The Wonton Wocket challenge

[Wragie]

Your mission should you decide to accept it, is to design, launch, orbit and then perform a scientific test of your choosing and send the results back to .....EARTH or Kerbin if you want something easier.

The original idea is by Tyler Raiz  and here is a video he put up on YouTube.  This was too good and too fun an idea not to put here as a challenge. Sometimes bigger is not funner...

Rulez:

1. The entire vehicle launch weight cannot exceed 1000kg.

That is whatever payload, engines fuel tanks, fuels, science stuff antennas or Jebs lunch, what ever you want to put into space.

That's it, that is all the rules. Well you could try to do it with stock parts for that extra heavy duty headache that will result.

 

The Challenge:

1. Get it into a stable orbit around Kerbin EASY  Earn a paper mache star or Hello Kitty Stickers as a reward

2. Get it into a stable around full scale Earth (realism overhaul required) Medium  Earn Bronze Star and some Bill stickers

3. Launch your vehicle and return or transmit scientific data from around the Mun  Medium hard Your reward is a Gold Star and some Jeb action stickers

4. Launch your vehicle and return or transmit scientific data from around the Moon  Hard Your reward is a Gold Star with diamonds and Valentina's bikini pictures

5. Launch your vehicle and.....Seriously? have you tried this? Well if you get THIS far a guy named Scott Manlee.. something will come to your house and mow your lawn..that or Santa Claus will

6. Subscribe to Tylers YouTube channel and give him a thumbs up for this one!!  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeHMXQRT6D3o2sbfsqkpCcA

 

 

Edited April 29, 2018 by Wragie
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[Zeiss Ikon]

Hmmm.  Now I'm going to have to try this.  I run stock with Making History, so good news is I need a LOT less dV, but bad news is, I don't have procedural parts.

[Zeiss Ikon]

Okay, here we are.  I'm pretty certain it's not possible to go beyond this level with stock/MH parts.

This is One Ton Tony 3.  As you can see, he's 62 kg overweight, but he's going to stay that way.

I launch at an angle, so I don't waste time starting my gravity turn, and get the same turn every time.  This is approximately 5 degrees -- with a stock game, the only way to read this appears to be looking at the nav ball with the rocket on the launch pad.

Start with SAS enabled and throttle up (T and Z keys), then switch SAS to prograde hold as soon as possible after staging to launch.  Stage as soon as the Separatrons burn out.  Coast to 3000-3100 m, then stage to start the Spark.  Watch Ap display in map view, and cut off thrust when Ap reaches 75 km.  I set a maneuver node at Ap, but you can also just keep prograde hold and burn appr. 9 sec before Ap.  You'll have just a whisper of fuel left when Pe comes up out of the atmosphere; if you're very careful, it might be enough to deorbit; otherwise, if you burn the tanks dry, you'll get an Ap close to 180 km with Pe around 75 km.

Vessel has only the built-in antenna on the Okto 2, and no science instruments.  It might be possible to add a thermometer or barometer, though it would require also adding an antenna to transmit the data -- and even a few kg additional mass would prevent circularizing, unless you're a better pilot than I am.

[Wragie]

The payload is the key. I went with one of the Pioneer clones by BlueDog like Tyler had. 13kg has built in antenna, power, control wheel, and antennas. Mine came out at 1002kgs. I had scaled down fins and reaction wheels so could have just made the weight and Kerbin orbit. What I was thinking of using was one of those CubeSat mods or the Octosat. I think those Cubesats are much lighter. 

Its funny when your final stage has a cup of fuel yet has far more DV that the first which probably weighed in around 700kg on mine.

[Ultimate Steve]

I do not have pictures, but... I was able to get an orbital rocket that massed below 500kg in RO/RSS due to the fact that if you resize the procedural SRB and don't touch anything else, it retains its delta-v and mass ratio, which may be thought of as a bit of an exploit, since I can make it minimum size and still have 5km/s of Delta-V.

However, most of the first stage was focused on getting out of the thick atmosphere, so if you allow air launch, I got one rocket below 100kg to orbit Earth.

[Human Person]

I did it! My 997 kg rocket reached LEO.

It is called "City wonton". like @tylerraiz 's rocket it uses a Rutherford 1st stage.

After seperating it, an early controllable core gains avionics and Hydrazine RCS thrusters direct the rocket towards the horizon and spin it up.

the 2nd stage is a Star 17 SRB and the 32 kg 3rd stage burns Hydrazine in an MR-107 engine.

the final orbit got a little lopsided, but I'm sure with a little tweaking and the right timings on stage sep it can get to a 300km circular orbit.

 

Craft file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/y3g3rp6nauw1083/City Wonton.craft?dl=0

 

 

Edited April 29, 2018 by Human Person

[tylerraiz]

I don't know how much of a challenge one ton is in stock, but we'll have to try out your City Wonton during my stream today, @Human Person. Very interesting.

[Zeiss Ikon]

Okay, there was mention of payload, so I went back to the VAB and put a payload on One Ton Tony.  Version 4, at this point.

