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[WIP] Infernal Robotics - Next

Rudolf Meier

By Rudolf Meier
in KSP1 Mod Development

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Boyanski

Boyanski

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Just now, Rudolf Meier said:

there are parts with and without motor... some can move some not... in the VAB/SPH you can move all of them (for construction it's handy and you can also put them into a specific position and lock them like that) ... but in flight, those uncontrolled parts cannot move... except by... gravitation, drag, other outer forces...

Then how come, they actually move when KJR Next is installed, but unpredictably and not able to be controlled?

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Rudolf Meier

Rudolf Meier

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did they not move with another KJR? ... like KJR continued? ... so then, this is because KJR continued is not compatible with IR Next and locked them... KJR Next is compatible and because of that they are not locked and can move... why they move after loading the scene? because then gravity get's "turned on" by the game

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Boyanski

Boyanski

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Just now, Rudolf Meier said:

did they not move with another KJR? ... like KJR continued? ... so then, this is because KJR continued is not compatible with IR Next and locked them... KJR Next is compatible and because of that they are not locked and can move... why they move after loading the scene? because then gravity get's "turned on" by the game

You know, actually reading the descriptions for the Rotatron and Joint Pivotron parts they say "This part is able to continously rotate but cannot be controlled." I think this is my mistake. Sorry. I have to pay more attention to descriptions now.

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Rudolf Meier

Rudolf Meier

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1 minute ago, Boyanski said:

You know, actually reading the descriptions for the Rotatron and Joint Pivotron parts they say "This part is able to continously rotate but cannot be controlled." I think this is my mistake. Sorry. I have to pay more attention to descriptions now.

yeah :) ... "read the manual" ... and also never forget "check your staging" ... all the other things you can learn on youtube from Scott Manley ;) 

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Rudolf Meier

Rudolf Meier

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1 hour ago, peteletroll said:

@Rudolf Meier, I worked around the KSP autostrut bug, the code is all here: https://github.com/peteletroll/DockRotate/blob/master/DockRotate/SmartAutostruts.cs

Feel free to borrow it, I'll be happy to help with that.

I know there is a workaround... but... now with the DLC out and their robotic parts, they are almost at anytime cycling (= rebuilding) the autostruts. What would be the solution to that? Search for autostruts on every frame and delete them again? That's not working... Squad simply should stop ignoring the IJointLockState results... that's their interface. And they should add an event to inform mods about this cycling event. Pretty easy... but it seems they don't want that... no idea why. Maybe they don't like mods? Maybe they think they can generate more money like that with additional DLCs? Maybe they are simply not understanding the problem? ... I don't know... it's not more than 10 lines of code for them... ok, maybe 20 ... in total if you do it stupidly... but it can be done with less than 10 I guess.

Maybe someone should ask them about this problem...

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kcs123

kcs123

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9 hours ago, peteletroll said:

And they started working on it!

I would not put my bets on it. Status is changed to confirmed and "%done" from 0 to 10%. Since it took more than whole year to confirm bug, I'm not sure how long it will take to write down 20 lines of code. But, we can hope that it will be moved from idle to crawling or something.

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Lisias

Lisias

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21 hours ago, Boyanski said:

Unfortunately you can't turn off autostrut on KSP Wheels.

Yeah. I think I finally realized the reason things changed that way - to allow Wheels to be moveable!!

So they delete all struts, move the parts, and reapply them before the frame kicks in the physics. Or something like that.

What needs to be done is a way to convince this new engine to do three things:

  1. Expand the parts to be handled to include third-parties modules (as KSPWheels)
  2. Allow a way to black-list some parts from the default behaviour instead
  3. Create a way to communicate the parts that they were re-autostrutted, so parts on the item 2 can do it's own magic (KJRn)
Spoiler

UUUyvHF.jpg

 

 

Edited by Lisias
Hit 'save" too soon.
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kcs123

kcs123

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You might want to check this post, unfortunately in main thread:

Keep note that symmetry can work different in SPH with default mirror mode vs VAB and default radial symmetry mode. You would want to check both.
I didn't investigated much part placement in latest release, but old IR plugin and few beta IR releases were having issues that when you place part on left side, rotatron, bearings and such, rotating one side in one direction and oposite part will rotate in different direction.

