Beccab Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 Just now, kerbiloid said: That's why we keep hearing only about the Musk's rockets, without further personal detalization. ...that's not what the post was saying though. Engineers at spacex are undeniably some of the best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 (edited) Or maybe some counter-ULA lobby group in the Congress pets a ULA-competitive company and kindly asks NASA to keep an eye on it and distribute contracts properly. And Musk is just a public figure. (Because I don't believe in the self-made men's kindness and romantic intentions, including the nonsense about Mars.) Edited June 8, 2021 by kerbiloid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 Just now, kerbiloid said: (Just because he is the brightest rocket specialist in his company.) Not true, they have a lot of really good people. Liftoff! by Berger is not much about Musk, it's about the rest of the Falcon 1 team. I think he drives things, and has them look at things in a novel way. Everything you hear about their internal workings is that they look at a given problem, and vote on it, if the majority thinks a certain solution seems like the right direction, they try it, then iterate. They end up trying loads of kooky stuff that doesn't make it. In terms of attracting people who are smart, this seems pretty ideal. People know that they can come up with a good idea and be listened to, and it can be tried, and validated or rejected and they move on. Working for a company that is just doing what they've always done certainly seems less interesting. <shrug> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 Just now, tater said: Not true, they have a lot of really good people. That's exactly what I mean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beccab Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 Just now, kerbiloid said: Or maybe some counter-ULA lobby group in the Congress pets a ULA-competitive company and kindly asks NASA to keep an eye on it and distribute contracts properly. And Musk is just a public figure. I believe it is like the third time you make this claim, could you please post any proof for this other than 'spacex bad'? And musk isn't just a public figure, although he is a public figure. He is also an engineer and usually knows what he is talking about in regards to rockets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 Just now, Beccab said: I believe it is like the third time you make this claim Why just third? I think so since the early SpaceX days, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 1 minute ago, kerbiloid said: Or maybe some counter-ULA lobby group in the Congress pets a ULA-competitive company and kindly asks NASA to keep an eye on it and distribute contracts properly. This is conspiracy level kooky, sorry. Congress if anything is not a fan. SpaceX is in 4 states, and the congresscritters in some of those states are not fans (which is bizarre, because jobs in home district). ULA in terms of the last USAF contracts got 60% of them to SpaceX getting 40%—and ULA doesn't even have the rocket they won with yet (Vulcan, vs Falcon 9). Just now, kerbiloid said: Why just third? I think so since the early SpaceX days, They got $360M from NASA. That was it. Chump change. Blue Origin literally got more money to write their HLS proposal than NASA gave SpaceX to dev the F9 and cargo Dragon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 1 minute ago, Beccab said: He is also an engineer He's not engineering there, he's trading. Just now, tater said: This is conspiracy level kooky, sorry. Compared to the Martian claims, nothing can be a conspiracy. 1 minute ago, tater said: Congress if anything is not a fan. I said "a lobbyist group", not the whole Congress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, kerbiloid said: That's exactly what I mean. He's the owner, and the public face of the company. He likes sharing what they are doing (twitter, etc). Most people are not going to know the names of other people at companies, just like they know Bezos, Gates, Jobs, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beccab Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 Just now, kerbiloid said: He's not engineering there, he's trading. He, quite literally, *is* an engineer there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 Just now, tater said: He's the owner, and the public face of the company. And the more properly the contracts get distributed, the more the proper company gains. Gates is a poor example at all. See his mom's wiki. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 Just now, kerbiloid said: Compared to the Martian claims, nothing can be a conspiracy. SpaceX people are serious about Mars. I'm not a colonize Mars person, but they really are. No kidding. You can chose not to believe it all you like, but it means any analysis of what they are doing you try will be wrong. Not thinking it will actually work/happen is a completely different argument. I can see all kinds of problems—but it being their goal is not in doubt. 