Construction tools and capabilities :)))

[jonhcenami]

I ran into a few headaches while trying to build a space shuttle and a rocket to get it into space that I feel are worth addressing. The first is that it is a a pain to build a shuttle in the VAB, due to the way symmetry works. I found it much easier to build a shuttle in the SPH but could not transfer what I had already built in the SPH to the VAB for the rocket building stage of development through the in game ui(I had to exit the game, move the craft file into the other folder and edit the .craft file to associate it with the VAB). Even though it is possible to move the craft to the other building this way if I ever want to alter the shuttle itself it's now a different ship and I can't easily move it back and alter the shuttle as I want to without bringing all the rocket stuff as well and see the center of balance and thrust etc.

It would be incredibly useful to be able to able to have a more modular construction ui where I can design something once and include it in several different craft. For example, I only really need 1 basic satellite but if its target orbit is kerbal or the Mun or something further I need a different delivery craft. I shouldn't be rebuilding the same satellite more than once. It would be really nice to have a satelittle save file and import it into each of the rocket designs as I build them.

Once I have enough craft the simple list is not really ideal for finding the craft I'm looking for. It would be really nice to have a folder structure that I could drop crafts into so I could have a folder for all shuttle delivery rockets, all satellite delivery rockets all atmospheric place etc. Even better would be to allow the player to add meta data to the craft save and filter the list of crafts.

When building the shuttle and rocket together it I have to launch each rocket stage individually starting from the last stage first in order to test the balance of the rocket because I can't see the center of thrust or mass for a individual stage once I start adding more stages on. It would be really nice to be able to select a rocket stage when adding those indicators in the construction mode. The center of thrust also assumes all rockets are firing, it would be nice if this could also determined by the a selected stage.

In summary:

Modular contruction design - build a complelx part, save it, import it into other crafts.

Move in an out between the contextual contruction modes in VAB and SPH, including moving crafts between the two buildings.

A Better UI and structure for organizing saved crafts, including meta tags, filtering and folders.

Select a stage when viewing stats based on center of thrust and mass.

 

[DerekL1963]

1 hour ago, jonhcenami said:

Modular contruction design - build a complelx part, save it, import it into other crafts.

Already possible using subassemblies.  There's also the merge feature, but I haven't really used it.
 

1 hour ago, jonhcenami said:

Move in an out between the contextual contruction modes in VAB and SPH, including moving crafts between the two buildings.

Either use the new (v1.4) direct access buttons to directly swap the vehicle, or save the vehicle as a subassembly, or use the tabs at the top of the "open" popup.  (I just noticed those, they may be new.)
 

1 hour ago, jonhcenami said:

A Better UI and structure for organizing saved crafts, including meta tags, filtering and folders.

I use specific craft names, so the default alphanumerical sort automatically organizes like craft next to like craft.  There are also mods that change the open/load interface but I don't know much about them.
 

1 hour ago, jonhcenami said:

Select a stage when viewing stats based on center of thrust and mass.

If you want to look at what it looks like in 'x' stage flight, simply remove the prior stages and set them to one side temporarily.  If you have a really weird staging setup, you might try enabling advanced tweakable and zeroing the thrust on the engines that shouldn't be running then.

And welcome to the madness that is the KSP forums!  I hope this helps.

[Geonovast]

9 hours ago, jonhcenami said:

(I had to exit the game, move the craft file into the other folder and edit the .craft file to associate it with the VAB).

Two things.

1.  You actually can.  When you click the button to open a craft, there are two tabs at the top, VAB and SPH.  You can load a craft from the SPH into the VAB and vice versa.  Clicking "Merge" will bring it in in addition to what you already have out.  This is perfect for shuttles.

2. Manually moving the file is also an option, although a little more cumbersome.  But ever when doing that, you don't need to exit the game, just minimize it if need be.  The game checks the folders every time you click the open button, so the craft will appear without reloading the game.

I'd also like to note the re-root tool, which I found completely pointless when I was green.  Once I accidentally figured out that you can re-root assemblies when they're translucent and red (i.e. "not there"), I started using it all the time.  It's insanely handy when dealing with sub assemblies and merged ships.

