Kerbin Side Remastered [1.0.1] [1.7.3]

[JonnyOThan]

1 hour ago, Lisias said:

Using CKAN and updating things on the blind may makes thing harder to diagnose, as we can't do intermediary tests to see exactly what's happening. It may even render things worse if we have a hardware problem, as it happened recently.

Well that's the thing.  That wasn't a hardware problem, it was an out of date mod.

Most crashes are caused by running out of memory, but considering that it crashed downstream from the KK code and the build OP is using is is 3 years and 6 versions old, updating is probably a good first step.

@Elite_937 if you could post the error.log file from the most recent folder in C:/Users/furio/AppData/Local/Temp/Squad/Kerbal Space Program/Crashes, that could help narrow down the problem.

On 1/28/2025 at 4:06 PM, Lisias said:

Redownload this file. There's a way bigger than zero chance that it would be the root cause of the problem.

It's not uncommon at all for KSP to rewrite settings.cfg and partdatabase.cfg, which are also part of the Steam install.  Verifying files almost always flags these as modified, but it's not an issue.  If only one file is mismatched, I'd bet it was one of those.

OP certainly did not have a bare minium Kerbinside install.  I'm not sure where these came from, but they don't exist in kerbinside.  KK has an annoying behavior of transposing certain configs into its own NewInstances folder, which means that if you uninstall certain KK packs you could still have files left behind and things can break.

KK: GetModelByName: No StaticModel found with name: BADTFlatconcrete 
KK: LoadModelInstances: No Model named BADTFlatconcrete found as defined in: KerbalKonstructs/NewInstances/BADTFlatconcrete-instances.cfg 
KK: LoadModelInstances: No Model named BADTFlatConcreteTri found as defined in: KerbalKonstructs/NewInstances/BADTFlatConcreteTri-instances.cfg 
KK: [LaunchSiteManager] RegisterLaunchSite: Registering LaunchSite: Hillier Airbase Runway 1 isHidden: False 

 

Edited 13 hours ago by JonnyOThan

[Lisias]

1 hour ago, JonnyOThan said:

Well that's the thing.  That wasn't a hardware problem, it was an out of date mod.

If it would be a out of date mod, I could had reproduced the problem when I reproduced and tried the very same installation in my rig (both MacOS and Window) the user had.

Evidences:

• https://github.com/user-attachments/files/18627313/KSP.log
• https://github.com/user-attachments/files/18627314/Player.log

No exceptions or crashes on any of them.

Detail (present on both logs, and matching the user's log):

Mod DLLs found:
Stock assembly: Assembly-CSharp v0.0.0.0
CustomPreLaunchChecks v1.0.0.0 / v1.8.1.0
KerbalKonstructs v2.0.0.0 / v1.8.4.0
Stock assembly: KSPSteamCtrlr v0.0.1.35

(see my previous post for downloading these specific versions of KK and  CPL).

Please read the previous posts.

==== POST EDIT ====

Just realized that I did the tests with Module Manager installed, while the user didn't had it. So I removed Module Manager and redid it:

1. Launched KSP on my test bed
2. Opened a random Save Game
3. Launcher an Acapello rocket
4. Quit to Main Menu
5. Quit game

Again, no exceptions neither crashes.

Edited 12 hours ago by Lisias
redoing the test.

[Mr. Kerbin]

yes, this mod works 1.12.5

[JonnyOThan]

26 minutes ago, Lisias said:

If it would be an out of date mod, I could had reproduced the problem when I reproduced and tried the very same installation in my rig (both MacOS and Window) the user had.

You certainly do not have the same install because OP has stuff in NewInstances that are not part of Kerbinside. I can’t be sure if those are causing the issue but at the same time you can’t be sure they aren’t.  As I mentioned: most crashes are from running out of memory and the error.log file will prove or disprove that.

[Lisias]

39 minutes ago, JonnyOThan said:

You certainly do not have the same install because OP has stuff in NewInstances that are not part of Kerbinside. I can’t be sure if those are causing the issue but at the same time you can’t be sure they aren’t.  As I mentioned: most crashes are from running out of memory and the error.log file will prove or disprove that.

So the next logical step is to remove the NewInstances content and do the test again, and not installing anything new.

