[1.12.5] TechTrees: QUARTIX 3.10, TETRIX 2.26, SIMPLEX 1.36

[Cruesoe]

51 minutes ago, Autolyzed Yeast Extract said:

I wish you didn't include the propulsion config in this. In KSP it is already hard enough to tell how much dV you'll actually have or need because nothing takes into account that ISP changes with both staging AND altitude, and that is the real reason engines have such good atmospheric performance.

Forget trying to measure atmosphere DV at different altitudes, the gains aren't worth it in stock.

You need 3400 to 3800 vacuum dv to make orbit depending on how well you fly.

[theJesuit]

3 hours ago, Autolyzed Yeast Extract said:

I wish you didn't include the propulsion config in this. In KSP it is already hard enough to tell how much dV you'll actually have or need because nothing takes into account that ISP changes with both staging AND altitude, and that is the real reason engines have such good atmospheric performance.

I suggest you delete the SIMPLEXTechTree-Engines.cfg file found in Gamedate/AngleCanMods/SIMPLEXTechTree folder.  That contains the propulsion adjustment.  It won't affect current games for new craft.  Note that in a vacuum there is no adjustment.  This goes if you are using the Simplex Techtree with scaled systems like JNSQ.

It really means that it is a little more difficult to launch craft from the surface of Kerbin (and Laythe  and particularly Eve too I guess).  On Duna you probably wouldn't notice much change.

Think of it as a subtle tweak in lieu of more difficult worlds so that you need a second stage to complete orbit.

As far as I'm aware, KSP Delta-Vee and KER take the adjustment into account for your TWR and ISP calculations.

2 hours ago, Cruesoe said:

Forget trying to measure atmosphere DV at different altitudes, the gains aren't worth it in stock.

You need 3400 to 3800 vacuum dv to make orbit depending on how well you fly.

Yup.

When I released the TETRIX TechTree, I removed the engine nerf file.  I figured that JNSQ by 2.7 rescale does the same thing and the TETRIX Tech Tree is really there for better support.  I figured not many would play JNSQ without some additional part mods that included more efficient engines.

Peace.

[Autolyzed Yeast Extract]

On 2/2/2020 at 5:05 PM, Cruesoe said:

Forget trying to measure atmosphere DV at different altitudes, the gains aren't worth it in stock.

You need 3400 to 3800 vacuum dv to make orbit depending on how well you fly.

For some reason my ship can't breach 250 m/s by 8km with four thumpers and a swivel engine (>2 sea level twr). Something is very wrong

Edited February 4, 2020 by Autolyzed Yeast Extract

[theJesuit]

Can you please post an image of your craft showing delta vee, isp and twr at sea level.  Also, what other mods are you using?

[linuxgurugamer]

Would you have a spreadsheet for the Tetrix tree which I could use to add new mod parts to?

Also, I'm looking at the files which come with the Tetrix tree, and they all say something like this:

Quote

This is the second iteration of the Simplex TechTree.  It now adds additional tech tree nodes beyond the Stock Tech Tree.

 

[theJesuit]

6 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Would you have a spreadsheet for the Tetrix tree which I could use to add new mod parts to?

Also, I'm looking at the files which come with the Tetrix tree, and they all say something like this:

 

Kinda. Yes.  I have a spreadsheet that has all the nodes listed and i use to generate the techtree but not the parts.  That was done over a period of time and basically is only adjusted as is needed.

When I get to my PC I'll dropbox it for you.

Peace.

[linuxgurugamer]

13 hours ago, theJesuit said:

Kinda. Yes.  I have a spreadsheet that has all the nodes listed and i use to generate the techtree but not the parts.  That was done over a period of time and basically is only adjusted as is needed.

Just an FYI, I'm writing a tool which will dump stats for a mod's parts to a file, hoping to use this to make it easier to organize.

[theJesuit]

3 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Just an FYI, I'm writing a tool which will dump stats for a mod's parts to a file, hoping to use this to make it easier to organize.

