Bad science in fiction Hall of Shame

[NSEP]

Wattpad is a %^$*# goldmine of complete nonsense when it comes to realism. The Sci-Fi there is 0.1% Sci and 99.9% Fi. Here an example:

Since 2307, boys and girls were seperated, boys went to Mars, girls went to Venus. Seriously, what type of messed up society thinks its a good idea to split men and women by bringing them to seperate worlds? This, type of sci-FI is what floats to the main page.

Also, it seems like all the sci-FI stories that float to the top must have some kind of adolecent/teen girl as main character, that either has to fall in love, be experimented on, or is a superhero. No rockets, no space opera, no space exploration, just teens. Heck, there is another story on the front page that is about a Rainbow Alien who flies around in her rocket to find friends. Seriously, what?

[YNM]

51 minutes ago, NSEP said:

Since 2307, boys and girls were seperated, boys went to Mars, girls went to Venus.

Wow, do they go and replicate like amoeba ?

[DDE]

7 hours ago, purpleivan said:

Hands on experience - no matter how technologically advanced, no weaponry bigger than you can carry seems to exist. No missiles, tanks, aircraft etc. Just guys shooting at each other with ray guns.

Laymen cannot into combined arms, whether sci-fi, modern settings, or historical.

Edited February 16, 2018 by DDE

[DAL59]

2 hours ago, NSEP said:

Wattpad is a %^$*# goldmine of complete nonsense when it comes to realism.

Were you expecting otherwise? 

In Star Wars, battle could have gone so much better if the x-wings turned off their engines, flipped around, and flew backwards.  

Or they should have rear mounted weapons.  

[ARS]

Is this scene possible?

(Seen from above-earth perspective)

-Main character's ship in orbit on 6 o'clock position, moving clockwise

-Enemy orbital platform in orbit on 12 o'clock, moving clockwise

-Relay satellites in orbit on 9 and 3 o'clock position, moving clockwise

-Main character ship's engines faced retrograde and fire the thrusters to lower it's velocity. Craft's orbital trajectory changed into suborbital trajectory for reentry (it's not yet entering the atmosphere)

-Enemy orbital platform fires a tactical nuclear missile to hit the main character's ship before it enters the atmosphere from 12 o'clock position

-Detecting nuclear launch signature from hacked relay satellite, the main character used the relay satellite to track the nuclear missile (which is still en route from position 12 to 1) and calculate it's speed, trajectory and altitude

-The main character activates the rail cannon on their ship and synchronize the tactical feed obtained from relay satellite and used it to calculate shooting trajectory and gravitic compensation for the rail cannon

-The rail cannon is fired (from position 7 o'clock). It's projectile trajectory slingshotted along earth's horizon curvature due to earth's gravity and hit the nuclear missile, destroying it (on position 1 o'clock)

-The detonation created EMP effect, obscuring enemy targeting sensors, allowing the main character's ship to enter the atmosphere

Is this possible? Using orbital mechanic?

Edited February 17, 2018 by ARS

[kerbiloid]

14 hours ago, NSEP said:

Seriously, what type of messed up society thinks its a good idea to split men and women by bringing them to seperate worlds?

Private schools.

(at least I saw that in cinema)

Edited February 17, 2018 by kerbiloid

[DDE]

13 hours ago, DAL59 said:

In Star Wars, battle could have gone so much better if the x-wings turned off their engines, flipped around, and flew backwards.

Or they should have rear mounted weapons.

Ayyy....

Edited February 17, 2018 by DDE

[PB666]

On 2/16/2018 at 2:19 AM, kerbiloid said:

Muons hardly have a meaning there.
But if a magic setting were scientific, you could exclaim: "What does this stupid Dumbledore do. The magic doesn't work that way. He would put three spoons of the frog blood, because..." — not because you've read a recipe, but because you have alculated this yourself...
...and a page later Dumbledore should exclaim: "What a stupid I am. I need three spoons of frog blood, wasn't that obvious!"

So, in a scientific setting you could make your own researches and predictions.

Magic like this?

