Air Superiority Fighter Competition

[exbyde]

3 hours ago, HeroBrian_333 said:

Ok. When you get it to work, make sure on the AI max speed is set to 800 and in the guard mode menu the sight distance is set to max, the gun range is set to max, and missiles per target is set to 2.

Gun range set to max?

[HeroBrian_333]

Yeah, it helps. Also, set cruising altitude to 3 klicks (kilometers).

[exbyde]

3 minutes ago, HeroBrian_333 said:

Yeah, it helps. Also, set cruising altitude to 3 klicks (kilometers).

isnt max gunrange like 9km though?

[HeroBrian_333]

6 minutes ago, exbyde said:

isnt max gunrange like 9km though?

No, 8 klicks. Helps after all my missiles are gone. While most craft wait till it is "who has more guns?", mine is like, "Get Rekt Sanngrigor! You're dead!"

Also, next project is a plane that is built to excel with a howitzer cannon. Or 2. Or 6. Cause 1 hit from a howitzer, and you are DED.

Edited December 11, 2017 by HeroBrian_333

[Piatzin]

Setting gun range to max won't do squat if the on-board weapons have a range that's below the set value. Vulcans can only shoot across a distance of 2500 meters, irrespective of the guard mode settings

[HeroBrian_333]

1 minute ago, Earthlinger said:

Setting gun range to max won't do squat if the on-board weapons have a range that's below the set value. Vulcans can only shoot across a distance of 2500 meters, irrespective of the guard mode settings

Really? Dang, one more adjustment for the mk. 2

[HeroBrian_333]

@Eidahlil any luck with the EuroDart? If not, just download a new file for it.

[drtricky]

10 hours ago, Eidahlil said:

*snip*

That dronbast might just be the most maneuverable plane I've ever seen. 

[HeroBrian_333]

Just now, drtricky said:

That dronbast might just be the most maneuverable plane I've ever seen. 

Not me. I've seen things that can pull high-g maneuvers.

[Eidahlil]

So it seems that there's a bug in the current version of BDA concerning fairings which (sometimes) makes Dronbast stop firing completely. If that is an option, I'd like to suspend my entry until a fix goes live, @exbyde. Battles where one of the participants just flies around without shooting are probably not that much fun.

EDIT: It seems I did not change some of Eurodart's settings according to specification. Video retracted.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Eidahlil

[HeroBrian_333]

EuroDart did not perform at all like it did in testing. Almost always dodged all misiles. Did you set all the settings right? If so, that dev version of BDA must have messed it up. I think it broke the radar, because EuroDart never fired a missile. Also, ECM never went active and it was flying too low.

For @exbyde's reference when the time comes for full combat, settings are:

Flight speed - max

Gun range - max

Visual range - max

Flight altitude - 3000 meters

Missiles per target - 1

 

Also, I never had the problem with the fairing, and you didn't either.

[exbyde]

@Eidahlil @HeroBrian_333 still exam week, so i'm not on KSP much.  I did take a break though and made something to kill the Dorito...

https://kerbalx.com/ExByDe/Mini-Val

it kills the Valhalla aircraft without losses, and goes toe-to-toe with the f3mkII and Dorito.

[HeroBrian_333]

Well... it appears that you have figured out go to make the delta wings useful. Ah well. When stock craft reign supreme and tyrranicaly...

Turn To Mods!

(P.S I'm adding that to my sig)

[MiffedStarfish]

How far are you though entries right now? 

[HeroBrian_333]

2 minutes ago, MiffedStarfish said:

How far are you though entries right now? 

About six or seven planes left to test, then we have none. Why do you ask?

[MiffedStarfish]

I was wondering roughly when my entry would be flown.

[NotAnAimbot]

1 hour ago, exbyde said:

@Eidahlil @HeroBrian_333 still exam week, so i'm not on KSP much.  I did take a break though and made something to kill the Dorito...

 

https://kerbalx.com/ExByDe/Mini-Val

it kills the Valhalla aircraft without losses, and goes toe-to-toe with the f3mkII and Dorito.

I wonder why so many people go with MOAR engines as a solution. I ran a few tests and was able to beat the dorito with single engine designs.

Edited December 12, 2017 by NotAnAimbot

[exbyde]

28 minutes ago, NotAnAimbot said:

I wonder why so many people go with MOAR engines as a solution. I ran a few tests and was able to beat the dorito with single engine designs.

If you've got so many worldbeaters, lets see em'. This wound up being more of a reimagining of a previous non-afterburning concept. Also, its because more engines means more weight at an ideal t/w ratio, and more influence from thrust vectoring. You can also go the opposite way, less weight, more maneuverability, which is also a very valid strategy.

50 minutes ago, MiffedStarfish said:

I was wondering roughly when my entry would be flown.

SUNDAY, SUNDAY, SUNDAY!

No, but i graduate saturday so with any luck i'll have spare time sunday.

Edited December 12, 2017 by exbyde

[drtricky]

@exbyde Yer gonna have the time, but not the mental capacity to run those fights with all the parties you'll be having. 

[NotAnAimbot]

5 hours ago, exbyde said:

Also, its because more engines means more weight at an ideal t/w ratio, and more influence from thrust vectoring

You don't really need that extra weight though. Most if the times when you use 2+ engine the engines and their fuel end up causing the weight, not your payload.

