Interstellar Interloper (A/2017 U1)

[magnemoe]

13 hours ago, Green Baron said:

As a relief from the monotonous starship talk  a few serious thoughts on Ummagamma:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41550-017-0361-4

tl:dr: billions of years of exposure to cosmic radiation might have covered it in an insulating shell, which can be the reason why there is apparently no surface activity.

Problem is that it rotate so fast it can hardly be ice because it would have broken up. 
Impact fragment is my guess, its large for one and it would be interesting to see how this happened. 

One thing is pretty obvious its not an probe its to slow for one, it might be artificial as in space junk think drop tank or container but its an low chance, not wort trying an intercept. 

[DAL59]

I say it is worth trying to intercept, even though I don't think its aliens.  We don't know if its rare, so this might be a very rare chance to learn about chemistry of other solar systems compared to ours.  

[kerbiloid]

6 hours ago, magnemoe said:

One thing is pretty obvious its not an probe its to slow for one, it might be artificial as in space junk think drop tank or container but its an low chance, not wort trying an intercept. 

Spoiler

 

[Green Baron]

It is out of reach. It is already far above Mars (almost Jupiter orbit height !) and almost rectangular to the solar ecliptic, no way to get it. Even if it had been spotted 2-3 months before it came close to the sun there would have been no chance.

We must wait for the next one and hope that better telescopes get a better view.

Oh, and it is a typical asteroid ;-)

Edited January 2, 2018 by Green Baron

[Diche Bach]

On 1/2/2018 at 4:22 AM, Green Baron said:

It is out of reach. It is already far above Mars (almost Jupiter orbit height !) and almost rectangular to the solar ecliptic, no way to get it. Even if it had been spotted 2-3 months before it came close to the sun there would have been no chance.

We must wait for the next one and hope that better telescopes get a better view.

Oh, and it is a typical asteroid ;-)

Except for having an overall shape that is more cigar-like than any asteroid ever recorded, and also spinning at a rate considerably faster than most asteroids . . . and oh yeah, it isn't orbiting the sun, and its trucking rather rapidly . . . and its reddish . . . but otherwise, just your typical asteroid! 

[Green Baron]

2 hours ago, Diche Bach said:

Except for having an overall shape that is more cigar-like than any asteroid ever recorded, and also spinning at a rate considerably faster than most asteroids . . . and oh yeah, it isn't orbiting the sun, and its trucking rather rapidly . . . and its reddish . . . but otherwise, just your typical asteroid! 

Hehe:-)

Good morning *coffeeslurpnoise*. But every small asteroid is irregular (typically), spins different (typically), reddish isn't atypical for an old asteroid (typically, because may well be older than our solar system), and it must orbit something. Speed and orbit is connected, and because it is so fast it can't orbit a star. Ok, this is atypical, for our solar system and for now, maybe not for other potatoes/cigars/saucers out there ;-)

Giving a meaning to a shape is a fantasy of ours ("cigar"), remember that moon with the shape of a typical 60's flying saucer ? The reddish thing was just an exaggeration in the media, i'd say, it is not atypical.

Edited January 6, 2018 by Green Baron

[Diche Bach]

Is the fact it is the first confirmed interstellar object to be observed passing through the solar system also an exaggeration?

Based on what I have read, its shape IS irregular, and since you seem to think differently, why don't you provide citations, eh!? 

In fact, since you are having fun spoiling all of our fantasies, why don't you just back up all your cold shower comments.

Omuga Muga is SPECIAL I tell you! SPECIAL!

See!? Its "wrapped in a strange organic coat!"

 . . . seriously though, you're probably correct. Nothing but a rock. However, the fact it will NEVER be observable closely means that humanities imagination will be free to run wild for a very long time.

[Green Baron]

54 minutes ago, Diche Bach said:

Is the fact it is the first confirmed interstellar object to be observed passing through the solar system also an exaggeration?

It is number one caught red handed so far.

Quote

Based on what I have read, its shape IS irregular, and since you seem to think differently, why don't you provide citations, eh!? 

That'll be a few thousands :-) Yes, it is irregular like many others, but that does by no means imply that it is artificial, as it has been depicted even in here.

Quote

In fact, since you are having fun spoiling all of our fantasies, why don't you just back up all your cold shower comments.

I am not having fun. And i think the second part was meant to be funny ? :-)

Quote

Omuga Muga is SPECIAL I tell you! SPECIAL!

If you say so :-) I hope Ummagamma has followers we can observe more closely.

Quote

 

 . . . seriously though, you're probably correct. Nothing but a rock. However, the fact it will NEVER be observable closely means that humanities imagination will be free to run wild for a very long time.

 

Well, still a highly interesting rock, as it is now clear that interstellar space isn't empty and in this case the object isn't much different from solar system TNOs (Edit: on first and superficial sight). Except that it is probably much older than the solar system. But had it not had the ludicrous speed and high inclination at initial detection, it could well have been yet another solar system asteroid.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41550-017-0361-4 (already linked above)

tl,dr: hard shell, similar surface as organic rich TNOs, soft core not excluded. A little less reddish than the typical TNO. An originally organic-rich surface that has had a long share of cosmic radiation.

Btw. "organic-rich" means oxygen-/nitrogen-/carbon- hydrogen groups, like detected on for example Churyumov-Gerasimenko (Chury) http://science.sciencemag.org/content/347/6220/aaa0628

Speaking of irregular shapes, Chury was weirder than Ummagamma, probably two bodies bound by a bridge of ice and dust. Hmmm, but not an Asteroid ...