If C, h and G are set to 1 then T = δd and since G travels at C then T = D and time, gravity and entropy do not exist then E = f = 1/d .    ..      .     ..  "when the Moon is in the second house and Jupiter aligns with mars then . .  " the universe is a holographic projection with indecisive cats. Lets see . . . . Y = Mx + b forget that caveman math . . . .  Y = Mx + iN where p(Y) = Y times its complex conjugate and i must always be imaginary. [T exists only because, apparently, we are using the wrong scale, if we used the right scale T would become a dimension of space, so that it is said so]

It is said that no violations of quantum mechanics have ever been found. It should be written that no natural problem can be observed and quantified that the insertion of imaginary numbers into equations cannot solve. If you cannot arrive at the number you desire, just add more complex orthogonal components to the state vectors and create nth dimensional operators, there is always a solution. And if that doesn't solve the problem just spawn parallel universes or 19 more dimensions.

Replace 3 spoons of frog blood  with N=∞  |A_N> X then create an infinite number of states and everything becomes obviously true, just improbable. All problems solved. There is a probability that a black hole can, instead of creating Hawking's radiation, create the Starship Enterprise.

If you want to stump a quantum physicists ask them why they always change the units . . somewhere along the line they will mention quantum space and/or time. Then ask them to describe in detail the nature of quantum gravity for which they are basing their assumptions. You will get a very dumb look. 

 

[kerbiloid]

5 hours ago, PB666 said:

If C, h and G are set to 1 then T = δd and since G travels at C then T = D and time, gravity and entropy do not exist then E = f = 1/d .    ..      .     ..  "when the Moon is in the second house and Jupiter aligns with mars then . .  " the universe is a holographic projection with indecisive cats. Lets see . . . . Y = Mx + b forget that caveman math . . . .  Y = Mx + iN where p(Y) = Y times its complex conjugate and i must always be imaginary. [T exists only because, apparently, we are using the wrong scale, if we used the right scale T would become a dimension of space, so that it is said so]

It is said that no violations of quantum mechanics have ever been found. It should be written that no natural problem can be observed and quantified that the insertion of imaginary numbers into equations cannot solve. If you cannot arrive at the number you desire, just add more complex orthogonal components to the state vectors and create nth dimensional operators, there is always a solution. And if that doesn't solve the problem just spawn parallel universes or 19 more dimensions.

Replace 3 spoons of frog blood  with N=∞  |A_N> X then create an infinite number of states and everything becomes obviously true, just improbable. All problems solved. There is a probability that a black hole can, instead of creating Hawking's radiation, create the Starship Enterprise.

If you can understand all these words and predict your experiment results, then this is a sci-fi setting for you.

If you cast this like a Verbal Waterfall spell without understanding, in hope to discourage somebody, then this is a fantasy setting for you.

[KerikBalm]

13 hours ago, ARS said:

Is this scene possible?

(Seen from above-earth perspective)

-Main character's ship in orbit on 6 o'clock position, moving clockwise

-Enemy orbital platform in orbit on 12 o'clock, moving clockwise

-Relay satellites in orbit on 9 and 3 o'clock position, moving clockwise

-Main character ship's engines faced retrograde and fire the thrusters to lower it's velocity. Craft's orbital trajectory changed into suborbital trajectory for reentry (it's not yet entering the atmosphere)

-Enemy orbital platform fires a tactical nuclear missile to hit the main character's ship before it enters the atmosphere from 12 o'clock position

Stopping you right there... unless that missile has some super compact "torch ship" drive that can provide constant and high thrust (requiring a really high Isp and high thrust for ludicrous energy output)", there is no way that a missile fired from the other side of the planet is going to get to the ship before it enters the atmosphere.

[PB666]

2 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

If you can understand all these words and predict your experiment results, then this is a sci-fi setting for you.

If you cast this like a Verbal Waterfall spell without understanding, in hope to discourage somebody, then this is a fantasy setting for you.

You mean like someone on star-trek understanding how to pilot a alien space craft without an instruction manual written in their language.

We always look for understanding in our Universe even when it is apparent that the understanding does not exist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potentiality_and_actuality or for a more modern example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretations_of_quantum_mechanics . There is a rather good possibility that the Schrodinger wave function and dirac's complex implimentation of states is required because of the flexibility of quantum spacetime. We see wave functions because we want to see patterns, even if such smooth patterns do not exist, and at a scale the Universe is not-deterministic no matter how badly we want it to be.   

