totm nov 2023 SpaceX Discussion Thread

[magnemoe]

1 hour ago, tater said:

It's not landing horizontally.

This reentry it might behave like the shuttle but it will flip and land with engine power. 
That turnover or more correctly stall will be a bit hairy but they can use engines to help, max gimbal on the engine closest to the tail fin will add some torque, 

[wumpus]

14 hours ago, tater said:

[vehicle that looks suspiciously like a shuttle]

I think early shuttle wing designs looked more like an X-15, but there were some issues across the huge range of speeds the shuttle would encounter.  The biggest problem with copying the shuttle (and then doing a hoverslam) is changing direction: I don't think that is realistic at any speed.

Having the center of drag so far in front of the center of mass (assuming a propulsive landing) will stick out to Kerbal players.  Better make sure your grid fins have more drag than the tail fins and are way in the front or kiss stability (even computer assisted) goodbye.

[Rakaydos]

2 minutes ago, wumpus said:

I think early shuttle wing designs looked more like an X-15, but there were some issues across the huge range of speeds the shuttle would encounter.  The biggest problem with copying the shuttle (and then doing a hoverslam) is changing direction: I don't think that is realistic at any speed.

Having the center of drag so far in front of the center of mass (assuming a propulsive landing) will stick out to Kerbal players.  Better make sure your grid fins have more drag than the tail fins and are way in the front or kiss stability (even computer assisted) goodbye.

That's where the folding fins come in- they can tune the taildrag to balance horizontal during reentry, kill tail drag for the flip, then while the engiles are lit, lock s-foils in landing position.

[Xd the great]

1 minute ago, Rakaydos said:

That's where the folding fins come in- they can tune the taildrag to balance horizontal during reentry, kill tail drag for the flip, then while the engiles are lit, lock s-foils in landing position.

Lock s-foils. I like that. 

Or maybe increase the drag bu deploying feather reentry profile. Or two gridfins above the canards. Or rotate the cacards to increase drag.

[tater]

8 minutes ago, wumpus said:

I think early shuttle wing designs looked more like an X-15, but there were some issues across the huge range of speeds the shuttle would encounter.  The biggest problem with copying the shuttle (and then doing a hoverslam) is changing direction: I don't think that is realistic at any speed.

Having the center of drag so far in front of the center of mass (assuming a propulsive landing) will stick out to Kerbal players.  Better make sure your grid fins have more drag than the tail fins and are way in the front or kiss stability (even computer assisted) goodbye.

Yeah, that's an early concept. Some others:

http://www.pmview.com/spaceodysseytwo/spacelvs/sld024.htm

(note folded wings)

 

This GD design is very much a horizontal landing as just a lifting body:

 

 

[Rakaydos]

An interesting thought over at NSF concerning the BFR "petals"- When plumes from underexpended nozzles interact, there's blowback on the octoweb.

The petals could well be an additional vac nozzle for that blowback, which is strongest in vacuum, even without any actuation at all. But the pressures are low enough that it could actually be run as a variable geometry nozzle, giving altitude compensation all the way to orbit.

Also, if they could actuate it, pulling it right against the nozzles functions as debris shields.

[DAL59]

14 hours ago, sevenperforce said:

That's something completely different.

 

[Damien_The_Unbeliever]

I thought this was the Science and Spaceflight section of the forum. Where we'd only get reasoned opinions on things that can reasonably be specced out. Rather than people randomly speculating on future vessels. Why do I always have to wade through pages of people speculating about what SpaceX *might* do based on marketing materials rather than (as I'd expect here) people only talking about *proven* abilities. Seeing people randomly speculate at what SpaceX might do in the future is uninteresting to me. I want to find somewhere I can just find SpaceX **news** (and other providers) news. Where do I find that?

[cubinator]

8 minutes ago, Damien_The_Unbeliever said:

I want to find somewhere I can just find SpaceX **news** (and other providers) news. Where do I find that?

The official SpaceX Twitter is a good place to start.

[Mad Rocket Scientist]

19 minutes ago, Damien_The_Unbeliever said:

I thought this was the Science and Spaceflight section of the forum. Where we'd only get reasoned opinions on things that can reasonably be specced out. Rather than people randomly speculating on future vessels. Why do I always have to wade through pages of people speculating about what SpaceX *might* do based on marketing materials rather than (as I'd expect here) people only talking about *proven* abilities. Seeing people randomly speculate at what SpaceX might do in the future is uninteresting to me. I want to find somewhere I can just find SpaceX **news** (and other providers) news. Where do I find that?

You could try the NASASpaceFlight.com forums: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/

I don't have an account there, but they keep everything in separate threads. (For example, there's a thread for every launch with only news of that launch) There's probably still tons of speculation, but it's kept apart from news.

reddit.com/r/spacex is the other major fan site for SpaceX. It is larger, but suffers from the problems of reddit in general: threads aren't permanent, and what is popular and visible is not always what is interesting to you. There are some very high quality analyses of SpaceX stuff there every so often, but it's kind of quiet otherwise. The moderation there is in general of a higher quality than the rest of reddit too, although they seem to have been forced to back off from that slightly due to popular pressure, which is a bummer.