9 hours ago, jonhcenami said:

A Better UI and structure for organizing saved crafts, including meta tags, filtering and folders.

Select a stage when viewing stats based on center of thrust and mass.

The first has been needed for a long time, and I would really love something like that in stock.

I've never considered the second one.  I've always found it annoying to have to temporarily break up ships to see the CoM of one stage.  I think separate wet and dry CoM indicators of each stage would also be handy!

7 hours ago, DerekL1963 said:

Either use the new (v1.4) direct access buttons to directly swap the vehicle, or save the vehicle as a subassembly, or use the tabs at the top of the "open" popup.  (I just noticed those, they may be new.)

It is, but you've been able to open crafts from the other building since at least 1.3 (Can't speak to earlier, I cut my teeth in 1.3)

Edited March 12, 2018 by Geonovast

[DerekL1963]

1 hour ago, Geonovast said:

It is, but you've been able to open crafts from the other building since at least 1.3 (Can't speak to earlier, I cut my teeth in 1.3)

I've never really used the SPH much except for building rovers, so I didn't note the other ways until I went double check on subassemblies last night. 

[Gargamel]

11 hours ago, Geonovast said:

It is, but you've been able to open crafts from the other building since at least 1.3 (Can't speak to earlier, I cut my teeth in 1.3)

At least 1.2.1 I just upped from that a few weeks ago.

20 hours ago, jonhcenami said:

Select a stage when viewing stats based on center of thrust and mass.

Just remove the stages below it, and it will adjust.  Reroot if needed and remove the stages above (Course I can't think of a scenario where the upper stages wouldn't be required for this, unless it's some weird multi-vehicle thingy).

 

11 hours ago, Geonovast said:

Once I accidentally figured out that you can re-root assemblies when they're translucent and red (i.e. "not there"), I started using it all the time.  It's insanely handy when dealing with sub assemblies and merged ships.

Explain with examples please. 

[Geonovast]

52 minutes ago, Gargamel said:

Explain with examples please. 

Certainly.

**Disclaimer: These are BAD examples of actual ship design and are proof of concept ONLY.

In the first one, you can see that trying to add the service module on top of the lander doesn't work.  Because of subassemblies will only have one available node, at the root part.  Even after flipping it upside down, attaching, and removing it again, its only attachment point is still the docking port.

Using the re-root tool, we can move the root part (and therefore node) to the engine, and attach to the lander.

 

 

In this second one, which IIRC was when I accidentally found the feature, I was building one of my Dres ships.  I really wanted the Mk2 Inline Docking Port at the end of the arm, but you cannot attach it radially.  However, you can attach stuff to it radially.  Naturally I started with the port then, but how could I duplicated it to all 4 arms?  Re-root to the rescue.

 

 

[Vanamonde]

These suggestions for the game's development have been moved to Suggestions & Development. 

[Gargamel]

21 hours ago, Geonovast said:

In the first one, you can see that trying to add the service module on top of the lander doesn't work.  Because of subassemblies will only have one available node, at the root part.  Even after flipping it upside down, attaching, and removing it again, its only attachment point is still the docking port.

Using the re-root tool, we can move the root part (and therefore node) to the engine, and attach to the lander.

 

 

You don't understand how many cuss words I just called you when watching this video.   I recently built a mothership for a Jool mission, assembled in orbit.  But I first built the completed ship in the VAB, and broke it down into launchable sections, about 12 of them.  I never even considered the root part when making those subassemblies.  So when I went to tack them on top of my Space Tug, Most of them were backwards.  I went through a lot of work trying to get them on the right way.  I ended up rebuilding some of the sections from scratch as it was just easier.   Some ended up with the Konstruction Docking Ports as the root part, which completely negates the functionality of the KDP, as you can't delete/weld the root part.   

So yes, you evil genius, I hate you.   thank you. 

[Geonovast]

6 minutes ago, Gargamel said:

Some ended up with the Konstruction Docking Ports as the root part, which completely negates the functionality of the KDP,

Still happens to me sometimes when I dock, since new roots seem to come from nowhere after docking.  What we really need is an in-flight re-root tool.

[Gargamel]

Too bad I can't rep you any more in this thread, this will save so many headaches.