 

[ARS]

3 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

Stopping you right there... unless that missile has some super compact "torch ship" drive that can provide constant and high thrust (requiring a really high Isp and high thrust for ludicrous energy output)", there is no way that a missile fired from the other side of the planet is going to get to the ship before it enters the atmosphere.

Okay then... And how about curving/ slingshotting a projectile across the planet's horizon by using it's gravity well to hit the target on the other side of the planet? Is that possible?

[linuxgurugamer]

15 minutes ago, ARS said:

Okay then... And how about curving/ slingshotting a projectile across the planet's horizon by using it's gravity well to hit the target on the other side of the planet? Is that possible?

Ever hear of an ICBM?

[ARS]

1 hour ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Ever hear of an ICBM?

Ah I see. I thought ICBM was guided instead of using ballistic trajectory

Edited February 18, 2018 by ARS

[linuxgurugamer]

1 hour ago, ARS said:

Ah I see. I thought ICBM was guided instead of using ballistic trajectory

Once the engine burns out, it's ballistic

[Bill Phil]

5 hours ago, ARS said:

Okay then... And how about curving/ slingshotting a projectile across the planet's horizon by using it's gravity well to hit the target on the other side of the planet? Is that possible?

Well why wouldn't the ship entering the atmosphere deploy its own nuke for an EMP effect?

[sevenperforce]

On 2/16/2018 at 3:19 AM, kerbiloid said:

But if a magic setting were scientific, you could exclaim: "What does this stupid Dumbledore do. The magic doesn't work that way. He would put three spoons of the frog blood, because..." — not because you've read a recipe, but because you have alculated this yourself...
...and a page later Dumbledore should exclaim: "What a stupid I am. I need three spoons of frog blood, wasn't that obvious!"

So, in a scientific setting you could make your own researches and predictions.

Well, let's keep in mind, in the HP universe, someone had to write the recipe book. That someone was a wizard or witch who determined the correct amount of frog blood by a combination of theory and experiment. If a nuke hit Hogwarts and wiped out all their knowledge, wizards and witches could still rediscover the laws and rules governing magic.

If the reader knew enough about the mechanisms by which magic operates, then yes, the reader could figure out the recipes in advance of the characters. Of course, Rowling didn't dial it down quite that precisely. 

[kerbiloid]

6 hours ago, PB666 said:

You mean like someone on star-trek understanding how to pilot a alien space craft without an instruction manual written in their language.

No I mean that either a reader, basing on either known facts from real life taken as a part of setting (usually), or on accurately described laws of the written universe given to him as an exposition (but not every time at the last moment when some character needs to redefine them on purpose,  can evaluate, make conclusion and get predictable reproducable results which would describe the events happening in this book (or movie, if you prefer) at least not less accurately than the characters do the same.
The more there axiomatic, dogmatic, arbitrary expositions or the lesser is the part of the events which those research and predictions can describe without handwaving from the characters, the lesser is applicable "scientific".
Of course, this is is about the external, "physical" part of the happening, not about psychological, emotional and other questions which will be described in exposition manner in any case, unless the author has an aim to accurately research the psychology from formal point of view, rather than use it as a tool to effect the emotional sphere of the reader.

(Feel free to add "hereby" and "therefore" on you own).

Say, Jules Verne described the age where steam and electricity is a miracle, and he tried to base on known facts from real life, he accurately studied geographical maps, the industrial plants and so on.
From modern pov probably we could say that 50% of his books is a graphomany with walls of numbers and geographical wiki quotes (from time to time erroneus).

While Chronicles of Amber introduces new facts without any background, just on author's wish.
Harry Potter's magic works just on handwaving. Rather than magic, say, in Ultima 8 or several other games where you can make experiments and sometimes discover new spells basing on your knowledge (rudimentally, of course, but that's much more than in absolute majority of other settings).

6 hours ago, PB666 said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpretations_of_quantum_mechanics .

Quantum mechanics is a part of our rl settings.
Scientific method is absolutely not limited with the physical laws of our real world, it's an abstract logical construction applicable to any structurized information.
In early XIX there was no idea about quantum mechanics. But the science was. If they weren't discovereed quantum mechanics or if t were erroneus idea, nothing would happen with the science itself, just only theory less.

20 minutes ago, sevenperforce said:

in the HP universe, someone had to write the recipe book.

