Chinese Space Program (CNSA) & Ch. commercial launch and discussion

[Minmus Taster]

 

[DDE]

https://t.me/grimdarknessoffarspace/1919

Does the Chang'e RV look suspiciously like a Kerbal-sized Soyuz to anyone?

[AckSed]

That is where they got the original design from, but it's like Soyuz 2.0:

 

[DDE]

SVOM's booster returns the usual way

https://t.me/RingsandMoons/8257

https://t.me/RingsandMoons/8258

[DDE]

Chang'e 6, on scope

https://t.me/kiam_ison_network/201

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

Monday afternoon, several videos had been removed from Chinese social media platforms.

 

Eyewitness accounts shared on social media described hearing a loud explosion upon impact, with one witness telling CNN they saw the rocket fall with their own eyes. They described experiencing a pungent odour and hearing the sound of the explosion afterwards

~MSN article with absurdly long link ~

[darthgently]

4 hours ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Monday afternoon, several videos had been removed from Chinese social media platforms.

 

Eyewitness accounts shared on social media described hearing a loud explosion upon impact, with one witness telling CNN they saw the rocket fall with their own eyes. They described experiencing a pungent odour and hearing the sound of the explosion afterwards

~MSN article with absurdly long link ~

What nonsense are you speaking, man?  That is misinformation.  Never happened.  Move along

[Ultimate Steve]

China attempted to beat the static fire altitude record today:

Tianlong 3 attempted a static fire but evidently someone didn't do their job properly.

US still holds the record though, a 1952 Viking test at White Sands Missile Range accidentally took off during a static fire and ended up about 4 miles downrange after about 2 minutes of flight, so it was almost certainly higher than this.

 

[AckSed]

Petition to mod in Jiang Kerbin, the daredevil who thinks static-fire hold-downs are suggestions.

[darthgently]

2 hours ago, AckSed said:

Petition to mod in Jiang Kerbin, the daredevil who thinks static-fire hold-downs are suggestions.

Jiang Kerman, right? Lol, good one

[biohazard15]

3 hours ago, Ultimate Steve said:

Tianlong 3 attempted a static fire but evidently someone didn't do their job properly.

US still holds the record though, a 1952 Viking test at White Sands Missile Range accidentally took off during a static fire and ended up about 4 miles downrange after about 2 minutes of flight, so it was almost certainly higher than this.

Seems somebody forgot to check where are their launch clamps in the staging order. Happens to all of us from time to time.

[darthgently]

On 6/30/2024 at 9:22 AM, biohazard15 said:

Seems somebody forgot to check where are their launch clamps in the staging order. Happens to all of us from time to time.

Scott Manley in recent vid presented some convincing observations that the clamps were neither released nor failed, but rather the rocket parts they attach to failed

[sevenperforce]

12 minutes ago, darthgently said:

Scott Manley in recent vid presented some convincing observations that the clamps were neither released nor failed, but rather the rocket parts they attach to failed

you had one job

[magnemoe]

23 hours ago, darthgently said:

Scott Manley in recent vid presented some convincing observations that the clamps were neither released nor failed, but rather the rocket parts they attach to failed

Ellie in space said they used the test stand for their smaller rocket who makes no sense as the hole would be far to small. You need an hole large enough for the engine but not larger than diameter of rocket so you can clamp it down. 
Now it could be an rebuild of the test stand if they know they would not launch the smaller rocket anymore who is weird as it works while the larger is in under development. 

I agree that its most likely something on the rocket who broke. Its the place you want to save weight after all, weight of test stand just cost steel. Also that it ripping loose damaged the engine bay.
Guess is that they calculated it for a fully fueled rocket with second stage and payload, this was probably not fully fueled either. 

Now an static fire who ended up as an unplanned flight is scary, how would the control systems react to this? No trajectory would be planned so I guess default is just keeping rocket staple pointing up? 
I assume radio to the rocket as you could easy end up doing damage to test stand and loosing data links. 
Guess none thought of this problem. 

It also answer an question I had about Starship and probably some other rockets with many hold down clamps, what is one does not release? Then it breaks without changing rocket trajectory. 
Its probably more dangerous with few clamps, if you have 3 and one fails it could hold down the rocket for some time before failing. 