Finally, you could start a new thread here just for existing SpaceX systems analysis, although there's no guarantee that it will stay on topic. A bunch of threads in the Science and Spacelight section actually were originally part of this thread before the moderators split them off.

[Scotius]

32 minutes ago, Damien_The_Unbeliever said:

I thought this was the Science and Spaceflight section of the forum. Where we'd only get reasoned opinions on things that can reasonably be specced out. Rather than people randomly speculating on future vessels. Why do I always have to wade through pages of people speculating about what SpaceX *might* do based on marketing materials rather than (as I'd expect here) people only talking about *proven* abilities. Seeing people randomly speculate at what SpaceX might do in the future is uninteresting to me. I want to find somewhere I can just find SpaceX **news** (and other providers) news. Where do I find that?

It is the forum of a game about little green aliens exploring their little planetary system. Why are you surprised discussion here is on the casual side?

[Ultimate Steve]

38 minutes ago, Damien_The_Unbeliever said:

I thought this was the Science and Spaceflight section of the forum. Where we'd only get reasoned opinions on things that can reasonably be specced out. Rather than people randomly speculating on future vessels. Why do I always have to wade through pages of people speculating about what SpaceX *might* do based on marketing materials rather than (as I'd expect here) people only talking about *proven* abilities. Seeing people randomly speculate at what SpaceX might do in the future is uninteresting to me. I want to find somewhere I can just find SpaceX **news** (and other providers) news. Where do I find that?

We are not, for the most part, randomly speculating. We are making logical guesses based on the material that has been released to us. Sometimes those discussions get too wild (I think we have a BFR specific thread) but if we are discussing SpaceX then it is only natural to discuss what may be coming in the future.

A good source for just news with a little bit of speculation is /r/spacex. There is also /r/spacexlounge because the mods at /r/spacex remove literally everything not on topic. For memes there is /r/spacexmasterrace.

[Mitchz95]

Hopefully BFR will finally get a proper name this time around. The constantly-changing acronyms are getting old.

Edited September 15, 2018 by Mitchz95

[cubinator]

Only 47 hours left! The rocket groups here are naturally organizing a viewing party in the Aerospace building.  

[tater]

5 hours ago, Damien_The_Unbeliever said:

I thought this was the Science and Spaceflight section of the forum. Where we'd only get reasoned opinions on things that can reasonably be specced out. Rather than people randomly speculating on future vessels. Why do I always have to wade through pages of people speculating about what SpaceX *might* do based on marketing materials rather than (as I'd expect here) people only talking about *proven* abilities. Seeing people randomly speculate at what SpaceX might do in the future is uninteresting to me. I want to find somewhere I can just find SpaceX **news** (and other providers) news. Where do I find that?

The SpaceX thread would be full of images of boosters being moved, static fires, etc, if there were any.

The next launch is in October, so there will be no other "news" at all until then... except BFR speculation fueled by the new render. It's not like it's a fan render, the image is of what they are currently working on. We've seen the mandrel, they have a facility, and people are apparently driving there to work, so I will assume that it's being worked on, just as I assume NG is being worked on by BO.

I presume that you then only find NG discussions a waste of time, and all Blue Origin discussions should be about NS flights? The same with SLS, since nothing about that is "proven," either?

[tater]

I'd add that to be fair, the most popular thread at NSF right now is (unsurprisingly) the thread speculating about the changes to BFR.

[Xd the great]

5 hours ago, Mitchz95 said:

Hopefully BFR will finally get a proper name this time around. The constantly-changing acronyms are getting old.

I think the rockets with stick to BFR, because big f****** rocket.

Still, individual rockets may get names, like the apollo command modules being called snoopy?

[NSEP]

Elon hinted the tourist could be from Japan. 

 

Japanese Billionaire Yusaku Meazawa said he had something 'big' to announce in mid-september.

Ladies and gentlemen, we got him.

[Frozen_Heart]

16 hours ago, Mitchz95 said:

Hopefully BFR will finally get a proper name this time around. The constantly-changing acronyms are getting old.

What you not a fan of constantly trying to juggle BFR, BFS, ITS, MCT, and god knows what else?

[kerbiloid]

Spoiler

BFR = Be-eF-eR = Beefer

 

24 minutes ago, Frozen_Heart said:

What you not a fan of constantly trying to juggle BFR, BFS, ITS, MCT, and god knows what else?

Personally I like such abbreviatures very much. They sound tough, rather than toyish names,

Also I don't understand why they don't use numbers in country names.

[monophonic]

17 hours ago, Mitchz95 said:

Hopefully BFR will finally get a proper name this time around. The constantly-changing acronyms are getting old.

"The constantly-changing acronym" would fit in the Culture names theme SpaceX has had going with the barges pretty well. I like that!

31 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

Also I don't understand why they don't use numbers in country names.

Because when they do... third reich.

[kerbiloid]

Spoiler

Next modification of BFR -  BMFR.
("M" - for modified, as you see)

Next modification of BFS -  BONG (Big Orbiter Next Generation)

 

[Xd the great]

A block 2,3,4,5, or even 10 will be made

[tater]

 

[Elthy]

Wow, thats amazing. Even the engine section looks like it needs a good scrub and is as good as new...