Pretty much the same rocket as One Ton Tony 3, but with a 2 Hot and Communotron 16 (on the far side).  Same propulsion, but a different flight profile due to the 6 kg of additional launch mass.  I must have launched fifty time with a solar panel that would have made this a permanent science vessel (barring leaving the panel pointed the wrong way for too long), but couldn't find a profile that would lift another 5 kg.  I was rather surprised to find that the Communotron, sticking straight out from the side of the control section, didn't break or burn off during launch.

Once again, the launch support is angled to start the gravity turn immediately -- but now, it's a full 15 degrees.  The launch profile that works is to switch SAS to prograde hold immediately after start, stage off the booster as soon as the Sepratrons burn out, and cut the Spark as soon as apoapsis reaches 73 km.  During coast, set up a maneuver node (I was never able to make a manual burn precisely enough to get a stable orbit), and with care in setting up and executing the node, you can carry 50+ m/s into a 73x75 orbit.  The battery will last through two orbits in a fixed attitude and three data transmissions, and still leave enough power for a deorbit maneuver (for those who like to keep their LKO clean).  On my test flight, the entire vessel survived reentry (even the antenna!) down to the surface (where, of course, it was destroyed).

Here's One Ton Tony 4 coasting to the orbit insertion burn.  Sorry about the night launch...

And here's a science observation ready to transmit, with the deorbit maneuver already set up in the background.

Transmission complete, mission accomplished!  This was done with 100% stock parts; not even anything from Making History -- albeit on Kerbin, not Earth.

[Andetch]

This is the "Turning Japanese-ah" challenge, as the Japanese space program (for political reasons that bar the development of anything like an ICBM) favours tiny, light launch vehicles!

[Xurkitree]

Are we allowed to change the launchsite, by using vehicles, or do we have to start from the lauchsite?

 

I like this challenge, and now that I completed my Jool mission, I can't take some time off to do nonserious stuff.

I did get into Orbit once, but just barely, and the rocket was 1.1 tons

[hoioh]

Not as hard as I thought it would be, but using KSP 1.3.1 pure stock I can't do it without blatantly ripping off @Zeiss Ikon's design. So I went and got some Tweakscale to pitch in a bit, but that made it almost easy. I present: Tiny Tim 2:

And an un-cut video of it's performance:

 

[Zeiss Ikon]

12 hours ago, Xurkitree said:

Are we allowed to change the launchsite, by using vehicles, or do we have to start from the lauchsite?

 

I like this challenge, and now that I completed my Jool mission, I can't take some time off to do nonserious stuff.

I did get into Orbit once, but just barely, and the rocket was 1.1 tons

There's nowhere else on Kerbin you can launch from that's cheaper in dV than the Space Center, unless you can find a high mountain peak almost exactly on the equator.  Starting high will save fuel, because your motors will have more thrust and higher Isp from launch.  If you have 1.4.* and Making History, you should be able to use a "mission" setup to spawn a launch pad on a suitable mountain.

Yep, it's a real challenge.  Based on my experience, it's just barely possible with stock parts.

The Japanese have done this on Earth, with a 4- or 5-stage rocket using only solid propellant -- that had no guidance other than fins and timers to control staging and ignitions.  Unfortunately, the stock game doesn't include sounding rocket parts (IMO, it should, at least in MH, as well as German A-4/V-2 and A-3/Wasserfall rockets from the 1940s -- can you launch a payload into orbit with an A-4 pushing an A-3?  Probably, on Kerbin, but I doubt it, on Earth -- but I bet you can launch to orbit with clusters and stages of A-4 engines burning 50% strength ethanol and liquid oxygen).

Edited April 30, 2018 by Zeiss Ikon

[TheFlyingKerman]

I went 0.07t overweight and made it to the Mun

LKO is relatively easy, even SSTO

I am playing stock 1.2.x. One should be able to go further with more appropriate sized fuel tanks.

[Zeiss Ikon]

@TheFlyingKerman Okay, I don't get it.  I tried launching a Spark with four Oscar B tanks, Okto 2, Small Inline Stabilizer, and 200 battery, plus the smallest nose cone, and couldn't get anywhere close; the Spark loses too much thrust at sea level, and I kept running out of fuel at 20-25 km.  That's why my craft had the 4x Sepratron booster -- to get the Spark stage high enough for the engine to work as designed.  Yet you seem to have done it with at least one solar panel, and antenna, and a presumed thermometer (to have some data to transmit).

Edited May 3, 2018 by Zeiss Ikon

[TheFlyingKerman]

9 hours ago, Zeiss Ikon said:

Spark loses too much thrust at sea level, and I kept running out of fuel at 20-25 km.

First, check the numbers. In my copy of KSP and also WiKi the Spark has 16.876 kN of thrust and 270s ISP ASL. This gives the 1t rocket a very usable TWR of 1.7.

For ascend I launch straight up, carefully turn 10 degrees when the rocket reaches 50m/s and then set SAS prograde lock.

[Zeiss Ikon]

Yes, my four-tank version of One Ton Tony got off the pad without problems.  I guess I just wasn't turning early enough or aggressively enough.  I'll have to give it another try; for repeatability, I'm likely to pre-tilt the rocket on the launch clamp.

Of course, if I dump enough fuel to get under the weight limit...

