Flying dutchman Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 Genuine question: Why couldn't n1 handle alle those engines close together, what where the failure points? What Will super heavy have to to different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 16 minutes ago, Flying dutchman said: What Will super heavy have to to different? Testing, for one thing. IIRC, most of N1’s problems were solvable, but it never saw any stand testing, only test flights... which are, er, considerably harder to recover articles from if something goes wrong. Now, Superheavy, it looks like, won’t be seeing any full-duration static fires either, but it has the advantage of several more decades of engineering experience to borrow from, massive improvements in computing power to better model engine dynamics in ways the soviets couldn’t even dream of, and it’s gonna be really, really cheap and fast to replace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 (edited) Quote What Will super heavy have to to different? Vastly superior everything, particularly computers. The computers are not just to control the engines—though that helps rather a lot—but also to model everything beforehand in a way that a room full of guys with slide rules just couldn't do. Edited May 21, 2021 by tater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beccab Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 19 minutes ago, Flying dutchman said: Genuine question: Why couldn't n1 handle alle those engines close together, what where the failure points? Many of the N1 failures were actually unrelated to the use itself of so many engines, and more about the lack of proper testing and badly programmed avionics, with on the top of that the fact that the engine wasn't much reliable. For example, a failure (I think the one with the biggest boom) was because when an engine in the first stage had problems its computer was programmed so that the solution was to *shut down every engine*. Obviously, after that the N1 crashed and made a big explosion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCgothic Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 They also couldn't test fire any of the actual engine flight articles for N1. They were one-use items. Individual engines were tested, but not any that would fly, and not any together. Raptor gets extensively prefired at McGregor before it ever gets near Starship/Superheavy. And whilst Superheavy won't have any *full duration* static fires before flight, we do still expect to see static fires. Plus modern computational fluid dynamics is *way* better than what they had in the 60s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codraroll Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 13 hours ago, magnemoe said: And all KSP players know the issues with this plan , they was ballistic missiles with an limited range of less than half the diameter of earth, they could not reach orbit and hitting the sun is hard, moon is much easier but also harder than orbit. Yes ICBM has been used for orbital missions but with smaller payloads. The alt-text of the original comic explains that the missiles were helped out of Earth's gravity well by strapping on extra boosters, developed for Amazon's same-day-delivery option for the Lunar colony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying dutchman Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 Thanks for the answers everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceFace545 Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 Thats really cool, I haven't seen much of the trunk being used yet. I assume the new iROSA panels are to supplement the aging current panels? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman.Spiff Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 10 minutes ago, tater said: Is that a connector for canadarm in there? I figure it’s to take the pallet out of the trunk. Just now, SpaceFace545 said: Thats really cool, I haven't seen much of the trunk being used yet. I assume the new iROSA panels are to supplement the aging current panels? Yes. Spoiler Good info in here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, Spaceman.Spiff said: Is that a connector for canadarm in there? I figure it’s to take the pallet out of the trunk. Yes to both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceFace545 Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 12 minutes ago, Spaceman.Spiff said: Is that a connector for canadarm in there? I figure it’s to take the pallet out of the trunk. and probably to do most of legwork to get the panels in the rough location Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 56 minutes ago, SpaceFace545 said: and probably to do most of legwork to get the panels in the rough location All the trunk caroges need to be grappled, then the arm can move them pretty much where they need to go. The arm system is pretty cool, albeit very, very expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCgothic Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 Launch integration tower is about to start growing pretty darn quick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubinator Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 Gonna have to make some changes to my Lego ISS model soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beccab Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 Which were the raptors to do the flip on SN15? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealKerbal3x Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 The question is: are they replacing the engines, or removing them entirely for detailed inspection? I guess we'll know soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Beccab said: Which were the raptors to do the flip on SN15? On the SpaceX vid, the engine in front that lit was #61. Not sure what the second one was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSchmuckatelli Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 Could SN 15's final flight be part of of the suborbital SH test? 'landing in the Pacific somewhere near Hawaii'? Or are they more likely to use one of the more recent SNs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealKerbal3x Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said: Could SN 15's final flight be part of of the suborbital SH test? 'landing in the Pacific somewhere near Hawaii'? Or are they more likely to use one of the more recent SNs? The test is orbital, just because it won't go all the way around the Earth doesn't mean it's suborbital. Starship will achieve orbital velocity. And SN15 doesn't have mounts for vacuum-optimised Raptors, a stage separation system, or a full heatshield. It's incapable of participating in the orbital test flight. The current plan is to use SN20, which will have the aforementioned features. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beccab Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 Oh and iirc SN20 parts have already been spotted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealKerbal3x Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Beccab said: Oh and iirc SN20 parts have already been spotted Yup, it looks at the moment like they'll be skipping right ahead to 20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman.Spiff Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 Oh wow 16 is already done? Also I wonder is they've been flying Raptors at 330 bar. We know it's been possible for a while, because SN39 (?) did it back in August. Was that just a one-time thing to get the world record or have they been taking advantage of the high performance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beccab Posted May 21, 2021 Share Posted May 21, 2021 7 minutes ago, Spaceman.Spiff said: Oh wow 16 is already done? It's been basically like that since before SN15 flew, but atm it's kind of on hold since they haven't mounted the covers on the flaps after more than two weeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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