The KSP Caveman Challenge 1.3.x - 1.10.x [re-booted]

[GoSlash27]

End of day one.

Spoiler

 

 

4 nodes left to go. The Mun probes should collect enough science to close it out, but I want to collect as much Kerbin science as I can in the meantime just to be sure. Lots of flying while I still have sunlight, and I have to design a long- range science plane to reach the poles and Badlands.

Best,
-Slashy

Edited March 9, 2018 by GoSlash27

[dvader]

I've finally finished the Diamond run. It switches from KSP 1.3 to 1.4 somewhere in the middle of part 3 unfortunately. I didn't realize KSP had updated until I had started the game and couldn't downgrade since 1.3 no longer recognized the save file.

The first two parts are here:

https://imgur.com/a/ff434

https://imgur.com/a/laRKB

And the final part is here:

https://imgur.com/a/FIL0K

The science is mostly from Minmus (all 9 biomes) and from Mun (6 biomes). About 60 science and 400k cash came from money contracts.

Highlights are:

A standard monolith and much later a Greenolith (which gave me nothing useful).

Several fairing mishaps (I blame 1.4). Note the red drag vector coming out of the fairing (which was properly closed and "green").

And a final almost successful double biome Mun mission. It just needed some help from a claw to get back home.

 

 

[Mr. Peabody]

1 hour ago, dvader said:

I've finally finished the Diamond run. It switches from KSP 1.3 to 1.4 somewhere in the middle of part 3 unfortunately. I didn't realize KSP had updated until I had started the game and couldn't downgrade since 1.3 no longer recognized the save file.

Congratulations on completing diamond!  As one caveman would say, "Yabba Dabba Doo!" You may claim you badge.

[MinimalMinmus]

Huge congratulations to you @dvader! You are officially a badass caveman!

Now, here's the 1,000,000$, the one both I and you are wondering about:

Is NCD:

a) Impossible

b) Not possible

c) Too hard

d) Not humanely doable?

I mean seriously, has anyone ever managed to do it? There is no record in the 1.2 challenge and no one managed to do it in 1.1

[dvader]

@MinimalMinmus Thanks! I am looking forward to the continuation of your epic tale of man vs machine as well.

About NCD, I suppose a meta study might be in order:

1. Is it doable with infinite grinding? That is, can enough science be gathered to unlock the next stage given infinite cash.
2. Given an approximate number of missions required from (1) and the type of available contracts, how many grinding missions are needed to gather the cash? What is the net profit per mission?
3. I guess you could grind contracts with a science reward but how many missions would that be?
4. What is the minimum number of missions using a combination of cash/science grinding and real missions?

(1) should be answerable with a spreadsheet. For example, crew report and goo from 15 Kerbin biomes gives 6.75 science which is enough to unlock the thermometer. Temp measurements brings in another 3.6 science from 15 biomes so now you can unlock the first rocketry node as well.

 

[MinimalMinmus]

25 minutes ago, dvader said:

@MinimalMinmus Thanks! I am looking forward to the continuation of your epic tale of man vs machine as well.

About NCD, I suppose a meta study might be in order:

1. Is it doable with infinite grinding? That is, can enough science be gathered to unlock the next stage given infinite cash.
2. Given an approximate number of missions required from (1) and the type of available contracts, how many grinding missions are needed to gather the cash? What is the net profit per mission?
3. I guess you could grind contracts with a science reward but how many missions would that be?
4. What is the minimum number of missions using a combination of cash/science grinding and real missions?

(1) should be answerable with a spreadsheet. For example, crew report and goo from 15 Kerbin biomes gives 6.75 science which is enough to unlock the thermometer. Temp measurements brings in another 3.6 science from 15 biomes so now you can unlock the first rocketry node as well.

Once you get to the point you can grind contracts (which we both did, though we didn't grind the same type of contracts) the challenge is essentially won, it's just a matter of patience to get the 900-something science using contracts.

Of course, that is scandalously grindy!