[Wragie]

This was meant to be a fun challenge. Thats why the 1000kg AUW was only real rule. So if it is easy how do we make it harder to accomplish?

Personally I would love to find a good cubesat mod and have that required using only real world parts or at least realistic ones. The idea being if you could get it to work in RSS maybe just maybe that could be a basis for someone to build and get into the cubesat launch biz. Hey stranger things have happened! Like when it rains fish....

[Zeiss Ikon]

Took a little digging around, but I found that an unmodified SS-520 weighs 2.8 T at ignition.  This is the sounding rocket basis (to which a third stage was added for the orbital launch) for the recent "smallest ever orbital launcher" that launched the Tricom "picosat" earlier this year.

Cutting that weight by more than half seems unlikely in RSS/RO.  And I don't see anyone with an actual Won Ton launch in RSS/RO so far.  I don't think you need to make it harder.  Even at Kerbin, it's a real challenge to get a rocket that's actually under a ton into orbit with any sort of payload.

[herbal space program]

11 hours ago, Zeiss Ikon said:

Even at Kerbin, it's a real challenge to get a rocket that's actually under a ton into orbit with any sort of payload.

I heartily agree! So far, I've managed to get a ship with a thermometer, antenna, battery pack and solar  panels to LKO with just under 450 m/s, but the only way I could manage that was by making the first stage a reaction wheel copter:

Album a/9LPwuzN will appear when post is submitted

With that battery, two panels, a small RW unit, and those wings, I was able to twirl my way up to 12km, which significantly improves the ISP of the middle 2-tank Spark stage. It also reduces drag quite a bit, which is a really big issue for these tiny rockets. By burning my second stage just right, I was able to finish the trip to orbit with a partially full Oscar and an Ant engine, but boy did I have to try a bunch of times! I had held out hope that with this configuration I could get to orbit with the ~830m/s required for a minimal Munar injection orbit, but after hours and hours of trying I finally gave up. So I would definitely concur that in the stock/Kerbin world this doesn't need to be made harder!

Edited May 8, 2018 by herbal space program

[herbal space program]

 

On ‎5‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 1:13 AM, TheFlyingKerman said:

For ascend I launch straight up, carefully turn 10 degrees when the rocket reaches 50m/s and then set SAS prograde lock.

I think there may be some difference in the air between 1.2 and 1.4, because that doesn't work that well for me with that rocket. I can get to LKO with some dV to spare, but no way to the Mun.

Edited May 10, 2018 by herbal space program

[zolotiyeruki]

I got Science from the Mun!  Wasn't super difficult, but it took a few attempts to get the ascent just right.

https://imgur.com/a/A6wQiTM

Almost had enough dV left over to capture around the Mun, too.  Ended up about 50m/s short.

Edited May 10, 2018 by zolotiyeruki

[herbal space program]

2 hours ago, zolotiyeruki said:

I got Science from the Mun!  Wasn't super difficult, but it took a few attempts to get the ascent just right.

https://imgur.com/a/A6wQiTM

Almost had enough dV left over to capture around the Mun, too.  Ended up about 50m/s short.

Well done! I think the key was probably clipping that Ant stage all the way down into the lower one. I had mine just sort of sitting on top, and I think that for these tiny rockets that creates excessive drag.

Edited May 10, 2018 by herbal space program

[TheFlyingKerman]

3 hours ago, zolotiyeruki said:

I got Science from the Mun!  Wasn't super difficult, but it took a few attempts to get the ascent just right.

https://imgur.com/a/A6wQiTM

Almost had enough dV left over to capture around the Mun, too.  Ended up about 50m/s short.

Question: the probe doesn't seem to have a reaction wheel. How do you line up for a transfer/insertion burn?

On ‎5‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 11:40 AM, herbal space program said:

 

I think there may be some difference in the air between 1.2 and 1.4, because that doesn't work that well for me with that rocket. I can get to LKO with some dV to spare, but no way to the Mun.

To clarify I built TWO rockets. The one going to the Mun is different

 

Edited May 10, 2018 by TheFlyingKerman

[Wragie]

Getting into Mun orbit without aerobraking is easy.

You just need to just scrape the surface "slightly" without exploding...and slow down...how hard can it be?

Going back a few posts every kilo of payload makes a difference.if you do more than one experiment  thats just more dead weight to lift.

 

Glad to see it isnt turning out to be a calkwalk to do this. I am still stuck at 2kg over the limit. If i trim off the weight usually fuel

It crashes and burns for me, if i leave it in i have tons of dv left in orbit. 

[zolotiyeruki]

6 hours ago, TheFlyingKerman said:

Question: the probe doesn't seem to have a reaction wheel. How do you line up for a transfer/insertion burn?

Ah, that's the secret--it's not an Ant, it's a Spider engine, which has a gimball.  It's offset into the middle, so it looks like a partially-clipped Ant.

I love how you've managed the staging on your Mun rocket.  If you drop the inline reaction wheel and just use the engine's gimballing, that should save you some mass.  Also, the stack separator is slightly lighter than the decoupler.  Also, without a battery, how do you make sure you have enough power to transmit science from the Mun?