Edited July 2 by magnemoe

[Exoscientist]

 Is China planning to weaponize the Moon?

https://youtu.be/eElDqTNe4oE?si=hv8Y3tgo9gBDfbF_

 China wants to build a 1 megawatt nuclear reactor on the Moon, 10 times the size the U.S. is planning on. Why? Evidence suggests it’s for their electromagnetic launcher they want to use for sending resources from the Moon to Earth. 

 This is analogous to the SpinLaunch™ being constructed on Earth for reducing the cost to LEO. But on the Moon with no atmosphere and much reduced gravity it can send the payload all the way to lunar orbit and even all the way to Earth. Being just electrically powered the launches will be at just the cost of generating the electricity.

 But it needs to be kept in mind it could send anything, anywhere on the surface of Earth. When you realize the Chinese space program is just an off-shoot of their military the possibility arises it could be used as a weapon.

 “Mr. President, we must not ALLOW a spin launch gap!”
 (With apologies to “Dr. Strangelove”.)

    Bob Clark

[Codraroll]

6 hours ago, Exoscientist said:

Is China planning to weaponize the Moon?

Betteridge's Law of Headlines strikes again.

If they were, there'd be better sources than a clickbait video on YouTube.

[darthgently]

2 hours ago, Codraroll said:

Betteridge's Law of Headlines strikes again.

If they were, there'd be better sources than a clickbait video on YouTube.

Well, there is Bill Nelson also

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/space/china-rejects-nasa-accusation-will-take-moon-rcna36656

 

[Exoscientist]

AUGUST 26, 2024
China proposes magnetic launch system for sending resources back to Earth
by Matt Williams, Universe Today
https://phys.org/news/2024-08-china-magnetic-resources-earth.html

 The problem is even if publicly it is described as merely a transport method from the Moon to the Earth, any other country has to regard it as potentially an indefensible weapon because due to the long distance from the Moon to the Earth even a deviation in pointing of a fraction of a degree could result in its landing point instead of being over the ocean winds up being over a city.

 By the way, I like the mention in this article of the Robert Heinlein novel, The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress, which first described the idea of projectiles being shot from the Moon to the Earth as a weapon.

   Bob Clark

[tater]

 

[AckSed]

Very Iron Man. "OK, cut the power."

[magnemoe]

On 9/22/2024 at 5:24 PM, AckSed said:

Very Iron Man. "OK, cut the power."

Ran out of power some times like that in KSP. Once on Tylo the rocket was totally destroyed but the probe rover on top was unharmed. Kept the decopler on its bottom as an trophy. 

[DAL59]

Lunar spacesuits revealed:

 

[DAL59]

Chinese moon rover

[AckSed]

(Thank Scott Manley for pointing this out.)

Reentry capsules are not new (e.g. pre-digital spy satellites that dropped film capsules), but doing the Varda Space thing and making it a cheaper way to bring experiments back from orbit? That's more novel.

https://spacenews.com/shijian-19-reusable-satellite-lands-after-2-weeks-in-space/

[DAL59]

Since the blackout:
-China says crewed landing could occur as early as 2027

-China has planned out their space exploration to 2050

-Highlights include Xray and gravitational wave astronomy, studying the effects of climate change, tidal forces, and the sun on Earth, more missions to Mars and outer planets, and a Venus sample return (!)

Spoiler

Jointly released by the Chinese Academy of Sciences and the National Space Administration of China Manned Space Engineering Office

October 2024

 

In order to implement the spirit of the 20th National Congress of the Communist Party of China and the Second and Third Plenary Sessions of the 20th Central Committee of the Communist Party of China, promote the all-round development of space science, space technology and space applications, this plan is formulated as a basis for guiding the deployment of my country's space science tasks and conducting space science research in the current and future period.

1. Development Goals

1. Overall Objectives

We will plan and demonstrate the implementation of national space science missions in stages, coordinate and strengthen mission-driven basic research, build a high-level talent team for space science, continuously achieve landmark original results with significant international influence, realize high-quality development of space science, drive innovative breakthroughs in space technology, promote the upgrading of space applications, rank among the world's top countries, and become a space science power.

