Why build large passenger vessels at all?

[ShadowZone]

Here's the thing:

Since KSP in stock does not constrain oxygen, food or air for Kerbals, you can basically stuff one Kerbal in a small capsule and send him on his way for millennia. So why are any of us building larger crew capacity vehicles at all? Or include more than one science lab? Unless you are a heartless monster and kill your crew left and right, you don't need more than a handful of Kerbals. Building a massive space station for 288 Kerbals (like I did for my Jool colonisation mission, see also the GIF below) is pointless, really.

So, why do we do it?I am apparently not the only one, if I browse through a few screenshots and videos

For me, it's basically role playing, when I think about it. But please tell me your reasons, I would like to know your thoughts on this one.

 

[steuben]

1. Why not?

2. for the cool

3. for the challenge

4. for the realism

5. for the awesome

6. the general build stuff liquiding contest

7. for the cool

8. because we can

9. ???

10. Profit!

[The Aziz]

200 sure is ridiculous, but 30 is good. Why? Let's say you plan doing multipurpose Jool-5 mission. So there should be at least 3 Kerbals per surface base (pilot, engineer & scientist) assuming you have full blown base and maybe a rover, that makes already 15, plus 3 on every orbital station around the moons and Jool itself. There goes another 18. And maybe two (pilot and engineer) as the main crew of the ship that goes there. That makes it 30, solely for gameplay reasons.

[AngrybobH]

14 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

200 sure is ridiculous, but 30 is good. Why? Let's say you plan doing multipurpose Jool-5 mission. So there should be at least 3 Kerbals per surface base (pilot, engineer & scientist) assuming you have full blown base and maybe a rover, that makes already 15, plus 3 on every orbital station around the moons and Jool itself. There goes another 18. And maybe two (pilot and engineer) as the main crew of the ship that goes there. That makes it 30, solely for gameplay reasons.

That and I roleplay the idea of having living space and recreation areas aboard any long mission ships or bases. So, I may have capacity on any given ship for 50 or more but I might only have 10 or so kerbals on it.

[RizzoTheRat]

Philner's on his way to Duna sat in an external command seat.  **** him, if he couldn't take a joke he shouldn't have joined up!

 

(actually there's space in the hitchhiker, he just likes the view) 

Edited January 27, 2018 by RizzoTheRat

[Whirligig Girl]

For the role play aspects for sure. Sometimes you need more living space than crew capacity. Yes you can store the scientists in the science lab but their bed rooms will be in a different module. Being on your own for 5 years is mean to the Kerbals, as I imagine them being social creatures like humans. But you also don't want to limit them to just 2 or so other people, that gets tiring over enough time. I imagine a crew of 4-15 to be a reasonable number for a space voyage.

You know I wish we had to worry about Kerbals more. I want more to do with them. I've long been a proponent of the Kerbal/Probe dichotomy as a feature. Right now the only reason to send Kerbals anywhere is so you can see faces and walk on the surface. Probes are cheaper, smaller, etc.

The solution is for Kerbals to have sanity, health, and life support mechanics, but you get immediate control. Whereas probes are timeless hunks of metal that you have to wait for lightspeed delay to control them, either manually with delay (for something like a Mun or Minmus mission) or using a simple flight computer which you upload commands to. There could also be station modules which are science experiments which have to be operated by Kerbals, like the science lab now.

If Kerbals had sanity, health, and life support, bigger ships like this would be necessary or recommended for gameplay reasons. They can fly the ship in the small little cabin of the Mk1-2 pod, but for months or years long mission their health and sanity will deplete. Without food they'll die.

So I role play these aspects because I want them in stock. But I also don't play KSP that much anymore nowadays so I usually just end up flying tiny little test crafts for planet testing.

Edited January 26, 2018 by GregroxMun

[Atkara]

In my career save, I often take mining, rescue and tourism contracts, which can be done by remotely controlled vehicles. But if the said vehicles are crewed, the job can be done a lot more efficiently. And what better way to complete mining and rescues, when your vehicles and their crews are on-site already? And since your rescued kerbals and tourists need to get back home, you also need an interplanetary transportation network of sorts in place. Vessels with 32 passenger seats should be able to cover all needs.

Up to this point, it's all about practicality for me. Things become somewhat roleplay-ish, when I include crew rotation as an additional mission objective, for a flight to the 'x' planet/moon.

I say 'somewhat', because there's still the matter of training Kerbals to 5 stars. Unless you skip the training part through the options, the only way to do it is to get them to go places. Your on-site Kerbals have seen the region so, let's exchange them with others, bring them home and prep them for somewhere else. Otherwise, they're happy where they are, without ever complaining.

The purely roleplay part is me, wanting my guys & gals to 'know' they will see Kerbin again.

[Alpha 360]

I believe that Kerbals get lonely. Like Jeb and Val. They can easily get lonely because all they do is sit at the controls of their spacecraft. Bob usually is in a science lab so he's occupied. Bill, well, Bill isn't all there and so he can't measure the passage of time. Or feel comradery. Or any other sort of emotion. He's Bill. 