 

Oh, and thanks for urging me to look that up. Seriously :-)

 

Edited January 6, 2018 by Green Baron

[kerbiloid]

20 hours ago, Diche Bach said:

Omuga Muga

 

19 hours ago, Green Baron said:

Ummagamma

Please... Why all of you omit the starting (inverted? reversed? overturned?) apostrophe?
It's ʻOumuamua.  ʻOumuamua

Edited January 7, 2018 by kerbiloid

[Green Baron]

Aloha,

the apostrophe is an 'Okina. Hawai'ian specialty. A consonant meaning a closed throat like the Bri'ish glo'al stop :-)

Alroi', wilco, just to please you

:-)

Edited January 7, 2018 by Green Baron

[kerbiloid]

Thanks.
I suspected something like this when listening the wiki pronunciation.

For Russian speakers: the asteroid name should be correctly pronounced starting with a glottal stop sound like in "Не-а!" between "е" and "а". That's what ʻ is.

Edited January 8, 2018 by kerbiloid

[Green Baron]

'Oumuamua, tumbling along.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41550-018-0398-z

tl, dr: Analysis of the photometry cannot uniquely explain the brightness variations by rotation around the longest axis. Not enough data. A possible solution is a rotation not around the main axis, a slightly plumper shape (5:1 ratio) and/or a spotty surface.

So be it :-)

Edited February 10, 2018 by Green Baron

[Racescort666]

On 1/1/2018 at 3:58 PM, monophonic said:

I haven't seen the last jedi! 

Although I do instantly recognize Mon Calamari esthetics even if it hits me in the head, from behind, with full broadside. And I am sensitive enough in hollywood economics force to know said esthetics would feature in said motion picture. Nothing actually spoilt for me then.

The tears were just because I haven't seen the movie.

Sorry about the off topic post (especially a month and a half late) but I wanted to add that new year’s eve the lady and I saw Star Wars and visited the Cape Canaveral Air Force missile museum. I wish I had been following this thread in a timely manner. I hope you have gotten a chance to see The Last Jedi by now. 

Edited February 10, 2018 by Racescort666

[Green Baron]

Using the Gaia database, somebody tried to get behind 'oumuamua's origin.

And the answer is, a close origin is improbable as it is too fast.

https://arxiv.org/abs/1809.09009

It has probably been traveling a long time.

 

[Codraroll]

1 hour ago, Green Baron said:

It has probably been traveling a long time.

Frankly, anything else would worry me.

[Scotius]

Oh, to get samples of this ancient traveller to a fully equipped laboratory... We could learn so much... Maybe one day

[linuxgurugamer]

1 hour ago, Scotius said:

Oh, to get samples of this ancient traveller to a fully equipped laboratory... We could learn so much... Maybe one day

Just bring the lab to the object, might be easier.

[magnemoe]

1 hour ago, Scotius said:

Oh, to get samples of this ancient traveller to a fully equipped laboratory... We could learn so much... Maybe one day

its an simple intercept who just require lots of dV. 

Ground controll: Dauntless, we have an priority mission for you:
Columbia here (nervous): Dauntless do not burn burn, repeat delay burn. 

Edit 1: no kerbals was hurt Columia passed below dauntless and was far away then she did her burn. Memorable as it was an below Moho retrograde rescue mission with the MK3 pod.
On the other hand it was hard on the bottom line but no Kerbals left behind. 

Edit 2: Its some indications one of Jupiter outer moons might be an captured interstellar object, if true it would be plausible to intercept, might be an relevant mission if you do multiple Jovian moons at once. 

Edited September 25, 2018 by magnemoe

[kerbiloid]

Spoiler

That Momo is how a 300 m derelict starship should look after many years of erosion.

 

[Green Baron]

Ok, this was to be expected sooner or later:

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1810.11490.pdf

They speculate about the artificial origin thing.

It can't be falsified nor proved, Oumuamua is beyond any observation since a long time. Maybe we will see similar objects in the future. Until then, it may be best to stick with the original and widely accepted explanation of a comet like object with a very old surface.

[tater]

LOL. It's literally never aliens.

[cubinator]

1 hour ago, tater said:

LOL. It's literally never aliens.

But maybe THIS time... 

Don't worry. If it was a solar sail, whoever sent it will surely get their data back and send something more to investigate that weird oxygenated wet rock in ten thousand years.

I think we will surely see more of these interstellar interlopers in the future, and when that happens we will be able to learn more about them, and that will be very exciting, strange rocks or otherwise. 

On 9/25/2018 at 5:15 PM, magnemoe said:

Edit 2: Its some indications one of Jupiter outer moons might be an captured interstellar object, if true it would be plausible to intercept, might be an relevant mission if you do multiple Jovian moons at once. 

This is a good idea. Imagine the stir it would cause if a sample was taken and found to be six or eight billion years old! Any amount of material from outside the solar system could teach us so much...

[Green Baron]

Afaik one Jupiter's moons orbits retrograde which makes it a potentially captured kbo, but not necessarily interstellar.

Otoh, it may explain why we aren't allowed to attempt a landing on Europa ...

[magnemoe]

50 minutes ago, cubinator said:

But maybe THIS time... 

Don't worry. If it was a solar sail, whoever sent it will surely get their data back and send something more to investigate that weird oxygenated wet rock in ten thousand years.

I think we will surely see more of these interstellar interlopers in the future, and when that happens we will be able to learn more about them, and that will be very exciting, strange rocks or otherwise. ..

The theory actually has something for it. 
Its not an active probe or spaceship, for one its way to slow. If you have 800 meter spaceships you has better drives so it would go much faster. 

However as its very long for its width I thought an fuel tank, container or similar space junk was one remote possibility. 
Outgassing however is far more likely for this behavior. 

[ThatGuyWithALongUsername]

I can't believe nobody's posted the Scott Manley video yet!

I still think the chance of it being aliens, while extremely low, is enough to justify SETI-scanning some of those possible parent stars or something.