2. Phased goals

Until 2027

——The level of scientific research has achieved an overall leap forward, and world-class results have been continuously achieved in disciplines with a solid foundation and advantages, such as high-energy time-domain astronomy, solar-Earth connection, the origin and evolution of the moon and Mars, microgravity physics and space life.

- Demonstrate the implementation of a number of space science missions, including 5 to 8 space science missions in the scientific frontiers of dark matter and extreme universe, gravitational waves, protostellar clouds, exoplanets, solar activity, solar system and Earth system exploration, including 2 to 3 large-scale missions that are expected to produce significant landmark results.

——Important progress has been made in building a new pattern of space development, a group of "leaders" and "pioneers" in the field of space science have been cultivated, the construction of the talent team has reached a new level, and the international status and influence have been continuously enhanced.

2028-2035

——Key areas are at the forefront internationally. Clusters of major original achievements have emerged in the areas of medium and low frequency gravitational waves, the dark age of the universe, the discovery of habitable Earth-like planets, solar activity, Earth system response, in situ resource utilization on the moon, indicators of life on Mars, black holes and neutron stars, dark matter and dark energy. These achievements are an important sign that my country has become one of the most innovative countries in the world.

- Deploy and implement a series of space science missions. In such scientific frontiers as the early universe, new physics of extreme bodies, habitable exoplanets nearby, early solar system archaeology, the search for extraterrestrial life, solar eruptions and coronal heating mechanisms, and exploration of the solar system's margins, the demonstration and implementation of about 15 space science missions, including 4 to 5 large missions.

——Achieve comprehensive development of my country’s space science, space technology, and space applications, form a comparative advantage in talent competition in the field of space science, and ensure that the country’s strategic talent and leading talent team are among the best in the world.

2036-2050

- Leading the world in important fields and becoming a world power in space science. We will achieve revolutionary breakthroughs in basic research in the origin and evolution of the universe, the nature of space and time, the origin of the solar system and life, and manned deep space exploration, thus expanding the boundaries of human knowledge and promoting the progress of human civilization.

——Leading the development direction of world space science, demonstrating and implementing more than 30 space science missions, and possessing core competitiveness and strong leadership in the new round of scientific and technological revolution.

——Gather a team of top international scientific talents, build a major world space science center and innovation center, and become an important symbol of a socialist modern power.

II. Priority Development Directions

Facing the world's frontiers of space science and major national strategic needs, and based on my country's existing advantages and characteristics in disciplines, talent pool, and engineering technology, we have condensed and formed five major scientific themes and their priority development directions in which my country is expected to make breakthroughs.

"Extreme Universe" theme. Explore the origin and evolution of the universe and reveal the physical laws under extreme cosmic conditions. Priority development directions include dark matter and extreme universe, origin and evolution of the universe and detection of cosmic baryonic matter. Major scientific issues to be solved include the nature of dark matter particles and the source of high-energy radiation in the universe, the nature of dark energy, dynamic cosmic detection and the physical mechanism of transient sources, the dark age of the universe and the history of reionization, the origin and evolution of stars and planetary systems, and the circulation and feedback of baryonic matter.

Theme of "Ripples in Spacetime". Detect medium and low frequency gravitational waves and primordial gravitational waves to reveal the nature of gravity and spacetime. The priority development direction is space gravitational wave detection. Major scientific problems to be solved include the formation of supermassive black holes and seed black holes and their co-evolution with host galaxies, the fine structure of strong gravitational fields near black holes and the distribution and physical properties of compact celestial bodies, and the verification of early cosmological models.

Theme of "Sun-Earth Panorama". Explore the Earth, the Sun and the heliosphere, and reveal the physical processes and laws of the complex system of the Sun and the Earth, and the overall connection between the Sun and the solar system. Priority development directions include the Earth's circulation system, comprehensive observation of the Earth and the Moon, space weather detection, stereoscopic solar detection and outer heliosphere detection. Major scientific problems to be solved include the characteristics of solar magnetic activity and the origin mechanism of magnetic cycles, the three-dimensional propagation and evolution of solar wind disturbances, the mechanism of cross-scale energy transmission and dissipation between the solar wind and magnetosphere, the coupling of magnetosphere, ionosphere and thermosphere, cross-scale interactions among multiple spheres of the Earth system, and the processes and mechanisms of solar wind-interstellar medium interactions.

