Shpaget Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Bringing your oxygen only goes so far. You still need to remove all the CO2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevenperforce Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 8 minutes ago, Shpaget said: Bringing your oxygen only goes so far. You still need to remove all the CO2. What about the whole EDL process? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibb31 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 1 hour ago, sevenperforce said: And if they brought their own air, and figured out a way to remotely unberth? There is no way to unberth. The connections need to be closed from the active CBM. This is an exercice in futility. If the Soyuz are destroyed and vital ECLSS systems fail, there are redundant systems. If all redundant systems fail then no evacuation is possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HebaruSan Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 1 minute ago, Nibb31 said: There is no way to unberth. The connections need to be closed from the active CBM. This is an exercice in futility. If the Soyuz are destroyed and vital ECLSS systems fail, there are redundant systems. If all redundant systems fail then no evacuation is possible. But he's stipulating that "they [...] figured out a way to remotely unberth," so that objection can be taken as given. Unberthing and life support are a problem, the point is what other problems there might be. 3 hours ago, sevenperforce said: would a docked Dragon 1 be enough to get the crew home safely? That's a question about the re-entry and landing capabilities of the Dragon 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevenperforce Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 3 minutes ago, Nibb31 said: There is no way to unberth. The connections need to be closed from the active CBM. This is an exercice in futility. If the Soyuz are destroyed and vital ECLSS systems fail, there are redundant systems. If all redundant systems fail then no evacuation is possible. Then let's take the what-if out of the equation, and just ask the question. 38 minutes ago, HebaruSan said: But he's stipulating that "they [...] figured out a way to remotely unberth," so that objection can be taken as given. Unberthing and life support are a problem, the point is what other problems there might be. That's a question about the re-entry and landing capabilities of the Dragon 1. Exactly. Does anyone know whether the re-entry profile, thermal management, chute deployment acceleration, and splashdown speed are reasonably safe for one or more passengers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shpaget Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 2 hours ago, sevenperforce said: What about the whole EDL process? Honestly, I'm not familiar with the acronym and google is failing me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEpicSquared Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Shpaget said: Honestly, I'm not familiar with the acronym and google is failing me. Entry Descent Landing Also, regarding the issue of CO2 scrubbing, I'm assuming opening the hatch and depressurising the cabin wouldn't be a viable solution? Of course, the astronauts would be tied to the wall or something, with their EVA suits on Edited June 6, 2017 by TheEpicSquared Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shpaget Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Oh, I kept on searching EDL with oxygen, CO2 scrubber, life support and similar keywords. No wonder it didn't work. Anyway, according to this, Soyuz takes about three and a half hours to deorbit from undocking, with almost two and a half hours being spent on gaining some distance from the ISS, conceivably for safety. In the scenario of all hell breaking loose, we can probably cut that down almost completely, (decouple, get a few hundred meter separation, assume attitude and burn retrograde) which leaves us with just one hour for the actual deorbit and landing. If we assume similar timeline for Dragon, it might be survivable (as far as breathing goes). As for the descent profile and forces involved with deorbiting Dragon, I would guess it is within margins of survivability, after all, the general concept was designed with human rating in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSK Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 19 minutes ago, sevenperforce said: Then let's take the what-if out of the equation, and just ask the question. Exactly. Does anyone know whether the re-entry profile, thermal management, chute deployment acceleration, and splashdown speed are reasonably safe for one or more passengers? Not for certain but SpaceX have returned quite a bit of cargo from the ISS and I haven't seen any 'OMG SpaceX trashed our delicate science experiments' articles in the media, so I'm guessing splashdown would be passenger-tolerable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 19 minutes ago, sevenperforce said: Does anyone know whether the re-entry profile, thermal management, chute deployment acceleration, and splashdown speed are reasonably safe for one or more passengers? This. We know the Dragon can safely return 20 mice, and loft 40 (that's on the current cargo), so what's the limit? One human? A miniature horse? An unusually large lizard? A safari of pygmies from the African interior? 