[HeroBrian_333]

Anyone know of some good mods with thrust vectoring engines?

[exbyde]

2 hours ago, NotAnAimbot said:

You don't really need that extra weight though. Most if the times when you use 2+ engine the engines and their fuel end up causing the weight, not your payload.

It depends on what you're doing. Weight per engine is 2 tons, if you include the panther(1.2t), 100 units of fuel (.5t) and tank/equipment (~.3). If you want to make the gamble on guns only, or just about, it makes sense, keep your airframe light, keep it fast, and you're good. Works very well for the sanngrior, an aircraft so small that it isn't picked up on radar until ~8k out on average, worked well enough for the heavier Be Gentle, another gunfighter. But twins have a lot of advantages. Higher thrust to weight ratios keep aircraft moving in turns with bigger, draggier airfoils, get aircraft across the 15km missile gap faster, accelerate fast to escape other aircraft, and also add an extra dimension to thrust vectoring (roll). While i'm sure it's not "necessary", its advantageous and generally requires less thinking to get a great aircraft that weighs 9t on a pair of engines than it is a single engine at 4.5t, or in my case, a 13.45 ton three-engine, and gives you more wiggle room for stuff like wings, missiles, etc. And while i could knock my aircraft back to two engines, i'd also suffer a 21% penalty on my thrust-to-weight ratio, and probably need to drop to a smaller wing or create a higher angle delta. 

In short, that extra weight from doubling the engines makes it easier to design stuff that turns better, accelerates better, etc. I suppose we'll be putting your theories to the test with the Novi on sunday though.

Edited December 13, 2017 by exbyde

[Piatzin]

Cough cough

Ahem

Ignore every single one of my submissions, except this one:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/83ykwxt0g7uc65u/Lancer ASF.craft?dl=0

Sorry for any inconvenience this may cause ;P

[NotAnAimbot]

14 hours ago, exbyde said:

its advantageous and generally requires less thinking to get a great aircraft that weighs 9t on a pair of engines than it is a single engine at 4.5t

Again, you're doing something wrong if you need those many engines.

This design beats the dorito. Look at the weight and the number of engines (All one of them).

What does a basic non-spam plane need? About 4 missiles, 2 guns and their ammo, some jammers, a radar and a cockpit. 

Combined these weigh about five tons. With wings and a single engine, they weigh anywhere from 7 to 9 tons. If you add more engines, you're just adding useless weight, unless you're building your fighter for range. The fighter where I go past 10 tons is the F-25 since half its weight is fuel, at 800 fuel per engine. Notice the empty and full weight.

 

Even then, adding a third engine would only add to weight and be a nuisance.

 

On another note, me and @Abraxis (mostly Abraxis) have run into an interesting issue while testing. The spectated plane sometimes affects the outcome of the battles. To clear any possible conflict of interest, we've tested our own crafts and none of those in the leaderboard, notably my F-25 against his DN-59. He noticed a higher rate of victory for the side who wasn't viewed during the battle. However, both planes are very closely matched, so this might actually be a negligible issue other than between almost equal planes.

Still, to prevent this from happening, you could spectate different planes during the fights (Ex: first fight spectate the challenger, second fight the challenged, third fight the challenger.) and keep spectating the same model for the entire fight (Ex: switch to only the live doritos and never to the challenging plane). A more complicated version would be to have a "judge" craft on the ground and switch to it for the entirety of the fight. It would just be a structural plate to keep any team from targeting it and would guarantee there is no bias.

Edited December 13, 2017 by NotAnAimbot

[exbyde]

1 hour ago, NotAnAimbot said:

Again, you're doing something wrong if you need those many engines.

This design beats the dorito. Look at the weight and the number of engines (All one of them).

What does a basic non-spam plane need? About 4 missiles, 2 guns and their ammo, some jammers, a radar and a cockpit. 

Combined these weigh about five tons. With wings and a single engine, they weigh anywhere from 7 to 9 tons. If you add more engines, you're just adding useless weight, unless you're building your fighter for range. The fighter where I go past 10 tons is the F-25 since half its weight is fuel, at 800 fuel per engine. Notice the empty and full weight.

 

Even then, adding a third engine would only add to weight and be a nuisance.

 

On another note, me and @Abraxis (mostly Abraxis) have run into an interesting issue while testing. The spectated plane sometimes affects the outcome of the battles. To clear any possible conflict of interest, we've tested our own crafts and none of those in the leaderboard, notably my F-25 against his DN-59. He noticed a higher rate of victory for the side who wasn't viewed during the battle. However, both planes are very closely matched, so this might actually be a negligible issue other than between almost equal planes.

Still, to prevent this from happening, you could spectate different planes during the fights (Ex: first fight spectate the challenger, second fight the challenged, third fight the challenger.) and keep spectating the same model for the entire fight (Ex: switch to only the live doritos and never to the challenging plane). A more complicated version would be to have a "judge" craft on the ground and switch to it for the entirety of the fight. It would just be a structural plate to keep any team from targeting it and would guarantee there is no bias.

I did run a test on your novi, it did pretty well for itself, but was being beaten pretty consistently (3-1) against the mini val. First fights seem to have a different outcome than second and beyond, seems to be pretty consistent. Also noticed that if you leave a mouse cursor over certain parts of the BDA interface, aircraft will not fire guns. As i said, we can test on sunday.