Bad science in fiction Hall of Shame

[DDE]

19 hours ago, Gargamel said:

Armegeddon is one of the worst movies ever made scientifically, but it's still a fun movie to watch, merely for the ride it goes on. 

As I keep repeating in this thread, it's also incredibly amusing to see the fruits of the labor of actual science consultants stucking out from beneath the dreck. Someone told them about orbital propellant depots, and a Lunar slingshot to match velocity.

[JcoolTheShipbuilder]

Can flat earth be considered bad sci if?

wait... there is no sci fit flat earth movie as that would probably kill 99% of everyone’s braincells...

hmm there probably is... hmm..

 

oh hey new page

Edited April 24, 2021 by JcoolTheShipbuilder

[kerbiloid]

1 minute ago, JcoolTheShipbuilder said:

Can flat earth be considered bad sci if?

If it's from Terry Pratchett - no. Discworld is absolutely real, and scientific. Call the Unseen University for details.

[JcoolTheShipbuilder]

7 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

If it's from Terry Pratchett - no. Discworld is absolutely real, and scientific. Call the Unseen University for details.

Disc world? Hmm... interesting

edit: ooo interesting book series

i like reading lol

Edited April 24, 2021 by JcoolTheShipbuilder

[Codraroll]

1 minute ago, JcoolTheShipbuilder said:

Disc world? Hmmm interesting

Let's just say that the flatness of the Disc is one of the least significant problems it has, from a scientific realism standpoint. 

[JcoolTheShipbuilder]

Just now, Codraroll said:

Let's just say that the flatness of the Disc is one of the least significant problems it has, from a scientific realism standpoint. 

That would be a sc- *sees that the flatness is an insignificant problems in scientific realism* o.. k then lol

[kerbiloid]

56 minutes ago, JcoolTheShipbuilder said:

interesting book series

Several mini-series also. Some like them, some don't. Imho, very atmospheric.

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0695332/

P.S.
Actually, a satirical fantasy. But scientific, from the local point of view...

54 minutes ago, Codraroll said:

Let's just say that the flatness of the Disc is one of the least significant problems it has, from a scientific realism standpoint. 

They performed a space travel, btw. To look at the turtle from below.

Edited April 24, 2021 by kerbiloid

[DDE]

1 hour ago, JcoolTheShipbuilder said:

Can flat earth be considered bad sci if?

wait... there is no sci fit flat earth movie as that would probably kill 99% of everyone’s braincells...

hmm there probably is... hmm..

Brace yourself.

You know Tolkien, LoTR, that sort of stuff? Well, he takes a rather... compromise position.

First, the world was flat. But then the equivalent of Atlanteans decided to acquire immortality from the gods by force, and the flat world was made a sphere.

https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Change_of_the_World

[kerbiloid]

Also Silmarillion is all about the radiation labour safety.

They weren't careful with the glowing stones - and see what happened.

[magnemoe]

2 hours ago, Codraroll said:

Let's just say that the flatness of the Disc is one of the least significant problems it has, from a scientific realism standpoint. 

This, now they even launched and spaceship from it once, powered by dragonlings as in tiny dragons who tend to explode if angry, scared or bored
So they used staging. Purpose of the mission was to  reach mount Olympus the locations of the gods and stop an group of old disgruntled adventurers, the leader was the emperor of their China from setting off an fantasy nuke there as it would disrupt the flow of magic killing the world. 
Yes that one is a bit over the top  
Love the DIscworld series, no issue with an fantasy setting as long as its fun and make sense internally.

That is you are not making up new powers who change everything just for an plot point.  or part of the reasons all hate the last jedi. 
Hyperspace ramming tilt the the strategy upside down. 
In it self its realistic:  Armored ships with rifled barrels and exploding shells made the ship of the line obsolete and 100 years later nukes and guided missiles made battleships obsolete. 
However this was not some new idea developed by the rebels in an year long black project, it was an know tactic used by an politician then the situation was desperate. 
Well why not use thousands of droid ships with hyperspace. 
Yes it looked cool but destroyed the logic in the universe. As an secret super weapon for the rebels wold work if done well. 

[wumpus]

13 hours ago, JcoolTheShipbuilder said:

That would be a sc- *sees that the flatness is an insignificant problems in scientific realism* o.. k then lol

The Turtle Moves.  And also provides gravity.  The Turtle's physiology is barely touched on.  And how the elephants that stand on him survive while motionlessly supporting the disc is never discussed.

Don't forget that the speed of light across the Disc is particularly strange (slow).  But since it is going through an atmosphere it is at least non-impossible.  Don't ask how any living creature breathes such an atmosphere.

11 hours ago, DDE said:

Brace yourself.

You know Tolkien, LoTR, that sort of stuff? Well, he takes a rather... compromise position.