Theme of "habitable planets". Explore the habitability of solar system bodies and exoplanets, and conduct extraterrestrial life exploration. Priority development directions include sustainable development, solar system archaeology, planetary sphere characterization, extraterrestrial life exploration and exoplanet detection. Major scientific issues to be solved include deep lunar material, sphere structure and early impact history, origin and evolution of asteroids/comets, evolution of Mars' habitable environment and life signals, interaction between solar wind and Jupiter's magnetosphere, detection of habitable environment and life signals of icy satellites and ice giants, habitability and life characteristics of exoplanets, etc.

The theme of "Studying Things in Space". Reveal the laws of material movement and life activities under space conditions, and deepen the understanding of basic physics such as quantum mechanics and general relativity. Priority development directions include microgravity science, quantum mechanics and general relativity, and space life science. Major scientific problems to be solved include the basic theory of complex fluid physics under the new system of microgravity multi-process coupling, quantum effects in gravitational fields, high-precision verification of general relativity and exploration of new physics, and the adaptability and survival strategies of Earth life in the space environment.

3. Development Roadmap

Centering on five major scientific themes and focusing on priority development directions, we propose scientific mission plans to be implemented in three stages: 2027, 2028-2035, and 2036-2050, to form a roadmap for the development of my country's space science by 2050.

In the first phase, by 2027, the Chinese space station will be put into operation, and manned lunar exploration, the fourth phase of the lunar exploration project and the planetary exploration project will be implemented, with a number of original results with important international influence.

Select 2 to 3 large tasks from the mission directions such as space X-ray and other multi-band coordinated observations, X-ray hot baryon detection, space gravitational wave detection pathfinder, solar polar orbit detection, etc.; select 3 to 5 small and medium-sized and opportunistic tasks from the mission directions such as dark matter particle detection, space terahertz high-speed imaging survey, space ultra-long wave observation, space infrared observation, hidden natural object detection, transparent ocean constellation, all-weather three-dimensional wind observation, Earth radiation energy budget detection, Earth magnetosphere cross-scale constellation, Sun-Earth L5 point solar detection, space-based solar radio array observation, fine observation of human activity traces, global vegetation biomass spatiotemporal pattern, Jupiter system observation, exoplanet detection, etc.

The second phase, from 2028 to 2035, aims to achieve world-leading original results through the implementation of the first phase missions. The Chinese space station will be operated, and scientific missions such as manned lunar exploration, lunar scientific research station, solar system edge exploration, giant planet system exploration, and Venus atmosphere sampling and return will be demonstrated.

Select 4 to 5 large-scale tasks from the mission directions of high-precision infrared observation in space, comprehensive observation of the tidal force of celestial bodies on earthquake induction, circumsolar exploration, space high energy, X-ray detection, space gravitational wave detection, as well as the large-scale mission directions that have not been approved by the planning stage until 2027; select 10 to 11 small and medium-sized and opportunistic missions from the mission directions of ultraviolet astronomical observation, ocean energy level constellation, observation of cross-sphere coupling processes in the key belt, observation of thermodynamic structure and chemical composition of the boundary layer, global high-precision geomagnetic field constellation, geostress observation, Earth radiation belt detection, space weather source exploration, formation solar high-energy detection, quadrupole collaborative science observation, observation of Earth dynamic changes, asteroid detection, detection of exoplanet satellites, as well as the small and medium-sized mission directions that have not been approved by the planning stage until 2027.

The third stage, from 2036 to 2050, will see my country reach world-leading levels in key areas of space science, demonstrate the implementation of 5-6 large missions, and around 25 small, medium and opportunistic missions.

 

To achieve the development goals of this plan, we need to further strengthen organizational implementation, ensure financial input, consolidate basic capabilities, deepen international cooperation, strengthen popularization of science, and continuously achieve key, original, and leading major scientific and technological achievements, so as to strongly support the construction of a strong aerospace nation and a strong science and technology nation.