=== POST EDIT ===

These are the statics from "NewInstance" on the @Elite_937:

Config(STATIC) KerbalKonstructs/NewInstances/BADTFlatconcrete-instances/STATIC 
Config(STATIC) KerbalKonstructs/NewInstances/BADTFlatConcreteTri-instances/STATIC 
Config(STATIC) KerbalKonstructs/NewInstances/KK_2500m_RL_runway-instances/STATIC 
Config(KK_GroupCenter) KerbalKonstructs/NewInstances/KK_GroupCenter_Laythe_Hillier Airbase/KK_GroupCenter 
Config(KK_GroupCenter) KerbalKonstructs/NewInstances/KK_GroupCenter_Laythe_Hillier Airbase_41b6484d-4d07-427f-afe6-8c77d7ef1dde/KK_GroupCenter 
Config(KK_GroupCenter) KerbalKonstructs/NewInstances/KK_GroupCenter_Laythe_Hillier Airbase_62818d70-38c1-4dd5-a821-a9caca7c1d85/KK_GroupCenter 
Config(KK_GroupCenter) KerbalKonstructs/NewInstances/KK_GroupCenter_Laythe_Hillier Airbase_9f1e7892-9ddd-49fa-8ff1-f57150a0092e/KK_GroupCenter 
Config(KK_GroupCenter) KerbalKonstructs/NewInstances/KK_GroupCenter_Laythe_Hillier Airbase_c8592dd2-7329-43f2-8dff-79cccfe4ee4e/KK_GroupCenter 
Config(STATIC) KerbalKonstructs/NewInstances/KSR_LargeTower_mk2-instances/STATIC 
Config(STATIC) KerbalKonstructs/NewInstances/KSR_main_hangar_mk2-instances/STATIC 
Config(STATIC) KerbalKonstructs/NewInstances/KS_filler_A-instances/STATIC 
Config(STATIC) KerbalKonstructs/NewInstances/KS_filler_B1-instances/STATIC 
Config(STATIC) KerbalKonstructs/NewInstances/KS_smallhangarblockH-instances/STATIC 
Config(STATIC) KerbalKonstructs/NewInstances/KS_TaxiSmall-instances/STATIC 
Config(STATIC) KerbalKonstructs/NewInstances/KS_Taxiway_V-instances/STATIC 
Config(STATIC) KerbalKonstructs/NewInstances/LargeHangarsClosed-instances/STATIC 
Config(STATIC) KerbalKonstructs/NewInstances/Rocket_OSPad-instances/STATIC 
Config(STATIC) KerbalKonstructs/NewInstances/SmallHangarsClosed-instances/STATIC 
KK: LoadModelInstances: No Model named BADTFlatconcrete found as defined in: KerbalKonstructs/NewInstances/BADTFlatconcrete-instances.cfg 
KK: LoadModelInstances: No Model named BADTFlatConcreteTri found as defined in: KerbalKonstructs/NewInstances/BADTFlatConcreteTri-instances.cfg 

@Elite_937, can you please zip the directory <your-ksp>/GameData/KerbalKonstructs/NewIntances and send us somehow (like DropBox)? It's the only thing I could not reproduce on my rigs, so we could rule out (or not) a software defect.

Also, since you are using a NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 with 6GB VRAM, didn't crossed my mind you would be using a machine feeble on CPU RAM. How much memory do your rig have? I can run this thing on a MacMini 5.2 with 16GB and a puny HD 4000 graphics, I really doubt your rig could be weaker than mine...

In a way or another, I decided to bite the bullet and installed both KerbinSides (Complete and Remastered) just to see what happens:

• https://github.com/user-attachments/files/18627274/KSP.log
• https://github.com/user-attachments/files/18627275/Player.log

Redid the very same tests from my last post, nothing remotely weirdly happened (other than some overlapping statics on KSC). The process had eat about 5.2GB of RAM, by the way. Using only "Remastered", 4.98GB.

1 hour ago, Mr. Kerbin said:

yes, this mod works 1.12.5

Yep, both (this one and the original) works fine on KSP 1.12.5 and KK 1.8.4 (the one used by @Elite_937).

Edited 12 hours ago by Lisias
Did another test.

[JonnyOThan]

Sure. By all means, good science is changing one variable at a time. But my money is on running out of memory.  The error.log file contains a record of the peak commit size and the commit limit.  Windows typically restricts the pagefile to 3x the physical ram size so if OP has 8gb or less that can easily not be enough for everything KSP allocates. Another common cause is limited free space on the drive where the pagefile is stored.