First, the world was flat. But then the equivalent of Atlanteans decided to acquire immortality from the gods by force, and the flat world was made a sphere.

https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Change_of_the_World

It's worse than that.  As far as the Elves are concerned, the world is still flat.  Legolas can look for hundreds (maybe less, but far too many) leagues across a featureless flat plain of Rohan and see features that would dip below the horizon for mortals.  No idea if Chistopher Tolkien and Guy Gavriel Kay retconned that in some way to match "the straight road" mentioned in your link.  J. R. R. Tolkien was a medievalist at heart and unlikely to be terribly concerned with scientific accuracy, even for things such as the Earth being round.  When your idea of 'that silly modern literature that all went wrong' [not meant to be a specific JRRT quote, just compared to people griping about modern tastes]  starts with *Chaucer*, you're quite the medievalist.

[edit] I had to mention in a youtube comment (you are all free to read it back at me, a la xkcd) about JRRT using the modern archery target colors to describe the accuracy of a statement.  But medieval archery targets looked nothing like the sort. [/edit]

10 hours ago, magnemoe said:

That is you are not making up new powers who change everything just for an plot point.  or part of the reasons all hate the last jedi. 

Wasn't that the plot of an entire year of TOS trek?

Kirk: "don't Vulcans have the ability to [magically fix the problem] while floating upside down?

Spock: "yes, but it requires great concentration"

afterwards

Spock: "maybe it wasn't that hard after all."

Somehow TOS is as close to literary sci-fi as pop culture gets.  Which isn't that close.

Edited April 25, 2021 by wumpus
avoiding double posting. plus a later edit (that created the underlineing)

[kerbiloid]

The Discworld explains a lot about local physics.

The light speed is limited and slow, so while the small sun is orbiting around the turtle, the day and night replace each other due to the duration of the light travel from the sun, for example.

[kerbiloid]

Many movies.
In such moments, why do they never clap?

Spoiler

This would make it collapse into a blackhole, which can be thrown at the aim and explode like any lightweight blackhole does.

Also it would be a temporary source of the lethal radiation.

[Codraroll]

20 hours ago, JcoolTheShipbuilder said:

That would be a sc- *sees that the flatness is an insignificant problems in scientific realism* o.. k then lol

Not insignificant. Just that Discworld has even bigger scientific realism problems than that. The Disc is spinning on the shoulders of four giant elephants standing on a ten-thousand-mile long turtle, for a start. There is a giant waterfall over the rim of the Disc, and the only thing known about why the seas don't empty is that "arrangements are made" to get the water back on the Disc again. The sun and the moon orbit the Disc but pass above the back of the turtle, meaning that the elephants occasionally have to move a leg to let the celestial bodies pass. 

Then again, it's repeatedly said that this is all possible due to copious amounts of magic and the supervision of some gods who were tired of the usual "ball of rock" type of world building.  During the "spaceflight novel" mentioned by some above here, the plot revolves around an attempt to assassinate the gods using the magical equivalent of a nuclear bomb, and the author explains how that entire world would go south immediately if the source of magic was destroyed. 

17 hours ago, wumpus said:

Don't forget that the speed of light across the Disc is particularly strange (slow).  But since it is going through an atmosphere it is at least non-impossible.  Don't ask how any living creature breathes such an atmosphere.

I think it's stated somewhere in the later books that the Disc has two types of light. The slow type that spreads across the landscape like syrup (that's how the Disc has time zones), but also another, faster type that allows the former to be observed (and has been found to serve no purpose apart from that).

[kerbiloid]

Btw.
In the Philip Jose Farmer "World of Tiers" novel the artificial world is like a Tower of Hanoi with flat levels (correspoding to various cultural epochs).
Beneath there is a a rock hanging "down" (like the flying rocks in "Avatar", but this is a planet itself).
Though, it's not as detailed. But contains some thoughts about artificial creatures designed to populate it with life, like centaurs and others.

One of next books in same series ("The Lavalite World") contains a permanently tranforming planet(s), like in lavalamp.
And also there are described some more primitive particular planets. 
Portals are used everywhere,

[magnemoe]

20 hours ago, wumpus said:

Kirk: "don't Vulcans have the ability to [magically fix the problem] while floating upside down?

Spock: "yes, but it requires great concentration"

afterwards

Spock: "maybe it wasn't that hard after all."

Somehow TOS is as close to literary sci-fi as pop culture gets.  Which isn't that close.

And this is why both star trek and star wars are popcorn shows. 
Now Star wars get an benefit because it don't pretend to be anything than fantasy. Still fantasy has to make sense internally. 
Star trek fair worse in my opinion as it try to be realistic and fails very hard, having lower budgets  help in the failing. 

 

[kerbiloid]

1 hour ago, magnemoe said:

Spock: "yes, but it requires great concentration"

Spock: "maybe it wasn't that hard after all."

***

"Vulcanian science. Indistinguishable from magic.
Ask your regional dealer for details."