18 minutes ago, TheEpicSquared said: Entry Descent Landing Also, regarding the issue of CO2 scrubbing, I'm assuming opening the hatch and depressurising the cabin wouldn't be a viable solution? Of course, the astronauts would be tied to the wall or something, with their EVA suits on I don't think the hatch can be opened from the inside at all, especially when pressurized. Think Apollo 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibb31 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 12 minutes ago, CatastrophicFailure said: This. We know the Dragon can safely return 20 mice, and loft 40 (that's on the current cargo), so what's the limit? One human? A miniature horse? An unusually large lizard? A safari of pygmies from the African interior? Not known because it hasn't been studied. There is no point in studying it because it simply isn't going to happen. 12 minutes ago, CatastrophicFailure said: I don't think the hatch can be opened from the inside at all, especially when pressurized. Think Apollo 1. And you're not going to get the entire crew to wear EVA suits because there aren't enough of them, they need to be donned in the airlocks with help from a third person, you'd have trouble getting from the airlocks to the Dragon wearing them, and there is no way you are going to manipulate the CBM controls while wearing one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elthy Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 If i remember correctly Elon Musk himself stated that a reentry aboard a Dragon 1 is survivable (propably burried somewhere on Twitter). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StupidAndy Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 21 minutes ago, Elthy said: If i remember correctly Elon Musk himself stated that a reentry aboard a Dragon 1 is survivable (propably burried somewhere on Twitter). we're talking about the dragon that's going up to the station, that dragon right? if it wasn't then how would they reuse it? oh your talking HUMAN rated, ooooh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrandedonEarth Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 5 hours ago, Nibb31 said: No. Beyond the fact that it can't unberth (you need someone inside to close the CBM and use the Canadarm), there certainly isn't enough CO2 scrubbing inside to hold 6 people for several hours. Judging by the other replies, the EDL accelerations are okay. Surely CO2 scrubbers could be scavenged from somewhere, even an EVA suit. They could just stuff an empty or cut-down suit in if need be, that would at least slow down the CO2 buildup. As for unberthing, someone could sacrifice his/herself by remaining behind to unberth and save the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 (edited) 50 minutes ago, StrandedonEarth said: As for unberthing, someone could sacrifice his/herself by remaining behind to unberth and save the rest. This. In fact, if this were the movie it's increasingly sounding like, this would be the pivotal drama scene with lots of close ups of strained, sweaty faces, orders given and refused, and then the switcheroo right at the end with some emotional pounding on the window and two hands separated by a single pane of glass and a poignant one-liner, perhaps followed by a big "NOOOOO!" Edited June 6, 2017 by CatastrophicFailure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Apparently SpaceX is launching the X-37 in August according to Secretary Wilson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insert_name Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 50 minutes ago, tater said: Apparently SpaceX is launching the X-37 in August according to Secretary Wilson. source? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IncongruousGoat Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Just now, insert_name said: source? From the NBC: http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/06/spacex-launches-us-air-force-x-37b-space-plane.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 4 minutes ago, insert_name said: source? To be fair I attributed it to the Secretary of the Air Force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 Both people speaking from NM, BTW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YNM Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 So F9 is fully back on bussiness now ? Good to hear... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 2 hours ago, tater said: Apparently SpaceX is launching the X-37 in August according to Secretary Wilson. ULA must be ready to pop a space gasket about now. Is the X-37 still in F9πr^2 territory, or will it need a FH? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 It's just F9. It's only ~5,000kg. The F9 fairing is smaller on the outside, but slightly larger inside than Atlas (a few cm). I think being LV agnostic is a feature for X-37b, honestly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceception Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 7 minutes ago, CatastrophicFailure said: ULA must be ready to pop a space gasket about now. Is the X-37 still in F9πr^2 territory, or will it need a FH? That'll be a really cool launch to see, and because it'll be classified, we'll get that tracking camera all the way up again: D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nothalogh Posted June 7, 2017 Share Posted June 7, 2017 (edited) 36 minutes ago, CatastrophicFailure said: ULA must be ready to pop a space gasket about now. Time for them to step up, we all know they have it in them, they got fat and lazy though Edited June 7, 2017 by Nothalogh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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