SPACE SHUTTLES (Launch or SSTO)

[Raptor9]

3 hours ago, Andetch said:

In re-reading Raptor's comments it makes me think.... The US Shuttle always rolled over on launch, no? I wonder if this is to do with the mass moving etc?

IIRC it was to put it in a better orientation to return to the launch site in the case of an abort glide back.  But I could be wrong. 

Edited August 20, 2017 by Raptor9

[Alpha_Gametauri]

I think it was for better orientation for the gravity turn and it was more even, idk.

[Andetch]

Who knows other than the crew eh.... What I do know is balancing a ride along design is hard.

I will experiment with the original design, but with a few boosters on top to counter the nose up.... maybe? Is ksp so we shall see!

[septemberWaves]

Another thing which may help in some cases is to put a low-mass probe core inside a service/cargo bay somewhere on the vehicle, and angle it in such a way that the thrust vector near the end of the launch profile (around the point of circularization) points in the same direction that the probe core is facing. Depending on shuttle layout this may or may not be helpful, but in a lot of cases it can be particularly if you're using an STS-like engine layout wherein the main engines are used for circularizing and the OMS engines are pointing in a different direction to the main engines.

[Alpha_Gametauri]

Thankfully, i have my OMS engines positioned in a way where i don't really need to add any special stuff. Just wish i didn't have to flip around to slow for a Space Station docking or a Satellite/Space Telescope servicing.

[ExplorerKlatt]

20 hours ago, Raptor9 said:

IIRC it was to put it in a better orientation to return to the launch site in the case of an abort glide back.  But I could be wrong. 

During the launch of a space shuttle, the roll program was simultaneously accompanied by a pitch maneuver and yaw maneuver.^[2]

The roll program occurred during a shuttle launch for the following reasons:

• To place the shuttle in a heads down position
• Increasing the mass that can be carried into orbit
• Increasing the orbital altitude
• Simplifying the trajectory of a possible Return to Launch site abort maneuver
• Improving radio line-of-sight propagation
• Orienting the shuttle more parallel toward the ground with the nose to the east

From Here

[AeroGav]

My latest attempt at a shuttle system.      Self imposed rule, no jet engines.   I'm very happy with the orbiter but the booster system was problematic.   You need to control the TWR when you have wings on , especially when those wings have built in incidence and never stop lifting, or you'll just fly loops.    

To do - the mk1 bicouplers are horribly draggy.  I'd be better off using radial decoupler for second engine.    

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kmb0b7gqauoomwe/STARSWIFT2.craft?dl=0

With over 3000dv once in orbit, you can take it to these sort of places, and probably further 

 

[selfish_meme]

One of the big things no one takes into account when building STS shutlles is the SRB's

Quote

Thrust	12,500 kN (2,800,000 lbf) each, sea level liftoff
Specific impulse	269 seconds (2.64 km/s)
Burn time	124 s
Fuel	Solid (Ammonium perchlorate composite propellant)
First stage - Orbiter plus External Tank
Engines	3 SSMEs located on Orbiter
Thrust	5,250 kN (1,180,000 lbf) total, sea level liftoff

So 83% of the sea level thrust came from the SRB's, our replica STS-88 here has about 16 SRB's, and this was for a Kerbal Scale ISS build replica, not an RSS size build.

[septemberWaves]

14 hours ago, selfish_meme said:

So 83% of the sea level thrust came from the SRB's

A big difference in KSP is that the stock solid rocket motors are pathetically weak in terms of thrust compared to real ones. Which is also important to take into account when building space shuttles in an STS-like configuration.

[GRYPHUS-01]

Hey there, new to Ksp. Justed wanted to show my very first shuttle. A replica of the Challenger space shuttle. Buildt with minimal mods. Only The internal docking port mount is from Planetary Base Inc. mod and the boosters are from KwrocketryRedux along with the uncolored fuel tank. although its perfectly possible to replace both with stock parts, just not suiting as good as these. Flies really stable. Let me know if you like it and i'll see wether i can share the craft file using dropbox for those who wish to have a copy.

[Alpha_Gametauri]

@selfish_meme I'm going to guess that Shuttle mod is Cormorant Aeronology. But what is the decal on the wings and the launch pad stuff?

@GRYPHUS-01 Pics?

[selfish_meme]

55 minutes ago, Alpha_Gametauri said:

@selfish_meme I'm going to guess that Shuttle mod is Cormorant Aeronology. But what is the decal on the wings and the launch pad stuff?

@GRYPHUS-01 Pics?

Stock, I used a module manager script to change the fairing texture, and NEBULA decals for the decals, I had to make the decals. The Launchpad comes from The real KSC in KSP mod, and the Mobile Launch Platform was from an old mod that I hacked to sit underneath the shuttle that was actually mounted on stock launch clamps. You can download and fly that shuttle in stock from the links I provided.