[Elite_937]

Wow. I didn't know this thread was so active. I was away for a day or 2 (school). 

I am sorry about derailing the thread, but i will make peace with our lord and savior Eskandre when this problem is fixed. 

9 hours ago, JonnyOThan said:

 BADTFlatconcrete found as defined in: KerbalKonstructs/NewInstances/BADTFlatconcrete-instances.cfg 
KK: LoadModelInstances: No Model named BADTFlatConcreteTri

So lemme give a little context. I have 2 "profiles" that i use. I have a normal one with 200+ mods and a few KK packs. Including BADTKonstructs and a few other more common ones. I didn't know about the whole "KK remembers" thing.  So let's go through all of the things people want from me and i'll give them best i can. 
 

As for installing KK with CKAN, i will for now try reinstalling the absolute latest i can find with the most recent date. and bad memory sticks. i hope not. my "perfectly fine" Alienware R11 has had historical memory problems. hoping to replace it in a few years. i assume that y'all cannot help me if it is bad mem sticks (and i'm fine with that, i understand expertshave limits). 

9 hours ago, JonnyOThan said:

 if you could post the error.log file from the most recent folder in C:/Users/furio/AppData/Local/Temp/Squad/Kerbal Space Program/Crashes, that could help narrow down the problem.

Alright, here's most recent Error.log i hope that works. 
 

8 hours ago, Lisias said:

Just realized that I did the tests with Module Manager installed, while the user didn't had it. So I removed Module Manager and redid it:

For the record, i normally do use MM on my main install (100+ of my mods would have an aneurism without it), but not currently. 

8 hours ago, Lisias said:

can you please zip the directory <your-ksp>/GameData/KerbalKonstructs/NewIntances and send us somehow (like DropBox)? It's the only thing I could not reproduce on my rigs, so we could rule out (or not) a software defect.

Sure. Here's my NewInstances. Worst case, issue's unsolvable and it's another quirk of KSP and KSR. Best case, an actual issue gets patched by Eskandre or something. Probably is fixable though.

8 hours ago, Lisias said:

Also, since you are using a NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 with 6GB VRAM, didn't crossed my mind you would be using a machine feeble on CPU RAM. How much memory do your rig have? I can run this thing on a MacMini 5.2 with 16GB and a puny HD 4000 graphics, I really doubt your rig could be weaker than mine...

That's one of the "fun" things about my schiesse-box of an alienware. firstly, i barely know much about it because i just put my faith in Dell and their computer "expertise". I have attached this screenshot of what Windows says my Alienware is. Sorry about resolution or quality, it's a screenshot of a virtual desktop software connected to my alienware. the fun life of having 2 houses. 

Thanks y'all for sticking with me for so long. i think we may be near the home stretch of the problem. thank you for not bullying me over my generalized incompetence when it comes to modding. 

[Elite_937]

IT HAS WORKED

ITS OVER

WE WON

Touchdown confirmed, we're safe on kerbin. 

Now just gotta test it with my looong list, so we'll see about that too. 

[JonnyOThan]

31 minutes ago, Elite_937 said:

Alright, here's most recent Error.log i hope that works. 

This confirms that you ran out of memory:

System Commit Total/Limit/Peak: 30502MB/30536MB/31211MB
Disk space data for '...': 198877184 bytes free of 238122168320 total.

The peak commit size is greater than the limit, so an allocation failed and the game generally can't handle that.  The commit limit is only ~30GB, which is strange given a physical ram size of 16GB - but we can also see that your drive is nearly full (189MiB free!) so the pagefile could not grow automatically.  You need to keep at least 48GB free on your drive.

Also note there were bugs in older versions of KK, especially regarding launch sites on other bodies.

In any case, glad it's working.

Edited 3 hours ago by JonnyOThan

[Lisias]

2 hours ago, Elite_937 said:

IT HAS WORKED

Good to know.

You know what I think? That some of the KK files in your rig were damaged, like that file that Steam verified. The error.log you provided says you are using a 200GB disk. This is a bit small for HDD, but it's an usual size for SSDs and NVMEs - that thingies that use flash memory I said before, that are prone to data corruption. [EDIT: It may had happened too, but it was not the root cause of the report!]

If you reinstalled KK, chances are that the problem was one of its files got corrupted together that one that Steam fixed - but since there's no one verifying/fixing mod's files, you would be still screwed by the problem.

I will download your "NewInstances.zip" file and give it a peek just in case. I just did it, and found the root cause!