One of the main problems of a NCD attempt is that an interplanetary mission is almost mandatory, as even by grinding a bit you will still be 200 science short. It would be possible to cut on that number by getting some greenoliths, but YMMW, as we have seen with your mission: mine was very good, yours didn't give you an interesting node (although better panels can be helpful). Also, getting a greenolith that's not Minmus' is very hard.

The obvious result is that you NEED to have at least one pilot at the end of the day to do that mission.

 

Also, there's a "tiny" problem:

HOW DO YOU UNLOCK ELECTRICS?!?

[dvader]

I've used my science planning spreadsheet to try some possible strategies for NCD and it seems... unlikely.

You can unlock both Engineering and Basic Rocketry by roving the KSC and nearby biomes. General Rocketry could be unlocked if you send a Kerbal on a ladder to low space (EVA report per biome). But a Mun flyby only gives 4.6 science so it isn't really worth it. Also, it isn't worth unlocking the barometer instead of General Rocketry unless you intend to visit almost all biomes on Kerbin.

Or to put it differently, you need 45 science to unlock the prerequisites of temp, barometer and reliant. Everything you can do with that (including EVA reports from space) around Kerbin and Mun high/low space (flyby, no EVA) can give you 78 science. To unlock the next step you need 45 more and 45+45=90 so you are still 12 short despite doing everything.

Just unlocking the Terrier would be a huge (grinding) achievement.

[Mr. Peabody]

5 hours ago, dvader said:

I've used my science planning spreadsheet to try some possible strategies for NCD and it seems... unlikely.

You can unlock both Engineering and Basic Rocketry by roving the KSC and nearby biomes. General Rocketry could be unlocked if you send a Kerbal on a ladder to low space (EVA report per biome). But a Mun flyby only gives 4.6 science so it isn't really worth it. Also, it isn't worth unlocking the barometer instead of General Rocketry unless you intend to visit almost all biomes on Kerbin.

Or to put it differently, you need 45 science to unlock the prerequisites of temp, barometer and reliant. Everything you can do with that (including EVA reports from space) around Kerbin and Mun high/low space (flyby, no EVA) can give you 78 science. To unlock the next step you need 45 more and 45+45=90 so you are still 12 short despite doing everything.

Just unlocking the Terrier would be a huge (grinding) achievement.

It's possible using contract science, green meanie monoliths, and other methods, but very difficult.

[GoSlash27]

End of day 2.

 

Spoiler

 

 The new long distance science plane thingy works great. Even supercruises.

I hit up the North and South ice caps, and the Badlands.

The high and low Munar science sweeps have been completed. Now to get them home intact...

I can fill in one more node with Kerbin science, but after that... I'm afraid I'll have no choice but to twiddle my thumbs and wait for my Munar science to return.

The Mun science has no value. For now...

 

If I had just 2 or 3 more biomes on Kerbin, the Munar flybys wouldn't even be necessary and I could close out the Caveman in 2 days. Still... I'm doing okay. I have enough science in my pocket to close it out so long as I recover one of my probes intact.

Best,
-Slashy

[MinimalMinmus]

My mission report is finished! You can check it at the usual thread.

Now, I'll try to finish my grand chelem(keyword:TRY). Strangely, when I started my NCD attempt, the game showed a message saying "ABANDON ALL HOPE YE WHO TRIES NANOCRYSTALLINE DIAMOND".

[IncongruousGoat]

For everyone wondering about whether or not NCD is possible, I recommend looking at @MoeslyArmlis's attempt, which is spread across the 1.0 and 1.1 threads. From what I've gathered from that thread, the key technology isn't electrics so much as miniaturization, because that gives you docking ports, and with enough docking ports the solar system is your oyster. After a certain point, funds are in essentially infinite supply, so the problem boils down to science gathering.

I may have to make my own attempt, one of these days...