That sounds amazing and would have been great for KSPIE - will it pull details out of localization files too?

 

Peace.

[linuxgurugamer]

23 minutes ago, theJesuit said:

That sounds amazing and would have been great for KSPIE - will it pull details out of localization files too?

 

Peace.

Since it will be running inside KSP, the answer is yes.  My long-term goal is to have an in-game tech tree editor, will have to see how it goes.

[jpkerman]

3 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Since it will be running inside KSP, the answer is yes.  My long-term goal is to have an in-game tech tree editor, will have to see how it goes.

So a player would be building the tech tree as they researched ?  Making the tree unique from game to game depending on what paths you follow?  I.E.  choosing solid fuel over Liquid as a main lifter type?  Fuel cells over solar?

[linuxgurugamer]

1 hour ago, jpkerman said:

So a player would be building the tech tree as they researched ?  Making the tree unique from game to game depending on what paths you follow?  I.E.  choosing solid fuel over Liquid as a main lifter type?  Fuel cells over solar?

No.  This will be a tool for a modder who is making a new tree.  Not intended to be used during playthrough.  That would be rather difficult, but it is an idea for the future

[Autolyzed Yeast Extract]

On 2/4/2020 at 2:02 AM, theJesuit said:

Can you please post an image of your craft showing delta vee, isp and twr at sea level.

https://tinyimg.io/i/IIMpJsN.PNG isp is 128

On 2/4/2020 at 2:02 AM, theJesuit said:

Also, what other mods are you using?

Here is a picture of my gamedata folder.
http://tinyimg.io/i/rVA9DYi.PNG

Edited February 7, 2020 by Autolyzed Yeast Extract

[theJesuit]

15 minutes ago, Autolyzed Yeast Extract said:

https://tinyimg.io/i/IIMpJsN.PNG isp is 128

Here is a picture of my gamedata folder.
http://tinyimg.io/i/rVA9DYi.PNG

So... many... mods... any other mods in AngleCanMods folder? 

I'll have a good look sometime in the next day or so.

[Autolyzed Yeast Extract]

3 minutes ago, theJesuit said:

So... many... mods... any other mods in AngleCanMods folder? 

I'll have a good look sometime in the next day or so.

I'm glad you understand why I prefer this way of getting support

I have this and your kerbalism changes... so basically all your simplex stuff

Edited February 7, 2020 by Autolyzed Yeast Extract

[theJesuit]

Simplex Propulsion too?  It may be accidentally doubling the nerf.  Can you screenshot the AngleCanMods mods folder?

[Autolyzed Yeast Extract]

2 minutes ago, theJesuit said:

Simplex Propulsion too?  It may be accidentally doubling the nerf.  Can you screenshot the AngleCanMods mods folder?

I only have simplex tech tree folder but it has these configs including kerbalism. I'm not sure why its in the same folder

[theJesuit]

1 hour ago, Autolyzed Yeast Extract said:

I only have simplex tech tree folder but it has these configs including kerbalism. I'm not sure why its in the same folder

That file moves kerblaism science experiements and any upgrades to appropriate nodes in Simplex Tech Tree.

[theJesuit]

On 2/4/2020 at 5:19 PM, Autolyzed Yeast Extract said:

For some reason my ship can't breach 250 m/s by 8km with four thumpers and a swivel engine (>2 sea level twr). Something is very wrong

 

18 hours ago, Autolyzed Yeast Extract said:

https://tinyimg.io/i/IIMpJsN.PNG isp is 128

Here is a picture of my gamedata folder.
http://tinyimg.io/i/rVA9DYi.PNG

I have replicated your rocket in an install that has the Simplex TechTree 1.11 - so the engine nerf is current - I hit 250m/s before 2500 meters.  With the staging the same, TWR according was 2.14, ISP 128s and delat Vee vacuum of 1533 accroding to the stock readouts at the launch stage (S2).  I probably had different things in the service bay or different parts.