Yes, but you can't research and predict anything. You don' have the book, that book is just mentioned when the author needs to handwave something again.
They just give you new spells , possibly most stupid ones I ever met, full degradation compared to Ultima, Kniaz or so, just say two Latinized words and wave with a wand, while, say, Ultima 8 Pagan (part of Ultima setting) has a whole bunch of tables of sigils, ingredients and words, at least three intersecting pantheons with explained place of each of deities, 4 (3 available) ways of magic, looking and working absolutely diferent, and so on. Arcanum has something like that but in light version.
You can even experiment with this and sometimes make spells working from very partial starting information.
Compared to this Hogwartz looks like an asylum for complete morons hunting cockroaches with a hammer.

So, in HP you can get dogmatically/axiomatically every new fact. That's not what we call a science.

Edited February 18, 2018 by kerbiloid

[DDE]

7 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Once the engine burns out, it's ballistic

Depends on the design of the upper stage, which tends to have hypergolic maneuvering thrusters, and how much of a dV margin was added when turning it into an ASAT.

Say, by dropping some of the nukes from this Sineva:

It ditches the main engine on the third stage after the main burn, but those four tractor thrusters should give it quite a bit of maneuverability. The forward compartment is dree to receive a different electronics payload - and it's not like the US had a working radar-guided MIRV anyway.

[PB666]

8 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Scientific method is absolutely not limited with the physical laws of our real world, it's an abstract logical construction applicable to any structurized information.

 

In early XIX there was no idea about quantum mechanics. But the science was. If they weren't discovereed quantum mechanics or if t were erroneus idea, nothing would happen with the science itself, just only theory less.

My response was moved to the "Does science need to be proven thread"

 

 

 

[kerbiloid]

Starflight One.

Connecting the Space Shuttle and the spaceplane with a flexible tunnel _{(probably taken from a hairdryer)} to evacuate passengers was not very brilliant idea itself.
But how did they hermetically attach it to the door? The spaceplane is suborbital, it appeared in LEO just occasionally.
Also comparing the tunnel being extended and already extended, there is no feeling that it withstands ~1 atm pressure.

If a shuttle would be reentering the atmosphere right in front of the spaceplane, unlikely it would protect the latter. Probably it would just destabilize it.

While the spaceplane is aerobraking there is no visible overload on the passengers' faces.

[DDE]

2 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Starflight One.

Connecting the Space Shuttle and the spaceplane with a flexible tunnel _{(probably taken from a hairdryer)} to evacuate passengers was not very brilliant idea itself.
But how did they hermetically attach it to the door? The spaceplane is suborbital, it appeared in LEO just occasionally.
Also comparing the tunnel being extended and already extended, there is no feeling that it withstands ~1 atm pressure.

If a shuttle would be reentering the atmosphere right in front of the spaceplane, unlikely it would protect the latter. Probably it would just destabilize it.

While the spaceplane is aerobraking there is no visible overload on the passengers' faces.

This is your problems? Not the part where they end up having an Epstein situation?

Quote

Waiting until the hydrogen fuel runs out is now their only option, but they risk accelerating out of the atmosphere and into orbit. Gilliam is concerned that if there is a flaw in the structure, Starflight would break up.

The fuel runs out just as Starflight reaches orbital velocity/altitude.

Those are some Kerbal dV margins right there.

Edited February 18, 2018 by DDE

[YNM]

17 hours ago, ARS said:

Okay then... And how about curving/ slingshotting a projectile across the planet's horizon by using it's gravity well to hit the target on the other side of the planet? Is that possible?

Possible with the right trajectory.

The reason why ICBMs have a "re-entry motor" of sorts is to enhance accuracy. Much like all deep-space missions performs correction burns.

[DDE]

2 hours ago, YNM said:

The reason why ICBMs have a "re-entry motor" of sorts is to enhance accuracy. Much like all deep-space missions performs correction burns.

Partly that - but partly because individual MIRVs have no or at most attitude thrusters (usually they're just spin-stabilized); so the bus performs a number of lateral burns as it disperses each payload.

 

Edited February 18, 2018 by DDE

[YNM]

3 hours ago, DDE said:

... But partly because individual MIRVs have no or at most attitude thrusters (usually they're just spin-stabilized); so the bus performs a number of lateral burns as it disperses each payload.

Interesting... Indeed it makes sense.

Edited February 18, 2018 by YNM