Balloon into orbit

[Cheif Operations Director]

  On 7/31/2018 at 6:52 AM, FireKerb said:

We already have planes.

And how would using balloons to support a relay be useful compared to having it on the ground. Or in orbit.

Besides, a remodel of on-rails will have to happen for this to work.

 

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What is on-rails?

Also the ballon would remain stationary for example if I'm in a canyon in eve and I do not have a data link I could delay a ballon which would allow for the link to be carried with the craft. It's like a micro satilites being deployed except it's stationary in atmosphere. 

Again science ballons too.

[FireKerb]

On rails is how KSP physics works when either on "Green" time warp or outside the physics bubble. Aero is not simulated, so the balloon would drop dead.

And again, you can still have the dish on the ground.

[Cheif Operations Director]

  On 7/31/2018 at 6:56 AM, FireKerb said:

On rails is how KSP physics works when either on "Green" time warp or outside the physics bubble. Aero is not simulated, so the balloon would drop dead.

And again, you can still have the dish on the ground.

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Not of you are in a canyon. When you hit green time warp an "cheat" could be applied to just the balloon.

[FireKerb]

How does being in a canyon disrupt communication.

And this "cheat" you talk about...

if timeWarp = true
{ move = don't; }

If only it were that easy.

[Blaarkies]

  On 7/31/2018 at 6:45 AM, Cheif Operations Director said:

I suppose the higher the pressure the quicker they will rise based on the EXISTING model we have with the light blue, blue, black atimiter. The ballon with cap at 30,000 feet. The aeromodel already works like this.

I can answer this stuff pretty quickly I'm sure the Dev's can spend 20 minutes coming up with the statistics and the art team can handle the graphic model

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You haven't answered half the questions yet, and these things need to be defined in code as exact values before it ever gets into stock.

Will the balloon be bouncy or hard like a steel shell? 
Are players really going to enjoy sitting at 4x physical warp, waiting at least 20min for this balloon to reach it's max altitude of 10km (or 30 000 feet)?
How does it act when on-rails warp like @FireKerb pointed out?

[Cheif Operations Director]

  On 7/31/2018 at 7:03 AM, FireKerb said:

How does being in a canyon disrupt communication.

And this "cheat" you talk about...

if timeWarp = true
{ move = don't; }

If only it were that easy.

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No the cheat would say 

If Timewarp= true

move at constant rate with (AltLim) until 30,000 and then activate space physics. (Weightlessness)

*AltLim refers the pressure ratios for light blue blue dark blue and black altitudes.

  On 7/31/2018 at 7:06 AM, Blaarkies said:

You haven't answered half the questions yet, and these things need to be defined in code as exact values before it ever gets into stock.

Will the balloon be bouncy or hard like a steel shell? 
Are players really going to enjoy sitting at 4x physical warp, waiting at least 20min for this balloon to reach it's max altitude of 10km (or 30 000 feet)?
How does it act when on-rails warp like @FireKerb pointed out?

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You do not need to personally control it! You can just let it float up and get back to it a year later. 

[FireKerb]

  On 7/31/2018 at 7:06 AM, Cheif Operations Director said:

No the cheat would say 

If Timewarp= true

move at constant rate with (AltLim) until 30,000 and then activate space physics. (Weightlessness)

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Cool!

Now program it into KSP.

[Cheif Operations Director]

  On 7/31/2018 at 7:06 AM, Blaarkies said:

You haven't answered half the questions yet, and these things need to be defined in code as exact values before it ever gets into stock.

Will the balloon be bouncy or hard like a steel shell? 
Are players really going to enjoy sitting at 4x physical warp, waiting at least 20min for this balloon to reach it's max altitude of 10km (or 30 000 feet)?
How does it act when on-rails warp like @FireKerb pointed out?

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Furthur I'm not developing the game!

  On 7/31/2018 at 7:07 AM, FireKerb said:

Cool!

Now program it into KSP.

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I do not know how to code

[FireKerb]

The point is that it's much harder that clicking a button.

Such effort is better spent on bugfixing and troubleshooting.

[Cheif Operations Director]

  On 7/31/2018 at 7:09 AM, FireKerb said:

The point is that it's much harder that clicking a button.

Such effort is better spent on bugfixing and troubleshooting.

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This is more worthwhile than a new DLC rocket engine 

[Blaarkies]

  On 7/31/2018 at 7:07 AM, Cheif Operations Director said:

Furthur I'm not developing the game!

I do not know how to code

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That might be a good idea to not dismiss arguments from others that know how to code, that know how much effort it takes to add something this simple. Its all good to have cool stuff in the game, but the majority of the players want other stuff before they want balloons

[Cheif Operations Director]

  On 7/31/2018 at 7:10 AM, Blaarkies said:

That might be a good idea to not dismiss arguments from others that know how to code, that know how much effort it takes to add something this simple. Its all good to have cool stuff in the game, but the majority of the players want other stuff before they want balloons

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Fair point, all I'm saying is that It is not the most difficult thing in the world

[FireKerb]

  On 7/31/2018 at 7:10 AM, Cheif Operations Director said:

This is more worthwhile than a new DLC rocket engine 

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Making a new engine is easy. All you have to do is plug in a few numbers.

Making a new game mechanic is hard.

  On 7/31/2018 at 7:11 AM, Cheif Operations Director said:

Fair point, all I'm saying is that It is not the most difficult thing in the world

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When you have world hunger and war as some of the harder things, that analogy sorta falls apart.

