems if it was gone. Guess that was a bad assumption haha.

Thanks again for helping!

[DeadJohn]

@NerteaThis is just an FYI. On ckan, most of your mods are listed as author "Nertea", while NF Exploration shows what I assume is your real name, Chris A. Everything works, it just makes it more likely for people to miss one of your great mods.

 

 

[Nertea]

4 hours ago, DeadJohn said:

@NerteaThis is just an FYI. On ckan, most of your mods are listed as author "Nertea", while NF Exploration shows what I assume is your real name, Chris A. Everything works, it just makes it more likely for people to miss one of your great mods.

 

 

I think I have not specified this in this mod, so I suppose CKAN guesses by looking at my git. I'll have a look. 

4 hours ago, Crixomix said:

Nertea, I can't thank you enough for figuring that out! To be fair, RemoteTech WAS installed, but I uninstalled it and the folders were gone so I imagined it wouldn't cause problems if it was gone. Guess that was a bad assumption haha.

Thanks again for helping!

No problem!

10 hours ago, Shasol said:

Was just playing around with the various reflector dishes, when I came across this little oddity.

The RFL-100 Giant Dish Reflector seems to be slightly out of alignment.

I'll check it out. 

On 2/3/2020 at 2:45 AM, SmarterThanMe said:

OK, reverted to stock because... Well...

 

Is this (the added range: <<1>> m) what is meant to come up in the info for the reflector dishes?

Install the latest version, there was a localization issue that was fixed. 

[lordcirth]

The LT-9 Nano Landing Leg is exactly the same mass as the stock LT-05 Micro - 15kg. Is this intended?

[Incarnation of Chaos]

On 2/3/2020 at 4:16 PM, Streetwind said:

Nuclear rockets operate by heating propellant running through it to crazy-high temperatures, created through radioactive decay. This brings with it certain quirks and problems, like how to properly turn it on and off - after all, the propellant flow is the only thing keeping the engine from melting itself to slag while the control rods are out...

The LV-N as it is ingame actually behaves nothing like a nuclear rocket at all. It behaves like a hydrazine monopropellant thruster with extremely unrealistic Isp and mass. Meaning, what you are asking of Nertea to implement is a RCS thruster running on liquid fuel with entirely handwaved, inexplicable performance characteristics.

Now, this might be something that Squad is okay with doing for the sake of ease of gameplay... but, I've known Nertea for a long time now. And he's definitely not okay with this sort of thing. At least not without some compromise (see: Kerbal Atomics/NF Electrical integration). This is a science game, we can do better than handwaving!

I know NERVA is supposed to be using LH2, and shouldn't be capable of instant throttling or instant throttle response. But that specific line is something iv'e come back and read about 3 times now, and couldn't figure out what you mean. The ISP of 800s should be in the ballpark for what we've achieved IRL (Though using LH2), and i don't have a clue of what the mass should be. I do know they changed it at some point for "Balance" reasons though.

 

[Streetwind]

@Incarnation of Chaos I wasn't saying that 800s Isp is unrealistic for a nuclear-thermal rocket. We have indeed achieved this IRL, in a multi-minute burn. I meant that it was unrealistic for a hydrazine monopropellant thruster, which is what the LV-N engine in KSP works like (especially when using the instant throttle up and throttle down keys).

I could mason up a wall of text about the differences in detail, but it's kinda off topic here. <_<;;

As for what stats the LV-N, or a hypothetical nuclear thermal RCS, would need to have to be "realistic"... the answer is "doesn't matter". It's not about performance, it's about the mode of operation that is not represented in KSP (and probably for good reasons). For gameplay purposes, the stats as they are now are okay, and that's what matters. But it's one thing to take a proven RL concept and simplify it for the sake of playability, and another to invent a device that could never, ever work IRL (like a nuclear thermal RCS system).

[Guest]

Actually, I can see an NTR RCS system working, however it would not be very simple. It's possible to pipe hot gas through the reactor, and then pipe it elsewhere on the ship, to be expelled through a nozzle. However, it requires the reactor to be already hot and running. In an NTR, that means it's thrusting, although bimodal/trimodal NTRs and normal power-producing reactors could support such a system constantly. At any rate, this relies on having a running nuclear reactor somewhere on the ship.