1 minute ago, kerbiloid said: And the more properly the contracts get distributed, the more the proper company gains. What contracts? The entire world launch market is a joke. It's like $20B. If it was about money he'd put it all in Tesla. The auto industry is ~$2T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, tater said: SpaceX people are serious about Mars. I'm not a colonize Mars person, but they really are. No kidding. The people are. A self-made billionaire - highly unlikely. (Because they spend his money, while he... also spends his money) Edited June 8, 2021 by kerbiloid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 If SpaceX secured the entire launch market every year, and Musk got to personally keep 10%, it would take him 200 years to accumulate the amount he already has, lol. SpaceX is not about money. Really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 (edited) (mimja'd multipost) Edited June 8, 2021 by kerbiloid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 Just now, kerbiloid said: The people are. A self-made billionaire - highly unlikely. It's literally why he started SpaceX. It's not about money, SpaceX is a money loser, not a money maker in the long term (opportunity costs vs putting it in tesla). If you think it's about something that is "not Mars" show the business case. Should be trivial. How can he make "real money" launching stuff for people when the entire global launch market is ~20 days of Amazon revenue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, tater said: It's literally why he started SpaceX. It's not about money, SpaceX is a money loser, not a money maker in the long term (opportunity costs vs putting it in tesla). I wold believe that if not read about the Tesla and its practices. Two companies, but of the same man. No, I don't believe in romantic Musk. What he's doing, he's doing for money. Just the money can come in different ways. Edited June 8, 2021 by kerbiloid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 Whatever. I see Tesla as pretty astounding. New car companies in the US were simply not a thing, the entire business has been crooked since forever. Heck, GM couldn't manage to spin off a "new" car company that was just a division (Saturn). Tesla is now a real player in the US, and they don't even advertise. I haven't had a US car in decades, but I have a preorder in on a Cybertruck (though I'm sorta liking the new Bronco, it's not really available for at least a year except the preorders). Regardless, SpaceX exists to make Mars rockets. For people, etc. To colonize Mars. Kooky, but true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCgothic Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 131 busted: It's like AB1 or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beccab Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 (edited) Oh, could be the enchanced and non gimballing high thrust variant for Superheavy then. B could stand for Boost Edited June 8, 2021 by Beccab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealKerbal3x Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 (edited) 28 minutes ago, RCgothic said: It's like AB1 or something. 15 minutes ago, Beccab said: Oh, could be the enchanced and non gimballing high thrust variant for Superheavy then. B could stand for Boost Maybe RB1, which could stand for Raptor Boost 1. Edited June 8, 2021 by RealKerbal3x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomf Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 I think people who think spaceX is primarily about money are underestimating Musk's ambition. He is already rich, but he wants to be the man who Saves Mankind. In his mind Tesla will save mankind from global warming Space X will save mankind from asteroid strike etc. The ai company will save mankind from a rogue ai scenario. He was going to be the man to save the Thai boys. Even the boring company is supposed to save mankind from the tyranny of traffic. In most men this would be a Messiah delusion bordering on mental illness but through luck and skill Musk has got to a position where he has to be taken seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serenity Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 (edited) There is no such thing as enough money, thats the unfortunate glory of capitalism. We shouldn't be naive or over romantic, he is definitely manipulating and investing in this image of the savior of mankind. But is it him you should blame? He is determined and wants to achieve his known and unknown goals or at least get close to, he is trying to move giants obstacles around him to achieve his dreams, he is not gonna do it with only a '' i have a dream''. If you want to blame someone you should blame the system he is forced to work with and against. Edited June 8, 2021 by Serenity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 I think Musk sounds most sincere about Mars when he talks about why, and he dumps the "backup for humanity" stuff. He tends to simply admit he wants to have humans be multiplanetary because it's the cool future he wants to inhabit. I don't actually think it's more complex than that. This is the goal of Bezos as well. He makes different public statements regarding making Earth a better, safer, cleaner place to live, but I actually think both of them just want to live in a cool sci fi world. I'm happy there are people rich enough to be able to fund this privately, because any government model will never get there based on watching NASA closely for the last 3-4 decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceFace545 Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 8 hours ago, Beccab said: He is also an engineer Last time I checked, he isn't an engineer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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