The "How did they invent that?" Thread

[YNM]

  On 4/11/2018 at 10:46 AM, NSEP said:

I wonder why people domesticated the cat.

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Some say it's the rat.

I say they thrive well. (cats will eat bread, I've seen it.)

[p1t1o]

  On 4/11/2018 at 10:46 AM, NSEP said:

I wonder why people domesticated the cat. Dogs can hunt down small pesticides like rats and mice too, dogs can be cute too, and most importantly, dogs aren't as lazy as cats are.

Cats are nothing more than a cute little accessory, and not that practical compared to dogs. You'd think people back in the day would choose practicality over cuteness, but nah.

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There is something to be said for the theory that cats domesticated us...

...we feed them, house them, clean up after them, entertain them, and for what?

But seriously, wild cats and dogs wouldn't have been existing in the same numbers in every area, some places would use cats for pest control, others dogs. There are other factors in domestication other than cuteness and pest control though, for example in Egypt there was a strong religious factor.

Myself Im fond of all animals (with one or two notable exceptions), especially cats and dogs, but if I had to categorise myself I'd be a cat person. 

[Bill Phil]

  On 4/11/2018 at 10:46 AM, NSEP said:

I wonder why people domesticated the cat. Dogs can hunt down small pesticides like rats and mice too, dogs can be cute too, and most importantly, dogs aren't as lazy as cats are.

Cats are nothing more than a cute little accessory (im not saying cats are completely useless, they are living creatures, like us, but its not that practical as a living tool) and not that practical compared to dogs. You'd think people back in the day would choose practicality over cuteness, but nah.

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Dogs are man's best friend. 

Cats had some uses. They can breed fast and hunt vermin.

Humans don't do things for for logical reasons all the time, as well.

[Just Jim]

  On 4/11/2018 at 11:19 AM, p1t1o said:

There is something to be said for the theory that cats domesticated us...

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OK.... this is actually a true story, I was totally adopted by my cat Waldo, and not the other way around.

About 4 years ago... just before I started hanging out on the forum, we had some unbelievable storms, even for Florida, and a couple streets over got flooded out really, really bad, and had to be evacuated.

And a couple weeks later, this pretty white and orange cat starts hanging out in my back yard. We knew he was a flood victim, but never found his first owners.

He just kept showing up, and got named "Waldo" quite literally because I kept asking where he was... and then he'd just pop up.

But then he would run off if I went outside... until a couple weeks later, when I was out back weeding my garden, and he just walked up, rubbed against me, and flopped over in the grass.

And from that point on, whenever I went outside, he was right there, following me around, and trying to come inside with me. 

But a couple weeks later he got hit by a car... or rolled under one, we're not sure. Luckily he survived... tough ol' cat. But he was bruised and bloody, and now blind in one eye... and he was curled up in a chair out back... and at that point I wrapped a blanket around him, and brought him inside, and a little later took him to the vet to get fixed up... and he's never left. Now he's an 18 pound fat, lazy house-cat, who still thinks he owns me, and follows me around where ever I go.

And I'm serious.... He absolutely adopted me a couple weeks before I adopted him.

Edited April 11, 2018 by Just Jim

[YNM]

  On 4/11/2018 at 11:52 AM, Bill Phil said:

Cats had some uses. They can breed fast and hunt vermin.

Humans don't do things for for logical reasons all the time, as well.

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IMO the domestication of cats goes nearly the same as rats (they do differ from their wild versions) : They thrive well off remains from human consumption.

Big cats will gnaw on grasses, some is eaten. Domestic cats will readily your cereal, bread and rice.

The only difference between cats and rats is that rats goes too quick. Cats don't go too quickly and they have some behaviour that humans find interesting rather than disgusting.

  On 4/11/2018 at 12:19 PM, Just Jim said:

OK.... this is actually a true story, I was totally adopted by my cat Waldo, and not the other way around.

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That's because you're kind. And I guess your garbage's good.

You don't want cats around you ? Be mean to them.