[Geonovast]

My claustrophobia sympathizes with the Kerbals.  If they leave the Kerbin system, I always make sure they're either frozen or have somewhere to stretch their legs.  I do have an LS mod, but it would be the same without it, like my Dres colonization.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Geonovast

[Corona688]

Tourism pays well.  Just built an eight-passenger craft for this.  Rescue contracts also, instead of sending a ship for every one you can gather them at a space station then bring them home in bulk.

The 200-kerbal things I don't get, but each to their own.

[Darkstar616]

I only ever stick with 3 or 4 kerbals at a time, at most.

My imagination doesn't stretch to video games, if something has a feature that isn't there I'm not going to pretend that it is. On a purely mechanical basis stock KSP gameplay doesn't support much more than 3 kerbals at a time (unless you're using that ridiculous passenger plane part).

Edited January 27, 2018 by Darkstar616

[Ty Tan Tu]

Depending on my mood, I use KSP for a lot of reasons. Mostly it is a problem solving game. "How WOULD you design a return mission from Eve?" "How can I design a mission to capture an asteroid and return it to a LKO?" I spend more time designing ships then flying ships.

Sometimes KSP is just my Zen Rock Garden. Work has been stressful lately. The move to Amazon's AWS has not been as smooth as Santa Clara thought it would be. Ugh!

So, I have a Minmus Station when I get home. It is a place I could imagine going to sleep in safe an sound. My Zen Rock Garden. I fiddle around the edges. Maybe I add a redundant electrical system, or send a rover so Jeb can explore the mountains on the horizon. But my Kerbals  always have a place to sleep and different modules to explore. I can zoom into the cabin views and see what it would be like to actually live on a space station on the surface of a different planet. 

Maybe it makes KSP more like city building game than a space exploration game, but for some reason, it helps me unwind.

[Martian Emigrant]

Why build large passenger vessels at all?

 

Well not often but in one case I wanted to terminate a career game.

I had done a few rescues and had a total of 88 Kerbal.

I built big to take all to Jool and get them all upgraded. https://imgur.com/a/TueFQ

That way they all retire with full pensions

 

 

 

Another time is was just so I could have Jool Station. For fun. https://imgur.com/a/s7cQE

 

 

ME

Edited January 27, 2018 by Martian Emigrant

[GoSlash27]

I'm with the OP on this. I send 4 Kerbals per expedition; one pilot to fly the mothership, one pilot to fly the lander, one engineer to fix the stuff that breaks, and one scientist to reset the experiments. Any more than that is asking for trouble IMO.

Best,
-Slashy

[The Aziz]

4 hours ago, GoSlash27 said:

I'm with the OP on this. I send 4 Kerbals per expedition; one pilot to fly the mothership, one pilot to fly the lander, one engineer to fix the stuff that breaks, and one scientist to reset the experiments. Any more than that is asking for trouble IMO.

Best,
-Slashy

What if something on the mothership breaks when the engineer is down on the surface? Or the other way round? Just for safety, better have 5. Or maybe you have science lab on the ship, and want to produce some sweet sweet science, but scientists is down on the surface? It's six already. Only for simple fly-land-return mission. Anything more complex needs more crew, amirite

[GoSlash27]

The Aziz,
 None of those scenarios have been a problem for me. I tend to keep my missions as simple as possible.

Best,
-Slashy

[RizzoTheRat]

Doesn't one of Roverdudes USI life support versions have something about needing more space available than the number of kerbals in order to keep them happy on long trips? 

I always used to send them out in multiples of 3 as that is an easy number to return to Kerbin in a pod.  My current crew return system uses Hitchhikers so I send them out in groups of 4.  Once I've researched the decent probe cores in not that bothered about pilots though, so scientist to reset experiments and engineers to hook up KAS/KIS refueling ports.

[Alpha 360]

I haven't unlocked good communications tech yet, or even good probe cores so pilots are of the upmost importance. I'm glad that I have all of my kerbals on level two after a Minmus landing so my pilot is decent. I find though, that the tech barrier is really a problem with larger communications locked behind 350 science or similar values. They really need to put better comms earlier on in the tech tree. 

Why does this matter? Well, the biggest craft I have lofted up to the skies carried three with room for four. I plan to launch a space station and then put a Dres Interplanetary Space Craft into orbit as well to hit the window coming up in 69 days. When I still haven't the tech for it. 

This Interplanetary craft will be able to hold 7 kerbals with plenty of room for them not to go insane. The reason there is seven kerbals is so they can all receive experience. Because that is just how the early interplanetary spacecraft game works. You send kerbals to other planets to level them up to level three and level four because that is useful. In science mode and sandbox mode, large motherships are just there for fun. Because it is very fun to put one together. Or to at least attempt to. 

[KerikBalm]

Role play and expeditions. If I'm going interplanetary, I'll want at least 1 engineer for an ISRU, possibly two for and ISRU on, ike for example, and an ISRU that is part of a Duna surface base for example. Then I'm going to want 2 scientists for a lab (if career mode), and 2 pilots so that I can have a remote control point for unmanned craft.

