Antenna Range Diagram (stock / OPM /JX2 / GPP / GPO)

[GoSlash27]

Kergarin,
 Well, it's (of course) your chart and your call, but I don't see how any of that is really a problem. The nonlinearity shouldn't matter, since it's immaterial to the decisions that will be made using this chart.
 As for the vertical size, that just allows you to populate more data horizontally.

Best,
-Slashy

[Kergarin]

What about something like this?

 

Smaler scale and hard scale changes at 0,01 - 0,1 and 1 Gm instead of log.

Hm... I think I should change the general resolution 

[GoSlash27]

I think the hard scale changes are actually more confusing than the log scale. Isn't Minmus in the wrong place?

 When you populate with the ranges of the available antennae, I think you're going to end up with a crowded jumble between Minmus and Eve. It will also appear deceptive about the difficulty of reaching Eve with (for example) a 2G dish.

Best,
-Slashy

[Kergarin]

Minmus is at 0,047Gm, or am I wrong?

Is the space between Minmus and Eve really interesting?

There will be only two antennas for each DSN level between 0,1 and Eve.

 

I will try to populate this a little and try the log scale, if this does not work.

 

[GoSlash27]

Kergarin,
 No, you're right about Minmus' SMA. I was just (ironically) confused by the scale change.
 The space between Minmus and Eve is only interesting in the sense that there are so many antennae combos/ DSN levels that top out in that range.
 IIRC, the Communotron 16, HG-5, and RA-2 all fall within that neighborhood in combination.

Best,
-Slashy





 

[Superfluous J]

I don't see the need for Mun and Minmus, as the only way to lose comms at Mun is to not bring any antenna, and the only way to lose it at Minmus is to bring the weakest one with the lowest tracking station.

I like the log graph, but would label the axis with more rounded numbers and put the more exact numbers on the planet lines.

[Kergarin]

I have just created a correct Log scale compared to the broken scale.

 

I still see a big problem with Log scale and Mun+Minmus. The distances are too different to use any natural scale.
I think I will do another scale change on the broken scale version at 100Gm to make it more compact. And will make it in higher resolution.

 

Have just seen Duna is wrong on the log scale.

Edited November 20, 2017 by Kergarin

[GoSlash27]

I like the way the log scale graph looks. Might just be me

-Slashy

[fourfa]

I LOVE the log scale! Though you could cut off the high end of the scale at 130 Gm, no need for a label past 100. But it works, makes sense, easy to read, and really drives home the gap between home SOI and extraplanetary and thus the level-up in tech you need. 

[Kergarin]

Maybe it looks nice and is technical correct.

But there is absolutely no space to position all the antennas between the planets, and isn't exactly this the most important to show?

Why use so much space for a few values in an area without any targets, and have so narrow space in the most interesting range?

[John FX]

20 hours ago, Kergarin said:

Sadly I will not find time for this, but i don't mind if someone does a version for RO.

That is completely understandable, to be honest just knowing the relative increase in range for various antenna with the upgrades is very helpful. I always wondered just how beneficial upgrading the antenna was, now I know it is very beneficial.

[GoSlash27]

https://imgur.com/K5aKgJb

Looks good from my house...
 Again, it's your chart so do it how you think is best.

Best,
-Slashy

[Kergarin]

That looks ok so far. But if we add the multiple antenna values, it gets tight. But I could delete some and only keep the essential values. Hm...

I will think about it. In every case thanks for your effort!

I can absolutely understand you, I'm also not really happy to have a broken scale. But I still feel like the most important regions should have the most space.

So on the other hand, I'm even thinking about breaking the scale further, and make the region between 1 and 50Gm even larger, to have more detail in that important section.

[Kergarin]

I'm sorry, but I still think the values fit better in this one.

[Nexusfire285]

This is super useful. I'm glad that I found this chart.

[Plusck]

This is great. Thanks.

Now that you've done all the hard work... could you do a second one with three more columns to the right giving the same results for the 2G, 15G and 100G relays?

Pretty please?

This would not only be immensely useful for masochists playing without the DSN ground stations, but also for normal people placing relays around planets, just to get the numbers.

Edited November 28, 2017 by Plusck

[swjr-swis]

On 11/20/2017 at 11:11 PM, Kergarin said:

I'm sorry, but I still think the values fit better in this one.