 

 

Edited April 25, 2021 by kerbiloid

[wumpus]

2 hours ago, magnemoe said:

And this is why both star trek and star wars are popcorn shows. 
Now Star wars get an benefit because it don't pretend to be anything than fantasy. Still fantasy has to make sense internally. 
Star trek fair worse in my opinion as it try to be realistic and fails very hard, having lower budgets  help in the failing. 

I don't think Star Trek has tried since the early movies, and clearly gave up early in Next Generation when it worked better as a soap opera than as science fiction.

They are just stuck with a lot of "pretending to be realistic" inertia and only make a nod to realism in getting close to the right words in the technobabble.

[tater]

 

It was OK, but I agree with the other comments regarding places it could have been substantially improved. The cycler spacecraft was well done (nice, Scott).

Now for my issues (which is annoying, it was so close). Spoilers in the spoiler dohicky.

Spoiler

 

Huge problem: It was shocking that a single point of failure was so trivial in size/complexity without a spare—literally pool the collective novelty coffee mugs worth of mass to have a spare—meanwhile the LiOH spares are huge, one fewer canister could have been 2-3 spares on the primary.

Barely thought out solution: Maybe somehow Michael was supposed to load the spares, and was injured first having removed the old spares, so they never got loaded? Mission control could say they noticed a problem last trip, and sent 2 new redesigned spares, and then they were not loaded.

 

Dumb problem: The life support part that broke was in the same compartment where Michael got stuck I think. That had to be the ascent vehicle that took the crew to the cycler. Why is the cycler life support not on the cycler?

Solution: Make that part breaking unconnected to finding Michael. They notice a problem from data, then hunt it down.

 

Problem: Since they clearly dump the booster counter mass each trip and despin it for docking, why not despin it for this emergency? They must have RCS to do this, cutting the booster loose under spin would be a Bad Idea™. So despin, EVA, and done. 

Q&D solution: The coronal mass ejection while obviously overly convenient from a plot standpoint could still exist. The climb aspect goes away, obviously, and harder to film because now ship is 0 g. Show the passage of time, and have the required transfers be in not 1 trip, but many trips over time such that a few happen, then they have to rush back (and maybe a tank is lost as a result). Perhaps the available tanks are small enough they have to make the trip every few days, and losing even one make that troublesome? Or they could have the same leak issue with the transfer, which sets a time limit, but make the limit still take multiple trips (trips much shorter with the tank retracted).

It's actually hard to come up with "best" solutions, but I think it could clearly have been much better with a couple changes.

 

A very near miss, with some thought it could have been done better.

[wumpus]

1 hour ago, tater said:

A very near miss, with some thought it could have been done better.

Hard to beat the classic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cold_Equations_(The_Twilight_Zone)

But probably beat the one I first thought of:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stowaway_to_the_Moon

[tater]

It's actually sort of hard to do it right. Getting someone accidentally on a spaceflight is hard enough that suspension of disbelief is required just for that.

If you imagine spaceflight such that it is slightly more plausible (much more common, less insanely risk averse), then the margins are likely so much higher it doesn't matter.

You could have a regular mission, minus the plot around how a stranger gets treated, and the life support fails in such a way the same math is required, and you could still tell the story, that might make more sense. An Apollo 13 sort of situation where 1 has to die that others might live.

The "outsider" aspect could easily be put back in by having one of the astronauts being a replacement. Team trained, and a backup crew was added at the last minute (like Apollo 13, actually). You could even involve the new guy in whatever causes the accident that requires the tough choices.

[kerbiloid]

Just read the wiki about Avatar-2.
All protagonists and antagonists will revive and return...

Not that it's a bad science, but soon they will be more immortaller than Freddy, Jason, and Marvel heroes.

Also, a significant part of the move will happen underwater, so it's interesting...  will they ship Aquaman?

Edited April 26, 2021 by kerbiloid

[StrandedonEarth]

5 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Also, a significant part of the move will happen underwater, so it's interesting

Sooooooo... Aquatar?

[kerbiloid]

Maleficent: Mistress of Evil (2019)

1.
Where did the castle guards get so many balls from ball bearings?
They live in a faery-to-medieval epoch, while such accurate ball bearings appeared during the industrial revolution.

2.
Does the Maleficent horns position depend on the flight mode?
Say, "chin forwards, horns to back" in subsonic mode, while "horn tips forwards" - in supersonic?

3.
How can a whole herd of the horned daemons get enough energy in the snowed wasteland to fly?

4.
When she breaks through the window glasses, does she break it with face, with forehead, or with horns?
Probably, the authors couldn't decide, too, as she does it in nearly vertical ascent.

5.
Is the set of forest mutants in the beginning toxic? Radioactive? Providing any other kind of hostile activity?
Is the radiation level already safe in that place?
How can they reproduce, when their population is obviously insufficient?

Edited May 13, 2021 by kerbiloid

[benzman]

Well - I haven't seen it but I guess you shouldn't expect too much from a film with a title like that.