So thats... 6 kerbals, I do 3 male and 3 female, for RP reasons. More than that? I make vessels that can house and support more... but I don't really send more than 6 kerbals anywhere at once.

However, if its career, and I want to send 6 kerbals to Duna, 6 to laythe... and I also have mod destinations that I want to send 6 crew to (Rald, Tekto), and I also have destinations that I want to send 3 kerbals to (pilot, engineer, scientist), then I may want a lot of level 3 kerbonauts... so I sometimes make large capacity vessels to take 20 kerbals to the surface of Mun, the surface of Minmus, and just outside kerbin SOI before returning them.

But with an update that enables leveling kerbals up automatically, or with a science lab, its not so appealing anymore

Edited January 27, 2018 by KerikBalm

[overkill13]

5 hours ago, RizzoTheRat said:

Doesn't one of Roverdudes USI life support versions have something about needing more space available than the number of kerbals in order to keep them happy on long trips? 

Yes, Roverdude's USI Life Support, in addition to the standard "supplies" resource, calculates living space and after a period of time the Kerbals go on strike and become tourists (though they can still space walk) until you return them to Kerbin.  More space and certain amenities (rotating habs, cupolas, etc) increase the habitable time and additional Kerbals reduces it.  The Kerbalism mod also calculates this along with it's other LS functions.

[GluttonyReaper]

8 hours ago, overkill13 said:

Yes, Roverdude's USI Life Support, in addition to the standard "supplies" resource, calculates living space and after a period of time the Kerbals go on strike and become tourists (though they can still space walk) until you return them to Kerbin.  More space and certain amenities (rotating habs, cupolas, etc) increase the habitable time and additional Kerbals reduces it.  The Kerbalism mod also calculates this along with it's other LS functions.

Interestingly, Snacks LS actually does the same thing, just in a bit of a roundabout way. It may have changed since I last played with it (it's been a while), but if you install Snacks without any supporting mods, it only adds LS resources to crew modules, with extra bonuses for Hitchhikers, with no standalone LS containers - hence, the only way to stock up on supplies for longer duration missions is to add more crew modules

[Geonovast]

On 1/26/2018 at 1:50 PM, RizzoTheRat said:

Reminds me of one of my very first trips to Eve.  I think that's Val, decided to get out and ride in the rover for the ~20 minute burn.  IIRC, I forgot she was there and she spent like 2 years in that seat.

[Pipcard]

On my main sandbox save, I pretend that each 3.75 m Omnibus crew container (from the Taurus HCV mod by bsquiklehausen), which has a maximum capacity of 8, has a capacity of 3 for permanent bases. (balancing part count with looking like a proper, not-too-crowded base)

Therefore, this Minmus base, which has 4 habs (and 1 lab), has 12 Kerbals on it.

 

On 1/26/2018 at 1:56 PM, GregroxMun said:

You know I wish we had to worry about Kerbals more. I want more to do with them. I've long been a proponent of the Kerbal/Probe dichotomy as a feature. Right now the only reason to send Kerbals anywhere is so you can see faces and walk on the surface. Probes are cheaper, smaller, etc.

The solution is for Kerbals to have sanity, health, and life support mechanics, but you get immediate control. Whereas probes are timeless hunks of metal that you have to wait for lightspeed delay to control them, either manually with delay (for something like a Mun or Minmus mission) or using a simple flight computer which you upload commands to. There could also be station modules which are science experiments which have to be operated by Kerbals, like the science lab now.

If Kerbals had sanity, health, and life support, bigger ships like this would be necessary or recommended for gameplay reasons. They can fly the ship in the small little cabin of the Mk1-2 pod, but for months or years long mission their health and sanity will deplete. Without food they'll die.

So I role play these aspects because I want them in stock. But I also don't play KSP that much anymore nowadays so I usually just end up flying tiny little test crafts for planet testing.

If you want to worry about Kerbals more, then RoverDude's Modular Kolonization System might be for you. I haven't played with it yet (it's pretty complex), but there's a life support and habitation space mechanic (so you can't just cram Kerbals into Mk. 1 lander cans for an entire interplanetary mission), and you can make self-sustaining off-world colonies.

[Archgeek]

On 1/27/2018 at 12:44 PM, overkill13 said:

Yes, Roverdude's USI Life Support, in addition to the standard "supplies" resource, calculates living space and after a period of time the Kerbals go on strike and become tourists (though they can still space walk) until you return them to Kerbin.

This honestly needs a wee bit of tweaking (or at least it did when I last watched someone playing with it) so that kerbs kindly stop being on strike when they're being returned home.  It's a bit disturbing to have a pilot burn up on re-entry because they were too homesick to orient their pod for the return home.

Perhaps have them resume duties (possibly limiting pilot abilities to hold retrograde) if the ship is in Kerbin SoI and either sub-orbital or the player has set a manuver node that sends the ship sub-orbital and the vessel has sufficient delta-v to complete the burn.

[NSEP]

Kerbals are cute. Human has to make cute thing happy, not sad and alone.