[p1t1o]

I have read about communities in South America that use snakes for vermin control in the same way as cats/dogs.

I like snakes.

 

  On 4/11/2018 at 12:19 PM, Just Jim said:

<snikt>

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Thats such a cool story!

I think part of the allure of cats is that there is a mysterious hint of underlying thoughts that you dont get from other animals, perhaps it is mere anthropomorphising but still, its there

 

  On 4/11/2018 at 12:26 PM, YNM said:

You don't want cats around you ? Be mean to them.

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I mean, that *is* smart behaviour...

***

I have read something interesting about Zebras too. It was about why are horses domesticated but Zebras arent? The answer turned out to be that Zebras are essentially total butts to work with.

 

[Just Jim]

  On 4/11/2018 at 12:26 PM, YNM said:

That's because you're kind. And I guess your garbage's good.

You don't want cats around you ? Be mean to them.

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No, I love cats! I just didn't expect him to latch onto me the way he did. 

And he can't get into my garbage... the cans are pretty much cat-proof. Most of the other outdoor ones we have visit the garden are being fed somewhere. They just hang out in my backyard because of the garden and bird-baths. I try and change the water daily, and in the summer, the cats all stop by for a drink.

I welcome them, because we have fruit rats in Florida, and I hate those things. We don't have them in the house... blecchhhhh.... but now and then one will show up out back, trying to raid the bird-feeders. Luckily we have Max, Ocolot-cat, and a pretty silvery Siamese I haven't named yet, who all hang out back... so a rat doesn't really have a long life expectancy in my garden... hehehe

 

 

[YNM]

  On 4/11/2018 at 12:41 PM, Just Jim said:

No, I love cats! I just didn't expect him to latch onto me the way he did. 

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It's fine. I like them too, as long as they're not eating my dinner XD

Feral cats here are actually quite well-behaved - well, at least in front of you. Some do raid the trash and so on.

Also, oddly, many cats here are mostly afraid of rats - those big rats would startle them instead of appetizing them !

  On 4/11/2018 at 12:37 PM, p1t1o said:

It was about why are horses domesticated but Zebras arent?

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[magnemoe]

  On 4/11/2018 at 12:19 PM, Just Jim said:

OK.... this is actually a true story, I was totally adopted by my cat Waldo, and not the other way around.

About 4 years ago... just before I started hanging out on the forum, we had some unbelievable storms, even for Florida, and a couple streets over got flooded out really, really bad, and had to be evacuated.

And a couple weeks later, this pretty white and orange cat starts hanging out in my back yard. We knew he was a flood victim, but never found his first owners.

He just kept showing up, and got named "Waldo" quite literally because I kept asking where he was... and then he'd just pop up.

But then he would run off if I went outside... until a couple weeks later, when I was out back weeding my garden, and he just walked up, rubbed against me, and flopped over in the grass.

And from that point on, whenever I went outside, he was right there, following me around, and trying to come inside with me. 

But a couple weeks later he got hit by a car... or rolled under one, we're not sure. Luckily he survived... tough ol' cat. But he was bruised and bloody, and now blind in one eye... and he was curled up in a chair out back... and at that point I wrapped a blanket around him, and brought him inside, and a little later took him to the vet to get fixed up... and he's never left. Now he's an 18 pound fat, lazy house-cat, who still thinks he owns me, and follows me around where ever I go.

And I'm serious.... He absolutely adopted me a couple weeks before I adopted him.

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A lot like my old cat, she came beaten up to me, I gave her food and water, second day she lay down on my stomach while I watched TV. She stayed for 7 years until I moved to new apartment, old was an basement one with back door to garden, new did not have it, she did not like this and ran away never for me to be see her again, perhaps returned to old owner. 

And cats are not dominated like dogs, not much need for one as they are so small, an standard temperament cat the size of an large dog would not be something you could keep running free. Interesting large cat breeds tend to have an nice temperament.   
This might be breed into them. you don't want an 10 kg cat claw you, also they don't have have to fight other cats or dogs.  