[Wyzard]

20 hours ago, Dragon01 said:

Actually, I can see an NTR RCS system working, however it would not be very simple. It's possible to pipe hot gas through the reactor, and then pipe it elsewhere on the ship, to be expelled through a nozzle. However, it requires the reactor to be already hot and running.

And at the cost of wasting propellant, the system could be used from a "cold start" by initially opening the RCS nozzles in balanced pairs that oppose each other, to carry heat away from the reactor (into space) while exerting no net force on the spacecraft.  Once there's enough propellant flow, perform the maneuver, then switch back to balanced flow for cooling while the reactor shuts down.

But yeah, nuclear RCS would be weird.  I suspect the above would probably waste more propellant in ramp-up and ramp-down than it would use productively for maneuvers.

[Guest]

The idea only makes sense for ships with a constantly running nuclear reactor (either a dedicated one, or a bimodal NTR). Without that, it wastes a lot of propellant.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Guest

[Crixomix]

Small idea for NF Exploration. Would it be a good idea to make the numbers displayed for the Antenna Reflectors use commas? Or some sort of "k/M/G" suffix? Because when I see 900000000 in that tiny little text in the VAB, it's quite difficult for me to read and try to figure out if that's 9 million or 90 million or 900 million, if that makes sense. I think a good improvement could be "900,000,000" or "900M". Maybe these aren't possible, but I thought I'd throw the idea out there.

Also, while I'm here, could you help me understand exactly what that number means? For example if I'm using a relay antenna part (let's say it's a 10k relay) aimed at a reflector that has a bonus of 1 million, does that just mean it adds 1 million to whatever value that part already has? To make it 1005k, in this example? 

Does that have anything to do with combinability? Or is it essentially like (ant1 + bonus) (assuming that's the formula) becomes the new value for antenna1, and combinability works as usual, but as if antenna1 has the bonus value? Hope this question is making sense... Thanks for reading.

[scottadges]

On 1/30/2020 at 12:19 PM, Invaderchaos said:

Now that is a thing of beauty! Can't wait to update my install to 1.8.1 and start using NF Exploration

Edited February 6, 2020 by scottadges

[Nertea]

3 hours ago, Crixomix said:

Small idea for NF Exploration. Would it be a good idea to make the numbers displayed for the Antenna Reflectors use commas? Or some sort of "k/M/G" suffix? Because when I see 900000000 in that tiny little text in the VAB, it's quite difficult for me to read and try to figure out if that's 9 million or 90 million or 900 million, if that makes sense. I think a good improvement could be "900,000,000" or "900M". Maybe these aren't possible, but I thought I'd throw the idea out there.

Also, while I'm here, could you help me understand exactly what that number means? For example if I'm using a relay antenna part (let's say it's a 10k relay) aimed at a reflector that has a bonus of 1 million, does that just mean it adds 1 million to whatever value that part already has? To make it 1005k, in this example? 

Does that have anything to do with combinability? Or is it essentially like (ant1 + bonus) (assuming that's the formula) becomes the new value for antenna1, and combinability works as usual, but as if antenna1 has the bonus value? Hope this question is making sense... Thanks for reading.

Yes this change is already implemented for 1.0.4.

You're correct, it's just an additive thing. It is separate from combinability. For calculating the total power, you use the same formulae, and merely swap out the antenna power with the buffed antenna power. 

On 2/5/2020 at 4:59 AM, Incarnation of Chaos said:

I know NERVA is supposed to be using LH2, and shouldn't be capable of instant throttling or instant throttle response. But that specific line is something iv'e come back and read about 3 times now, and couldn't figure out what you mean. The ISP of 800s should be in the ballpark for what we've achieved IRL (Though using LH2), and i don't have a clue of what the mass should be. I do know they changed it at some point for "Balance" reasons though.

 

If you want to get realistic, the LV-N is too heavy for the thrust, compared to the real thing so in a way it's underpowered. Yet, if we could get NTRs with the LV-N's specs in real life, we'd probably have built them already. Performance of 800s with storeable, dense propellants? Amazing! Part of the reason there's not a ton of NTR push, beyond political reasons, is that to use that magical 800-1000s, you need to use LH2. LH2 comes with tank mass ratio, volumetric and boiloff problems if you want to use it for a mission of any length, so you really cut into that specific impulse increase. When all is said and done, it doesn't roll up into the kind of delta-V advantage that it has in KSP. 

