[1.12.3] [Kopernicus] Alien Space Programs Re-Visited, v1.12.0 [07-MAR-2022]

[Snark]

On 2/19/2019 at 3:27 PM, Gordon Fecyk said:

Where would you put the KSC if it were on the Mun?

I realize you're taking a break-- get better soon!-- just wanted to share a few thoughts I had on this, now that I've had a chance to play a fair bit with Laythe Space Program.  I think the following would apply to any tidally-locked body:

1. Best place is on the leading "limb" of the body (as seen from the primary), ideally just a few degrees on the primary side of the visual terminator.  (i.e. look at where the body's "orbit line" emerges from it in map view; best place is just slightly on the primary side of that line)  As an example of this, KSC's placement in Laythe Space Program is absolutely perfect.
   • 1a. Nearly as good (differs only in aesthetics) is same deal, but on the trailing limb.
2. Second-best place would be somewhere on the near side of the body.
3. Worst place is on the far side of the body.

In short, my opinion as to the best place to put KSC on the Mun, if it were added, would be in the same (relative) location as where KSC is on Laythe, with Kerbin just slightly above KSC's eastern horizon.

Lengthy rationale in spoiler.

Spoiler

The reason I like #1 so much is both aesthetic and practical.  First, for aesthetics... it means that KSC has a nice view of the primary, just slightly above the horizon.  Looks great.    For aesthetics, the leading limb is better than the trailing one, because in the latter case, the view from the launchpad wouldn't be as nice because the primary would be hidden behind the VAB.  The prettiest place for the primary to be in the sky is just a bit above KSC's eastern horizon.

The practical value of that location has to do with building communication networks.  A geosynchronous orbit is pretty much always impossible for tidally locked worlds (their rotation period is too slow, their SOI too small).  But a useful substitute is to put a satellite in orbit of the primary, synchronous with the KSC homeworld.  That works great!  ...except that satellites located along the homeworld's orbit won't be visible to a KSC that's on the far side of the body, which is why that's a bad place to put KSC.

Another reason why the far side would be a bad place is that it also won't be able to "see" the primary, or any other bodies or vessels that are in "inferior" (i.e. smaller) orbits.

"Well then, why does it need to be near the limb?" would be a reasonable question.  "What would be wrong with putting KSC bang in the middle so that the primary is directly overhead?"  Well, that's not terrible... but it's not quite as nice.  A KSC in such a position won't be able to directly look at anything in a superior (i.e. more outer) orbit-- to see something out there, it would have to look right across to the opposite side of the primary, boosting ranges and making it harder to communicate.  (For example, a KSC on the Mun with Kerbin straight overhead would not be in a good position for LOS to Minmus.)

 

[Gordon Fecyk]

I'm working on the 1.7.0 release. If you have bugs or requests, please submit them to Issues. I'll incorporate fixes into 1.7.0.

I think you can use ASP 1.6.3 with Kopernicus 1.7.0-1, but be careful. Make a backup of your KSP installation and work from that. Also, Making History will break ASP, so remove it from your test install. I am purchasing it today to test.

[Gordon Fecyk]

1.7.0 In Testing

If anyone is inclined, the 1.7.0 configurations are available in the GitHub repository. Primarily bug fixes to accommodate Kopernicus 1.7.0-1, but also introducing a new home world option. Please take a look and report bugs in the issue tracker. Thank you so much!

About the new option: The KSC scene is bugged, but you can still choose structures with their buttons on the bottom left. 

[Gordon Fecyk]

Guess it's been a while. 1.7.3-1 In Testing.

I'm recovering from my injury and have had adequate time to review ASP finally. The master repository for ASP has corrections to sun luminosity, adds Realistic Atmospheres 1.3.1, adds a no-atmosphere toggle for appropriate home world settings for sandbox and science games, and has a working Mun homeworld.

That last one took so long because I needed to map and configure each Mun artifact so they were true to stock, while still having the KSC scene work properly. Both Minmus and Mun resist templating as a homeworld so I had to template Bop and build each world from Kittopia dumps.

I still need to localize all of the Homeworld Mun text, but the rest of it is ready for testing. Please try it out. You'll need a current Kopernicus edition for your version of KSP.

[Black034]

Mun works fine so far, KSC scene is bugged though like you mentioned (dark and skybox doesnt move when timewarp).

 

[Gordon Fecyk]

2 hours ago, Black034 said:

Mun works fine so far, KSC scene is bugged though like you mentioned

Really...? Must be using the previous attempt.