This explains it better than me
Yes he is insane funny. 

[ARS]

Dogs have masters

Cats have staffs

Logic

[kerbiloid]

  On 4/11/2018 at 10:46 AM, NSEP said:

I wonder why people domesticated the cat

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They didn't. Cats domesticated humans. To milk the cows.

  On 4/15/2018 at 3:14 AM, ARS said:

Dogs have masters

Cats have staffs

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Cats act like an experienced asylum personnel having deal with violent patients - humans.

Edited April 15, 2018 by kerbiloid

[NSEP]

Some say cats domesticated themselves, in order to live with humans and live of our rats in the fields. Humans didn't originally choose to domesticate cats, kind of how we didn't domesticate the raccoon to munch on our trash today. That sort of makes sense.

About cats domesticating humans, cats sometimes say "you're mine" using body language, meaning that they either believe they own us, instead of the other way around, or we don't know cat language. Off topic, but cat also seem to hang around in the back streets, fight eachother, just like in in da hood.

I'd say cats are more independent from humans than some dogs, i could be wrong, but i never heard of a 'street poodle' before.

[razark]

  On 4/15/2018 at 11:31 AM, NSEP said:

Some say cats domesticated themselves...

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Cats are not domesticated.  They simply tolerate humans and use people to get what they want.

 

  On 4/15/2018 at 3:14 AM, ARS said:

Dogs have masters

Cats have staffs

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Dog: This human gives me food and shelter and pets me whenever I want.  It must be a god!

Cat: This human gives me food and shelter and pets me whenever I want.  I must be a god!

[p1t1o]

Its interesting.

The thread about how human inventions got started has morphed into a discussion about our feline masters.

WE DID IT ALL FOR THEM

LET US CONTINUE THE GRAND CLIMATE-WARMING WORKS, SO THAT THEY MAY EVER BE SNUG AND COSY

[ARS]

There's also one aspect of cats that makes them very popular in internet as well as being memetic (LoLcats, for example), that being cat's innocence. We saw a lot of videos, gifs, and images about cats in internet, whether it's about their behavior that human thinks funny, or human makes a scene based on what they did. And the cats? They don't give a damn about it. They just continue what they want, without being disturbed by humans aiming their cameras at them. This unpredictability of cat's behavior is what makes cats popular in internet. Dogs can be easily trained, but cats do not, so whenever they did something funny, it always attract human attention because cats do not normally do that, which boosts their popularity

[kerbiloid]

http://www.onegreenplanet.org/animalsandnature/hybrid-cats-might-be-beautiful-but-heres-why-they-make-terrible-pets/

Still looks like cats are partially domesticated, if compare them to wild ones and their hybrides.
Like dogs compared to wolves.
And like humans compared to apes.

Not a druid, but for me all three look like a childish-looking and -habiting version of their wild ancestors.
All three are less agressive, less grim, more collaborative, more playful. Like a childish animal compared to an adult one.
All three have no problem to ask (i.e. to demonstrate a childish behavior) and use this very often.
All three perfectly get along with other species, even with their natural enemies and preys.

Humans look not like an adult ape (well, sometimes), but like a baby-ape:

• no hair on body,
• only hair bunch on the head,
• flat face with small jaws, small teeth, flat brow ridges;
• round back of the head;
• big, honest eyes

When a baby ape gets adult, it becomes a grim hairy goblin. While a human all its life looks like an overgrown baby ape.

Dogs can yap, bark, and howl. Adult wolves afaik don't bark.
Isn't the barking a puppy-wolf yapping with adult lungs and throat?

All three adult wild ones (apes, wolves, wild cats) mostly have stone faces.
While all three adult domestic ones (humans, dogs, cats) are rich in facial expressions, like juvenile ones.