I think if you shove something LF-like through an NTR you get more like 500-600 seconds. So, perhaps 150% of a methane engine. Is that worth the complexity and political cost? Nah.

On 2/4/2020 at 9:20 PM, lordcirth said:

The LT-9 Nano Landing Leg is exactly the same mass as the stock LT-05 Micro - 15kg. Is this intended?

I mean, I know you're trying to be helpful, but obvious bugs are generally not intended. Thanks for letting me know, I'll reduce it to 5 kg or something in the next release.

[Invaderchaos]

3 hours ago, scottadges said:

Now that is a thing of beauty! Can't wait to update my install to 1.8.1 and start using NF Exploration

I just updated to 1.8 and I'm loving it! I even went back to that craft the moment I had my game loaded to see if the shaders were working(and to get a picture for my loading screens), and damn, does the new terrain look awesome!

[Crixomix]

2 hours ago, Nertea said:

You're correct, it's just an additive thing. It is separate from combinability. For calculating the total power, you use the same formulae, and merely swap out the antenna power with the buffed antenna power.

Sorry, but I still can't seem to figure this out. When combining a RA-X1 with the small reflector dish, I'm not getting expected numbers. 

RA-X1 has 24M power (JNSQ mod buffs antenna so this may be bigger than regular value). But the small dish says it has a power boost of 900,000,000 (900M). This would imply an RA-X1 pointing at a dish would then have 924M power. However, it only has 30.75M power. I'm definitely missing something but I'm not sure what. RA-X1 says it has a reflector buff of 6.75M, and then in the part it says something about "feed effectiveness 75%", which I'm also not sure where that 75% comes into the equation.

After typing all that out thinking I was terrible at maths, I rooted around in the parts CFG file and discovered that the "addedrange" is actually 9 million, not 900 million. So there's just a typo in the description  So then the phased relay is receiving 75% of the bonus (feed effectiveness), and 75% of 9 million is 6.75 million. It all makes sense now! 

EDIT: Also, the RA-X1 seems way overpowered for its weight/cost. Is there a typo in the actual part file? Is it supposed to be much much less relay power?

Edited February 7, 2020 by Crixomix

[Incarnation of Chaos]

2 hours ago, Nertea said:

If you want to get realistic, the LV-N is too heavy for the thrust, compared to the real thing so in a way it's underpowered. Yet, if we could get NTRs with the LV-N's specs in real life, we'd probably have built them already. Performance of 800s with storeable, dense propellants? Amazing! Part of the reason there's not a ton of NTR push, beyond political reasons, is that to use that magical 800-1000s, you need to use LH2. LH2 comes with tank mass ratio, volumetric and boiloff problems if you want to use it for a mission of any length, so you really cut into that specific impulse increase. When all is said and done, it doesn't roll up into the kind of delta-V advantage that it has in KSP. 

I think if you shove something LF-like through an NTR you get more like 500-600 seconds. So, perhaps 150% of a methane engine. Is that worth the complexity and political cost? Nah.

 

Yeah it's 3.5 tons @60kn which is extremely heavy for the thrust; though i was aware that's mostly for balance.

The idea that interested me the most was because we have materials that didn't exist in the 70's, so we could run the reactors hot enough to use NH4 or something similar that would decompose into it's constituant parts. NH4 is much denser than LH2, and nowhere near as deeply cryogenic.

I think the lack of development in NERVA has really hindered them; we have things like Raptor where the benefits of modern materials can be shown and are actually being used. But not for NERVA, and likely won't be since currently the Moon and Mars are our goals. Chemical propellents are enough to get us there, and much easier to manage. By the time we're looking at the outer solar system? I'd imagine we'd have fusion by then, and wouldn't even bother with NTR rockets.

[Nertea]

Yes more or less. Fusion or NEP, if we must go with fission.

NFExploration 1.0.4

• Fixed an issue where antenna reflector range was multiplied by 100 in the VAB info
• Reflector range extension is now done with SI prefixes (eg 5G, 10T, etc) instead of many zeroes
• Reduced mass of nano landing legs to 5kg from 15 kg
• Fixed the surface attach node of the RFL100 Giant Dish Reflector
• Fixed the normal map on the RND probe core's silver variant
• Fixed identical masses of all three phased arrays