My diagnosis it is the engine nerf of the Simplex TechTree isn't at fault, but there is another mod which is causing problems.  I've never used 

You COULD try and delete the SIMPLEXTechTree-Engines.cfg and see - it won't  affect save games.  Existing craft (including existing saved craft files) will have the nerf built in, but new craft or saved craft that have old engines swapped out after deleting the file will be okay.

I'd recommend a process of removing some mods to see what might be causing the issue.  So, remove half and see if there problem persists. Then whittle it down down progressively.  I've never used well over 30 over the mods you have and I'm not sure what they might do to aerodynamics or craft being launched.  A few more I haven't used for about three years.

Peace.

[Tahvohck]

@theJesuit I just wanted to let you know that with Breaking Ground, Remote Tech, and Kerbalism all three together, this means it's possible to unlock ground experiments and not be able to do anything with them until you also unlock the dish. The ground experiments are actually kind of a mess in general, since each different part of the experiments gets unlocked with a different node. But, specifically the control station relies on RT passive antenna for communication. Here's the github issue I opened up to find this: https://github.com/RemoteTechnologiesGroup/RemoteTech/issues/809

I don't know if this would be better fixed with Kerbalism or Tetrix, but I wanted to let you know about it.

[theJesuit]

7 hours ago, Tahvohck said:

@theJesuit I just wanted to let you know that with Breaking Ground, Remote Tech, and Kerbalism all three together, this means it's possible to unlock ground experiments and not be able to do anything with them until you also unlock the dish. The ground experiments are actually kind of a mess in general, since each different part of the experiments gets unlocked with a different node. But, specifically the control station relies on RT passive antenna for communication. Here's the github issue I opened up to find this: https://github.com/RemoteTechnologiesGroup/RemoteTech/issues/809

I don't know if this would be better fixed with Kerbalism or Tetrix, but I wanted to let you know about it.

If it is where the unlocking happens then I'm interested - I'm not sure Remote Tech and Kerbalism work well together though.  Any suggestions would help.

 

[Tahvohck]

My solution personally is to add a very short-range omni to the control station, but that's out of the scope of TETRIX. I think the best solution for TETRIX would be to put the dish and the ground station in the same node, and to make all the experiments successors to that node so that you can't unlock things without some way to use them.

[theJesuit]

10 hours ago, Tahvohck said:

. I think the best solution for TETRIX would be to put the dish and the ground station in the same node,

Ah...  well I guess the suits have transmitters so this also kinda makes sense. Okay.  I'll relook when I next get a chance.

Thanks for the suggestion!

Peace.

[Cavscout74]

I've been experimenting with Tetrix in my JNSQ install and the MH Bobcat is showing up kinda late in the tech tree - I don't recall the name, but it's in the same node as the Mammoth engine.  The Cheetah is 2 or 3 nodes earlier for comparison.

[theJesuit]

5 hours ago, Cavscout74 said:

I've been experimenting with Tetrix in my JNSQ install and the MH Bobcat is showing up kinda late in the tech tree - I don't recall the name, but it's in the same node as the Mammoth engine.  The Cheetah is 2 or 3 nodes earlier for comparison.

Are the MH Bobcat and the Cheetah the same or thereabouts?  Can you please give some guidance.  If so, then where would you recommend they sit for balance?

[Cavscout74]

10 hours ago, theJesuit said:

Are the MH Bobcat and the Cheetah the same or thereabouts?  Can you please give some guidance.  If so, then where would you recommend they sit for balance?

The Bobcat is the 1.875m lifter engine & the Cheetah is the 1.875m vacuum engine, roughly modeled after the LR-87 & LR-91 respectively on the Titan.  I'm not on my game computer, but something right after the 1.25m engines should be about right. For comparison, the 1.875m tanks become available right after the 1.25m tanks.  I just don't have the node names handy