I agree that it looks better, as long as it's made clear that the scale is broken, so there is no confusion.

 

An alternative to consider, and perhaps a solution to the 'verticalness' of the graph as well: why not two graphs side by side?

One from 0-5 Gm to show Kerbin, Mun, Minmus, maybe a marker for KEO, and the two neighbours Eve and Duna teasing at the upper edge. Then a separate one beside it from 1-150Gm for the planets.

Edited November 28, 2017 by swjr-swis

[Kergarin]

2 hours ago, Plusck said:

This is great. Thanks.

Now that you've done all the hard work... could you do a second one with three more columns to the right giving the same results for the 2G, 15G and 100G relays?

Pretty please?

This would not only be immensely useful for masochists playing without the DSN ground stations, but also for normal people placing relays around planets, just to get the numbers.

Thanks!

Well, I don't know if this kind of visualization makes sense for relays. The DSN Station are always located at Kerbin, but a relay could be anywhere in the system.

Maybe just showing the ranges without relation to any planets would make more sense. I will think about it.

But for now I would suggest using Podmunds calculator for those special needs, which is linked in the first post.

41 minutes ago, swjr-swis said:

I agree that it looks better, as long as it's made clear that the scale is broken, so there is no confusion.

 

An alternative to consider, and perhaps a solution to the 'verticalness' of the graph as well: why not two graphs side by side?

One from 0-5 Gm to show Kerbin, Mun, Minmus, maybe a marker for KEO, and Eve and Duna teasing at the upper edge. Then a separate one beside it from 1-150Gm for the planets.

I have inserted some red markings into the scale and a hint on the left. I hope this makes it clear enough? (see first post)

I had a side by side version, but it looked to cluttered. This one is more straight, I think.

And the scale for Mun Minmus etc would need to be broken or log too, if it goes to 5Gm, because all of Kerbins moons are below 0,1Gm. (0,012 and 0,047)

Edited November 28, 2017 by Kergarin

[Plusck]

3 hours ago, Kergarin said:

Thanks!

Well, I don't know if this kind of visualization makes sense for relays. The DSN Station are always located at Kerbin, but a relay could be anywhere in the system.

Maybe just showing the ranges without relation to any planets would make more sense. I will think about it.

But for now I would suggest using Podmunds calculator for those special needs, which is linked in the first post.

Yes, thinking about it a bit more, it would really only be useful for quick reference if you changed scale completely.

As it is, the level 1 DSN is 2G, so the first column would be identical anyway. You can use the second column to approximate a 100G relay just by seeing where your "x2" marks fall (then adding a touch.... ok so this is starting to sound increasingly less useful already...). So the only "quick reference" thing that is missing is the range of a 15G relay, and I don't suppose it's a good use of your time to add a whole new section and clutter just for that.

Edited November 28, 2017 by Plusck

[Kergarin]

4 minutes ago, Plusck said:

Yes, thinking about it a bit more, it would really only be useful for quick reference if you changed scale completely.

As it is, the level 1 DSN is 2G, so the first column would be identical anyway. You can use the second column to approximate a 100G relay just by seeing where your "x2" marks fall. So the only "quick reference" thing that is missing is the range of a 15G relay, and I don't suppose it's a good use of your time to add a whole new section and clutter just for that.

There is also another point, which makes visualizing relays hard:

For the DSN you do always only have one DSN antenna on one side, and you can have multiple antennas on the other side.

But for relays, you can have multiple antennas on both sides. This cannot be shown this way. 

But as I said, the linked calculator in the first post is really good for custom calculations. 

[Cheif Operations Director]

Thank you for this it was very helpful for me with the Upcoming 1.2 for consoles. 

[Kergarin]

Maybe this should be moved to tutorials?

[cyberKerb]

@Kergarin Just wonder what you used to make the actual chart? Excel? Inkscape?

[Kergarin]

Mspaint 

[cyberKerb]

I've made an OPM version for myself. Was wondering if it would be OK to post here so all credit stays with @Kergarin and in this thread. It's an awesome chart by the way - love a good infographic.
For my version, I've added the JX2 Antenna by Snark as I use that in my Career games for the extra range. It resets the x4 antenna & x8 DSN power back to normal when it and OPM is installed so no need to modify the stock data you've already compiled.  It also fills in those blanks at the top for the OPM planets where even 20 x 100G can't reach.

Edited December 19, 2017 by wile1411