That can be solved by inversing movement on oposite part only. IIRC, in KSP 1.3.x, it was necesary to use always positive numbers. For example, part on left side have rotation for 60 degree and on oposite side you can't set "-60" degreee, you need to set for 300 degree, otherwise it will throw exception. That was one issue. Another one was, when you rotate some part placed in symmetry and grab parent part (non IR part stil in symmetry, some truss for example) and afrer that reattach it on craft, mirrored part can rotate to 60 degree instead of 300. Or it can be set to "-60" that was also not suitable for IR GUI.

Now, take mentioned with grain of salt, that was issue from the past releases as much as I can recall. Some of those might be solved by now, I didn't have time to recreate some of crafts used in past. Foldable rocker-bogie rover is good example:

gUbqp59.jpg

Ups, wrong, that one is not foldable, just ordinary rocker-bogie. Following was just prototype from the past when joints were not strong enough:
3bFKqiz.jpg

Not super comlicated stuff compared to other crafts around, but good enough as example for issues that might arise from symmetry.

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Rudolf Meier

Rudolf Meier

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yes... but... at the moment I'm trying to get a clear picture of the possible problem... all I currently have is some reports without clear information of the problem

I suspect, that the problem is only with rotational joints that have their rotation axis going through the attachment and only in mirror mode and here we can ask ourselfs, if it really is a bug or simply "the same problem as for the wheels" ...

so, first: is this correct? is this the only problem? and second: does this need a fix?

there are the advanced tweakables that allow you to take a joint out of the symmetry... is this enough? or is this bad, because someone wants to controll both joints via this symmetry link and that doesn't work now? ... but then the question would be... what about the wheels?

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kcs123

kcs123

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I have yet to test everything a bit more to be able to give better answer. So far I didn't found much of misbehaviour. Probably plenty of mentioned bugs are already fixed. I can't tell yet if there is any major issue left and is it urgent to fix or not. There is several possible workarounds of this. Probably not worth to hold release if it require more time to fix it. It will be good if other people who have encountered issue tell more about it.

So far, test with uncontroled joints does not show anything wrong.

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Rudolf Meier

Rudolf Meier

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yeah... I think what many call "a bug" is none... it's just normal, that mirrored parts are mirrored that way... you can also not see your back, when you're standing in front of a mirror and looking directly into it... and now saying "yeah, but it would be nice, if... " is just... well... :) see? ... and those who say "hey, it's correct like this, I want to see my face when I look into the mirror" ... those we do have also

I've tested many things and... for me it seems ok and it is done the same way in the DLC robotics... here I don't see "a bug" at all

I'm currently working on other things (1.7.1 introduced some new behaviour in the editor... because of that I have some gui updating problems)... that's why I investigate this and try to solve old problems with the UI as well (maybe I can find a solution this time... last time I had to use a workaround... not bad, but a lot more typing for me :) that's why I want to fix it now)

Edited by Rudolf Meier
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Rudolf Meier

Rudolf Meier

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4 hours ago, Fireheart318 said:

Suggestion - Allow servos and things to face prograde, radial, etc., allowing for engines, fins, wheels, and the like that always face forward while other parts of the ship are sideways

we can keep this as an option for the future (some simliar things are already in my list)

currently I'm fixing some bugs...

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ZodiusInfuser

ZodiusInfuser

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2 hours ago, Darren9 said:

Are you still looking for improved textures? I can do UV unwrap, AO bake, normal maps, ect.. I have to say though probably not as well as PorkJet can.

Indeed we are! Do you have any examples of the kind of things you've created? Send me a message and we can discuss what is needed so you can decide whether you'd like to do it. As for style, as long as its stock-alike and consistent then being like PorkJet's trusses isn't too important, would still be better than whatever I can achieve :)

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Rudolf Meier

Rudolf Meier

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I've uploaded version 3.0.1 ... it is a pre-release version. You have to download it from github. And, very important: first delete the old directory before you copy this new one in! A lot of files changed!

... the next "real release" will be 3.0.2 or later. This one does not containt the finished LEE and GF classes and does also not have some new features we are working on. That's why it's not a full release. But it's not unstable or something.

What is new in this version? ... first, it only works on 1.7.1 (backport will follow, with fewer features)... then it provides the new axis actions. Because of that you can use it with KAL-1000. Then it has improved symmetry handling and some minor bugs are fixed.

 

Edited by Rudolf Meier
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linecrafter

linecrafter

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7 minutes ago, Rudolf Meier said:

3.0.1 is ONLY compatible with 1.7.1 and later (-> that's in the description of the download!) ... backports will follow later

updated ksp, parts now appear in sph, i should read instructions more carefully, thanks for your time

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