Make sure you're using the current master as templating the Mun doesn't work. I ended up having to template Bop again and rebuild the Mun from Kittopia dumps. That worked, but it also meant I had to search and replace all Mun easter eggs.

Also, the skybox won't move and neither will the sun. Re-parenting the home world around an object other than the sun causes strange things with the KSC scene. I just wanted to make sure the scene worked for upgrading buildings and recovering craft. You should find the tracking station and landed craft views should be fine, however. The same problem happens on Minmus, Laythe, and Tylo for the same reason.

Edited August 26, 2019 by Gordon Fecyk

[Black034]

Bit confused here sorry, the issue shouldn't be occurring? (the darkness I mean) 

I've used the latest update provided by you above (Aug 19th), my Kopernicus should also be up to date. 

 

The KSC view bug is no problem for me though, having loads of fun as it is 

 

For some reason it works now :0 ! Woo

 

No DLC Surface Features included right?

Edited August 26, 2019 by Black034
Forgot something AGAINNN

[Gordon Fecyk]

On 8/26/2019 at 11:33 AM, Black034 said:

No DLC Surface Features included right?

I actually haven't tested that far. I'd need to see how other planet packs handle the Breaking Bad (sorry my brain keeps going that way) Breaking Ground surface objects and add them back. Most of the time I'm templating the actual world so its native objects could appear, but for the Mun and Minmus I'd have to add them back by hand. It'd be curious if Bop's objects appeared on those.

[Black034]

No worries, lived without them long enough (wouldve been better if it had caves with blue crystals or something anyway lol).

 I've poked my nose around the Mun and Duna so far but only regular scatter to be found, oh btw the darkness bug only happens once after saveload but reloading the ksc scene by entering a building will fix it.

About the surface features, checking the Kopernicus thread it seems they got it working at some point though. Unless I'm misreading something but I cant find a lot of info on any problems etc so far.. 

Edited August 28, 2019 by Black034

[Gordon Fecyk]

1.7.3 release now available

Finally released Alien Space Programs 1.7.3. Adds the Mun as a homeworld option and removes the ocean hacks that are no longer needed in Kopernicus 1.7.3-2.

No 1.8 support yet until the Kopernicus team releases a 1.8 version, and even then some things may change especially with the redone surfaces of home worlds.

[EndAllFilms]

Does it work on KSC extended?

[Rijad Hunter]

Hey Gordon, I wanted to ask, will this mod ever be updated to the newest version? It seems really interesting, but sadly it does not work with the newest one. 

Cheers mate.

[Gordon Fecyk]

Oh it has been a while, hasn't it? Sorry about that, I've had a busy few months plus I worked on the JNSQ Exploration YouTube series.

With any luck I can poke at it tonight and see if there are simple fixes.

[Gordon Fecyk]

Pre-Release 1.11.0  Available from GitHub

Here's a first attempt at updating Alien Space Programs for Kopernicus Continued release 38, for KSP 1.8.1 through 1.11.1. May also work with Kopernicus Bleeding Edge for later versions. I can't guarantee compatibility with older versions but older downloads remain available.

I'm hoping this addresses issues on Minmus and the Mun. Other home worlds are mostly unchanged since they can just template off the stock ones.

[Spraki]

Hope you will have the chance to get it rolling for 1.12 some day (if you happen to have that planned). I understand that it is hard work and have other things to do. 

Seeing that I've come to the likings of building "unnecessarily-big n heavy" ships of fandom/pop culture, it goes without saying that spawning on a Minmus moonbase feels just about right.  That and the addition of distant stars. 

Recently tried loading this blindly with 1.12, but unfortunately, KSC remained on Kerbin, Will consider a rollback to 1.11 =).

Cool mod nonetheless! 

 

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Spraki said:

Hope you will have the chance to get it rolling for 1.12 some day (if you happen to have that planned). I understand that it is hard work and have other things to do. 

Seeing that I've come to the likings of building "unnecessarily-big n heavy" ships of fandom/pop culture, it goes without saying that spawning on a Minmus moonbase feels just about right.  That and the addition of distant stars. 

Recently tried loading this blindly with 1.12, but unfortunately, KSC remained on Kerbin, Will consider a rollback to 1.11 =).

Cool mod nonetheless! 

 

I've tried the mod a few days ago in my heavy modded 1.12 install and it worked fine (Used Laythe as my homeworld), maybe is just a problem with Minmus. There is another mod for what your looking for but I never tried it

 

Edited September 26, 2021 by Firebird989

[Spraki]

2 hours ago, Firebird989 said:

I've tried the mod a few days ago in my heavy modded 1.12 install and it worked fine (Used Laythe as my homeworld), maybe is just a problem with Minmus. There is another mod for what your looking for but I never tried it

 

Thanks. I gave yours a third try and strangely, it loaded this time well. \o/

Haven't tried starting from Laythe yet, but it sounds like a great idea! 