[Mr. Peabody]

@MinimalMinmus, Congratulations on completing Diamond! You are hereby awarded the Order of the Trilobite for completing Diamond and conducting a flyby of Duna and Ike. You may claim your badges.

[Mr. Peabody]

[Anouncement] Check the main thread for details on how the "Making History Expansion Pack" will be handled in this challenge.

[MinimalMinmus]

My guess about Making History: most useful parts are after 90 science anyway, except maybe the soviet pods, which seem to be the most conflicting parts for now (say, the 1-pod is better than the mk1 command pod, it even has a shield). Maybe we could forbid them?

[Mr. Peabody]

4 hours ago, MinimalMinmus said:

My guess about Making History: most useful parts are after 90 science anyway, except maybe the soviet pods, which seem to be the most conflicting parts for now (say, the 1-pod is better than the mk1 command pod, it even has a shield). Maybe we could forbid them?

Banning the use of several Making History parts while allowing others would be confusing. At least for now I am treating making history as an allowed mod and splitting it off into a separate category. Users who complete the challenge using the expansion pack will not receive as many kudus and will not be eligible for the "Order of the Trilobite."

[zanie420]

Can the Mission Builder be used now to actually create this challenge?

[Mr. Peabody]

2 hours ago, zanie420 said:

Can the Mission Builder be used now to actually create this challenge?

No. The KSP Caveman challenge is meant to be played in career mode, per rule number 1. The mission builder would defeat the purpose of the challenge.

[GoSlash27]

Finally finished with my 1.4.0 Caveman run. Final elapsed time 2 days, 5 hours, 40 minutes. I was hoping to finish it before getting my probes home, just missed it by 20 minutes or so.

https://imgur.com/a/l9RBD

 

 

 

I think I may be able to do it quicker next time...

Best,
-Slashy

[Mr. Peabody]

@GoSlash27, congratulations on completing Vanadium! 

[GoSlash27]

1 hour ago, The Dunatian said:

@GoSlash27, congratulations on completing Vanadium! 

The Dunatian,
 I believe I just get Apatite for that. It was a normal difficulty career.

Best,
-Slashy

[Mr. Peabody]

Just now, GoSlash27 said:

The Dunatian,
 I believe I just get Apatite for that. It was a normal difficulty career.

Best,
-Slashy

Ah, I've done it again. 

[Muetdhiver]

Thanks for the challenge. It's a neat idea, loving it.

I will not do it vanilla, as I use Missing history, the dmmagic science mod and the quetzal probe pack and unmaned before manned*... but I'm doing it at 3.2x rescale, 30% science, 50% funds.

The 18t limit makes for an "interesting" challenge when one need 5.7K dv to get to orbit. It's bloody hard to be honest. Mun flyby so far.

*Without unmanned before manned, the challenge is impossible in 3.2x. IMO.

[Mr. Peabody]

On 4/28/2018 at 10:49 AM, Muetdhiver said:

Thanks for the challenge. It's a neat idea, loving it.

I will not do it vanilla, as I use Missing history, the dmmagic science mod and the quetzal probe pack and unmaned before manned*... but I'm doing it at 3.2x rescale, 30% science, 50% funds.

The 18t limit makes for an "interesting" challenge when one need 5.7K dv to get to orbit. It's bloody hard to be honest. Mun flyby so far.

*Without unmanned before manned, the challenge is impossible in 3.2x. IMO.

That's great! I'm glad to hear you're having fun.   However...

Rule #1: Stock career mode

The above mentioned mods definitely change gameplay significantly, so no credit for your modded run. If you would like to try the challenge on a stock install I'd be happy to add you to the cave wall.

[Muetdhiver]

I might attempt it vanilla later on.

Does no mods include 3.2x rescale XD ?

For now I will post it as a caveman evolved in the appropriate topic. It's been quite instructive so far.

Sorry for messing up the thread a bit.

Edited May 6, 2018 by Muetdhiver

[Mr. Peabody]

14 hours ago, Muetdhiver said:

Does no mods include 3.2x rescale?

You bet.