2 hours ago, JonnyOThan said:

Also note there were bugs in older versions of KK, especially regarding launch sites on other bodies.

You almost nailed it. Yes, it was a bug on KK, but it appears to be this one: https://github.com/KSP-RO/Kerbal-Konstructs/issues/15

From that NewInstances files the user sent us, there's 5 files those names start with "KK_GroupCenter_Laythe_Hillier Airbase", and any of them when present in NewInstances directory causes an infinite loop like mentioned on that bug report.

Interesting enough, having just one of the files causes the loop, but the memory is allocated in the process pretty slowly. With two files, memory grows a bit faster. With all 5, memory allocation explodes pretty quickly - debugging memory on MacOS has some advantages, this OS withhold a lot of abuse related to memory...

Anyway, you detected and fixed the main problem. Thanks for the help.

 

2 hours ago, JonnyOThan said:

but we can also see that your drive is nearly full (189MiB free!)

Perhaps this would also be the cause of some files getting corrupted sometimes?

@Elite_937, follows some advises about using SSDs/NVMEs/whatever-uses-flash-memory:

1. Never let the disk get full.
2. Really, never let the disk get full.
3. Don't turn the computer off  by pulling the plug.
4. And, really, really, never let the disk get full.

What happens: do you remember that macro-cell thingy I mentioned before? Flash memory has a drawback: it can only be erased and rewritten a finite number of times. HDDs die due mechanical failures, but unless the plates or heads get damaged, you can erase and rewrite the sectors infinitely, but flash memory is not this way - the macro-cells can be cycled a finite number of times and then they die. It's usually a pretty big number, but as our computers get faster and we demand more of them, more you write things on that macro-cells and, so, smaller is the lifespan of the thing.

To maximize the lifespan, the disk's firmware do a thingy called Wear Leveling: when it will rewrite a macro-cell, instead of reusing the same one it chooses another free one - this avoids rewriting the same macro-cell all the time, what would kill it prematurely.

Problem: it only works with free macro-cells.

When your (flash based) disk is full, the firmware have no choice but to reuse the same small set of macro-cells all the time, and the net result is that you have a smaller lifespan on part of your disk. And one of the symptoms of this problem happening is files getting corrupted out of the blue.

Exactly as it (also could had) happened to you.

My best advice to prevent further data loss (mods also get screwed by the problem, not only KSP files are prone to be damaged!) is to keep your disk more or less at 50 to 70% used capacity (less is better). Really, with less than 200MB free, you are essentially grinding that few macro-cells with the swapfile - I managed to burn 1% of the lifespan per day from an SSD of mine once before realizing the problem after 10 days...

One good way to recover some space is to use the Windows' transparent filesytem compression. Open your KSP installation directory, right click on GameData and do as this link explains. It's not hard, it's reversible, and it will really help you to save some space in your disk!

ANOTHER EDIT: compressing the whole KSP directory will only give you marginal additional results, and may hinder a bit the saves and writings to KSP.log - on spinning disks it may worth it, but on flash memory drives I don't think the same.

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Lisias
ADDENDUM

[JonnyOThan]

9 minutes ago, Lisias said:

Perhaps this would also be the cause of some files getting corrupted sometimes?

Pretty doubtful.  As I said - it's extremely common for "verify files" to report 1 or 2 modified files because the game updates them (settings.cfg and partdatabase.cfg) with new data.

[Lisias]

1 hour ago, JonnyOThan said:

Pretty doubtful.  As I said - it's extremely common for "verify files" to report 1 or 2 modified files because the game updates them (settings.cfg and partdatabase.cfg) with new data.

AFAIK, Steam only verifies and corrects files that it had created itself. It's the reason corrupted @thumbs directory needs to be manually deleted.

The settings.cfg file is autogenerated when KSP first run - it's not created by Steam, and so are never verified by Steam.

Granted, the Physics.cfg and PartDatabase.cfg are (just checked the depot's manifests), and may be the explanation for the verification had detected one changed file (PartDatabase is regenerated at demand, never tried Physics... well, now I tried, and yes, the Physics is also regenerated with default values if deleted)

Still... Working with a full SSD/NVME/whatever is still a terrible idea by the reasons I had explained on my edited post above. IMHO, the user should do something about, or they will have their cheeks bitten by the problem I thought they had sooner or later - probably sooner, given the rate Windows rewrites cells on Swap Files.