Will check out Minmus Space Centre.

[EndAllFilms]

You should remove the Jool Space Program because there is no point of using a rocket at jool even tho there is but Jool is just a gas station you can't go to the surface. Also you should make it compatible with KSC Extended

[Gordon Fecyk]

@EndAllFilms I have to admit I want to remove some homeworld settings since they are a bit absurd. Jool's one of them, as I think it was originally done as a meme run / meme challenge. I'm also running into problem with both Minmus and the Mun, because these worlds were procedurally generated and this doesn't seem to work well with modern editions of Kopernicus.

@GregroxMun Any reason to keep Jool aside from the memes?

[EndAllFilms]

6 hours ago, Gordon Fecyk said:

@EndAllFilms I have to admit I want to remove some homeworld settings since they are a bit absurd. Jool's one of them, as I think it was originally done as a meme run / meme challenge. I'm also running into problem with both Minmus and the Mun, because these worlds were procedurally generated and this doesn't seem to work well with modern editions of Kopernicus.

@GregroxMun Any reason to keep Jool aside from the memes?

You should make it compatible with  KSC extended and Kerbal Konstructs

Edited November 1, 2021 by EndAllFilms
fixing

[Whirligig Girl]

On 11/1/2021 at 1:20 PM, Gordon Fecyk said:

@EndAllFilms I have to admit I want to remove some homeworld settings since they are a bit absurd. Jool's one of them, as I think it was originally done as a meme run / meme challenge. I'm also running into problem with both Minmus and the Mun, because these worlds were procedurally generated and this doesn't seem to work well with modern editions of Kopernicus.

@GregroxMun Any reason to keep Jool aside from the memes?

I really like Jool Space Program conceptually, because it's just RSS Earth but in the kerbol system.

[Gordon Fecyk]

19 hours ago, GregroxMun said:

I really like Jool Space Program conceptually, because it's just RSS Earth

I'll make the attempt to keep it then, maybe redefine Jool as its own PQS world to replace the Eve clone that's there now. I could probably use JNSQ Nara as an example, if not as a template. They are CC ND so I can't just clone it.

Depending how Minmus and the Mun react to Kopernicus for KSP 1.12, the next and future editions of Alien Space Programs might be restricted to later KSP versions. What I found was these places seemed OK in 1.11, but had surface transparency problems on 1.8. 

[Hohmannson]

1 hour ago, Gordon Fecyk said:

maybe redefine Jool as its own PQS world

Feel free to derive it from JoolSurface, it's permissibly licensed and i did basic Voronoi mountains to make it less boring. Had to work around 1.10 update resetting it to defaults by naming it JooI, lol. https://github.com/hohmannson/jool_surface 

[Whirligig Girl]

On 11/12/2021 at 12:13 PM, Gordon Fecyk said:

I'll make the attempt to keep it then, maybe redefine Jool as its own PQS world to replace the Eve clone that's there now. I could probably use JNSQ Nara as an example, if not as a template. They are CC ND so I can't just clone it.

Depending how Minmus and the Mun react to Kopernicus for KSP 1.12, the next and future editions of Alien Space Programs might be restricted to later KSP versions. What I found was these places seemed OK in 1.11, but had surface transparency problems on 1.8. 

Alien Space Programs had just converted Kerbin into a planet with no PQSMods except for the colormap and a mapdecal to put the space center at the 1 atm pressure mark. Is that not how you're doing it now?

[Gordon Fecyk]

4 hours ago, GregroxMun said:

Is that not how you're doing [Minmus and the Mun] now?

For the most part I'm templating the world intended to be the home world. This was supported starting with the "Change My Kerbin" release of Kopernicus.

I couldn't just template the Mun or Minmus and put the KSC on it like the others were originally done though. These moons were procedurally generated or something, and if one were to just template one of them, the space center scene wouldn't work. I had to template another small object, in this case Bop, then RemoveAllPQSMods = true and rebuild the body from the Kittopia Dump for it. I also had to hand-replace all of the anomalies. This finally got the space center view to work, even if it didn't always match the correct time of day.

Something happened in 1.8 where doing things this way caused the surface to turn transparent. Maybe I have the transition from surface view to scaled space view at the wrong altitude? Something similar was also happening with Restored Duna, except at a much higher altitude. This stopped happening in 1.11.