And if you don't know how to program, then how do you know how easy it is?

[Cheif Operations Director]

  On 7/31/2018 at 7:15 AM, FireKerb said:

Making a new engine is easy. All you have to do is plug in a few numbers.

Making a new game mechanic is hard.

When you have world hunger and war as some of the harder things, that analogy sorta falls apart.

And if you don't know how to program, then how do you know how easy it is?

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Ok let me rephrase this. I've done some programming before some true-false but I despise it. It's not like your adding a new physics system! It's a balloon. It goes up. It does not go down unless popped. It's not rocket science!

[Blaarkies]

  On 7/31/2018 at 7:17 AM, Cheif Operations Director said:

 It's not like your adding a new physics system! It's a balloon. It goes up. It does not go down unless popped. It's not rocket science!

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Thats why we are posing these massive lists of questions. At first it does seem that easy, but the more you think about edge case situations, the more you realise there are a lot of new things to implement before balloons are a stable feature....get it, stable? 

Edited July 31, 2018 by Blaarkies

[Cheif Operations Director]

  On 7/31/2018 at 7:22 AM, Blaarkies said:

Thats why we are posing these massive lists of questions. At first it does seem that easy, but the more you think about edge case situations, the more you realise there are a lot of new things to implement before balloons are a stable feature....get, stable? 

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I'm going to reply to this after I get some rest I'm quite tired.

Then I will answer your questions in full

[FireKerb]

  On 7/31/2018 at 7:17 AM, Cheif Operations Director said:

It's not rocket science!

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So how do balloons work in real life? How is the air kept in? Why do they go up? Why do some materials expand but others not?

Just because it's not rocket science doesn't mean it's easy.

[Cheif Operations Director]

  On 7/31/2018 at 7:27 AM, FireKerb said:

So how do balloons work in real life? How is the air kept in? Why do they go up? Why do some materials expand but others not?

Just because it's not rocket science doesn't mean it's easy.

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Read my above post

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balloon

[FireKerb]

Now how long do you think it took to get all that knowledge about balloons? A year? A decade? A millennium? Maybe two?

If you don't know how hard programming is, don't act like an expert about it.

Edited July 31, 2018 by FireKerb

[Cheif Operations Director]

  On 7/31/2018 at 7:30 AM, FireKerb said:

Now how long do you think it took to get all that knowledge about balloons? A year? A decade? A millennium? Maybe two?

If you don't know how hard programming is, don't act like an expert about it.

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Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"^[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.

-Wikipedia 

  On 7/31/2018 at 7:30 AM, FireKerb said:

Now how long do you think it took to get all that knowledge about balloons? A year? A decade? A millennium? Maybe two?

If you don't know how hard programming is, don't act like an expert about it.

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How about do actually address what I'm suggesting.. For you or me to make a suggestion in this thread does not mean that you are master computer programmer with 60 years of a coding experiance. It means you are a owner of KSP and want to it succeed and have an interest in the game. I think that we can discuss the Actual suggestion better than make Ad Hominem attacks because I'm not a "master programmer". 

 

Nor was I acting like an expert

[DoctorDavinci]

  On 7/31/2018 at 7:30 AM, FireKerb said:

Now how long do you think it took to get all that knowledge about balloons? A year? A decade? A millennium? Maybe two?

If you don't know how hard programming is, don't act like an expert about it.

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Balloons work on the pricipal of buoyancy which has been around for thousands of years as Archimedes discovered the concept circa 287 - 212 BCE and the Chinese have been using the principles of his discovery thousands of years before he discovered it (Chinese floating paper lamps for example)

As for being an expert in programming, criticism on that front is kind of uncalled for ... calling the kettle black there, no?

As for coding an addon for ballons, that's really not all that difficult if you put your mind to it (well, you'd have to know something about coding for KSP though )

  On 7/31/2018 at 7:27 AM, FireKerb said:

So how do balloons work in real life? How is the air kept in? Why do they go up? Why do some materials expand but others not?

Just because it's not rocket science doesn't mean it's easy.

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Good questions, and although they are pertinent to the discussion at hand, the only consideration for those questions would be when coding the balloon control system to simulate what you would see in real life

A balloon mod is achievable and Squad could put them into the game with very little difficulty, I can think of 2 methods off the top of my head that would work to make balloons float in an atmo in KSP

[Vanamonde]

Watch the tempers please, people. 

[MR L A]

  On 7/31/2018 at 6:24 AM, FireKerb said:

Anybody can strap a few balloons to a rocket

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anybody can strap a few boosters to a rocket... I'm failing to see your point with that one.

It's just yet another thing to do in game plus im sure the community would find some really unique ways of using them

[Cheif Operations Director]

  On 7/31/2018 at 6:21 PM, MR L A said:

anybody can strap a few boosters to a rocket... I'm failing to see your point with that one.

It's just yet another thing to do in game plus im sure the community would find some really unique ways of using them

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Like I said strapping a few to a Saturn V now all of a sudden we have 2000 or m/s of delta V

[linuxgurugamer]

  On 7/31/2018 at 6:26 PM, Cheif Operations Director said:

Like I said strapping a few to a Saturn V now all of a sudden we have 2000 or m/s of delta V

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Ummm, really?

Balloons really can't  lift that much compared to volume.  You can't just "strap on a few balloons".  You would need a huge amount of balloons to do anything significant with any rocket, let alone a Saturn V.