This is another view I used for comparison to an actual photo for accuracy

Edited August 25, 2017 by selfish_meme

[qzgy]

8 hours ago, GRYPHUS-01 said:

Hey there, new to Ksp. Justed wanted to show my very first shuttle. A replica of the Challenger space shuttle. Buildt with minimal mods. Only The internal docking port mount is from Planetary Base Inc. mod and the boosters are from KwrocketryRedux along with the uncolored fuel tank. although its perfectly possible to replace both with stock parts, just not suiting as good as these. Flies really stable. Let me know if you like it and i'll see wether i can share the craft file using dropbox for those who wish to have a copy.

 

Yeah, pics aren't showing. Upload them to an image hosting website (Imgur is very popular - free, no account needed) and then copy the direct image link and stick that in your post. Usually ends with .png or .jpg.

[GRYPHUS-01]

hmm well i placed them now on imgur, strange why pics werent shown here...

Anyhow here they are!

 

Edited August 25, 2017 by GRYPHUS-01

[Alpha_Gametauri]

@GRYPHUS-01 Looks pretty dang close to my design, though i don't know how you get the AoA in re-entry without summersaulting and either fly backwards or flatspin into the ground.

[selfish_meme]

12 minutes ago, Alpha_Gametauri said:

@GRYPHUS-01 Looks pretty dang close to my design, though i don't know how you get the AoA in re-entry without summersaulting and either fly backwards or flatspin into the ground.

Clip a couple of rudders upside down just inside the bottom hull, as long as they poke out just a little they will work and keep your shuttle from spinning and provide needed drag at the tail. You can see them in my build. Also if you use two tail sections merged together and have the control surfaces split in either direction for a rear air brake.

 

Edited August 25, 2017 by selfish_meme

[GRYPHUS-01]

4 hours ago, selfish_meme said:

Clip a couple of rudders upside down just inside the bottom hull, as long as they poke out just a little they will work and keep your shuttle from spinning and provide needed drag at the tail. You can see them in my build. Also if you use two tail sections merged together and have the control surfaces split in either direction for a rear air brake.

 

Which i actually did to include a airbrake that didnt look like the stock airbrake. forgot to make a pic of that one haha. Just added it to the imgur list. might need to visit at site self.

Edited August 26, 2017 by GRYPHUS-01
Embedded Imgur updated to include new picture.

[GRYPHUS-01]

43 minutes ago, Alpha_Gametauri said:

@GRYPHUS-01 Looks pretty dang close to my design, though i don't know how you get the AoA in re-entry without summersaulting and either fly backwards or flatspin into the ground.

what can i say, all i ever payed attention to was that CoT and CoM ( centers of thrust and mass) where alligned. can you try to make a picture of your design in VAB with all indicators on? and without its boosters/tanks/cargo? you basically want to simulate its state for landing.

[qzgy]

50 minutes ago, Alpha_Gametauri said:

@GRYPHUS-01 Looks pretty dang close to my design, though i don't know how you get the AoA in re-entry without summersaulting and either fly backwards or flatspin into the ground.

Or clip a couple fuel tanks in the front, and transfer excess fuel to there. Ore tanks, just hard ballast, could work too.

[Alpha_Gametauri]

4 hours ago, GRYPHUS-01 said:

what can i say, all i ever payed attention to was that CoT and CoM ( centers of thrust and mass) where alligned. can you try to make a picture of your design in VAB with all indicators on? and without its boosters/tanks/cargo? you basically want to simulate its state for landing.

I would, but my laptop is broken when it comes to the F keys on KSP. Gotta wait for my new PC.

[GRYPHUS-01]

3 minutes ago, Alpha_Gametauri said:

I would, but my laptop is broken when it comes to the F keys on KSP. Gotta wait for my new PC.

Then why not send the entire craft file? then il work a fix for it out.

[Alpha_Gametauri]

2 minutes ago, GRYPHUS-01 said:

Then why not send the entire craft file? then il work a fix for it out.

Alright, give me a bit. Ksp version 1.3, Mechjeb and Near Future electrical and Hullcam VDS mods are on the shuttle, should i remove them and make it completely stock?

Edited August 26, 2017 by Alpha_Gametauri

[GRYPHUS-01]

i only have mechjeb. unless the parts of those mod run through  the entire ship? if its just one or two parts make it stock then. as long as the framework and engines are unmodded its ok, else i gotta download that too

 

[Alpha_Gametauri]

19 minutes ago, GRYPHUS-01 said:

i only have mechjeb. unless the parts of those mod run through  the entire ship? if its just one or two parts make it stock then. as long as the framework and engines are unmodded its ok, else i gotta download that too

 

K, i'll just have Mechjeb on it. FYI, i have to rebuild the Shuttle since i got angry and deleted it, but i remember exactly how it was built.

[Alpha_Gametauri]

1 hour ago, GRYPHUS-01 said:

i only have mechjeb. unless the parts of those mod run through  the entire ship? if its just one or two parts make it stock then. as long as the framework and engines are unmodded its ok, else i gotta download that too

 

I finished rebuilding the Shuttle, what now? How do i share it?

Edited August 26, 2017 by Alpha_Gametauri