So, I can't and don't approve and declare this, but until somebody disproves this,  for my personal picture I understand the things this way:

  Reveal hidden contents

Ape-looking pre-humans at some moment have almost extincted. Lack of adult species caused the reproduction of pre-adult ones.
In such conditions average lifespan obviously decreased, and adult features would grow when the hominide is already dead.
So, adult features like full hair cover, big jaws and teeth, brow ridges in most cases just had no time to effect, and natural selection was running on pre-adult bodies, treating the growing of full-featured adult things as a complete waste of resources.
In this case, that species were having advantages who could solve adult problems with pre-adult organism, spending resources not on growing future hair and jaws, but already existing parts of body.
This fixed juvenile shape, hormonal status, habits of future generations.  I.e. kind of neotenia happened, if treat a baby-ape as an ape's larva.

Happily they lived in a warm climate and could survive without fur. Later they used to take the fur from another animals who needs it less.
Happily they were both fruit-eaters and scavengers with partial skills of predators. This allowed them to replace the apes diet with hunting and gathering.
Happily they already had skills of making and using tools to extract insects and larvas. This evolved into clubs and digging sticks, then into spears.

Happily there were wildfires, leaving burnt forests full of semi-burnt corpses, handy and yummy.
At some moment some overgrown post-baby-ape early human took from the ash a burning branch and fired another forest next to this, making it burn out and give a lot of tasty burnt animals.
From that moment this tribe was probably getting fire on any occasion, burning out trees, and gathering burnt corpses, because laziness has appeared before apes became humans.
The Human has mastered the Fire.

***

Unlikely somebody had an idea to domesticate cats and dogs. But of course greediness made to take wildcat kittens and wolf puppies to the tribe, just because.
This biotrash was absolutely useless both as fur and as food, so they gave them to children as single-use toys.
So, chances of a toy to survive were proportional to its ability to look lovely enough to find a patron(ess) as quickly as possible.

I.e. the more childish the fuzzy junk was looking, the greater were the chances that an elderman's beloved daughter adopted it as a reusable toy, saving the little jerk from righteous anger of liquided boots' owner.
Nobody wants to upset an elderman preparing to hunt.

So, the most childish looking and habiting puppies and kittens developed the genetic pool of domesticated post-wolves aka dogs and post-wildcats aka cats.
See above about pre-humans.
This also mean that wild cats are not domesticated pussies, though looking similar. They are fully naturally adult ones, while the domesticated are overgrown pre-adult ones.

Of course, while humans were permanently migrating, and because cats are pure predators and eat meat, the cats had poor chances to survive even with patrons.
While the overgrown wolf-puppies dogs were fine travelling together with humans.
So, the dog was not the first domesticated, but the first survived domesticated species. It became domesticated even before hunters became villagers.

But when people began to settle, live for years at the same place, gather crops and store them in huts, rodents wanted to domesticate themselves, too. And came to the humans, where the stored the crops.
Strange but humans didn't shake their hand of friendship. But could not do a lot with this.

But at the same time the huts with crops become a natural vault and diner for cats still keeping trying to survive as toys.
Since that humans and cats established a symbiosis.

As domestic cats are overgrown wildcat kittens, they don't hesitate to ask, play and show another forms of childish behavior.
As chimps apes humans recognize this behavior as their own babies behavior, they react on kittens (and puppies) like on babies, demonstrating a parential behavior.
As dogs are pack animals, their personal charmness is usually blurred, while cats are individual species, their behavior is more personal, so humans usually take it more close.

 

Edited April 16, 2018 by kerbiloid

[Daveroski]

Cat or dog, the main difference will be apparent when you drop dead in your kitchen.

Your faithful dog will lie with you and using his nose try to make you 'wake up'. If no one calls and he cant get out, he will have no choice but to start eating your hands and lips. The longer he is trapped, the more of you he will eat. If he is 'rescued before he also dies, he will be emotionally scarred by his experience.

Your cat will sit on a cupboard and wait a for while. When he gets hungry he will rub his side against you to transfer his scent onto you. When you do not respond or feed the cat, he will then start to eat your face ears and work at any exposed flesh. After being 'rescued' he will show no emotional signs of the experience.

ohhh nice kitty...