[KSP >= 1.3.0] TweakScale - Under Lisias' Management - 2.4.8.8 - 2024-1117

[Lisias]

On 4/5/2019 at 12:33 PM, linuxgurugamer said:

I'm trying to not have too many variants of a part.  I would prefer if TS could stretch in a single direction as well as all three directions.

There's a problem on this approach - textures. They will be heavily distorted by anisotropic resizing.

Scaling all the three coordinates at once can render the textures pixelated a bit, as usually the artist reduces the texture's resolution to the bare minimum to save memory, and applying them on a bigger surface would make it look "crude".

But repainting on a non uniformly scaled part will stretch things. A rivet would end up looking as a wardrobe's door handle. This would ruin the look from everything that doesn't use solid colors as a texture…  

Edited April 13, 2019 by Lisias
hit "save" too soon.

[Tonka Crash]

2 hours ago, Lisias said:

There's a problem on this approach - textures. They will be heavily distorted by anisotropic resizing.

Scaling all the three coordinates at once can render the textures pixelated a bit, as usually the artist reduces the texture's resolution to the bare minimum to save memory, and applying them on a bigger surface would make it look "crude".

But repainting on a non uniformly scaled part will stretch things. A rivet would end up looking as a wardrobe's door handle. This would ruin the look from everything that doesn't use solid colors as a texture…  

It's a compromise users would have to live with for added functionality. I use some MM scripts to create fuel tanks that are double length of the largest in each stack size and see this. It's really not that big a deal to me. 

[Lisias]

1 hour ago, Tonka Crash said:

It's a compromise users would have to live with for added functionality. I use some MM scripts to create fuel tanks that are double length of the largest in each stack size and see this. It's really not that big a deal to me. 

For end-users, probably - but I expect some (new) complains from Add'On authors. as some of them finds disgusting such artifacts.  

But if you are releasing parts with the textures stretched, you will probably see some complains from users. People tend to be picky with "stock" parts.

In a way or another, it's a good brainstorming. Assuming this is, indeed, a problem. How to tackle it down? Suggestions?

[kcs123]

1 hour ago, Lisias said:

In a way or another, it's a good brainstorming. Assuming this is, indeed, a problem. How to tackle it down? Suggestions?

Well, for the same reason, I have recommended to use Firespittrer or B9PartSwitch instead of TweakScale. If it is going to be supported by tweakscale, maybe to add option to switch to different texture in case of asymetric scale. Something similar as Firespitter and B9PartSwitch already doing. Maybe could be possible to re-use pieces of code from those mods for such purpose.

Of course, have to be optional, for mod authors who don't wish to bother with additional textures, to use only existing ones, but option to use different texture with different scaling options might work for picky moders and users.

Just suggestions, since you asked, don't know how feasible it will be or how other moders would accept it.

[Einstein_Cross_X1]

@Lisias I am so glad that you decided to continue this mod! But I've run into a rather large game breaking bug. I'm currently running KSP 1.6.1 with several mods. But this issue appears with a clean install and only tweakscale installed. The issue I believe is a clipping one because if I try to launch a vessel from the launchpad that has a fairing caring a payload the payload itself is "stuck" in mid-air and won't let the rocket leave the pad. When more mods are installed this scenario just straight up hard crashes the game. This happens with an all vannilla parts rocket too. Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated, thank you!

[Lisias]

Jesus Christ! 

32 minutes ago, Einstein_Cross_X1 said:

But I've run into a rather large game breaking bug. I'm currently running KSP 1.6.1 with several mods. But this issue appears with a clean install and only tweakscale installed. The issue I believe is a clipping one because if I try to launch a vessel from the launchpad that has a fairing caring a payload the payload itself is "stuck" in mid-air and won't let the rocket leave the pad. When more mods are installed this scenario just straight up hard crashes the game. This happens with an all vannilla parts rocket too.

Something like this issue? https://github.com/pellinor0/TweakScale/issues/83

Yes, this is somewhat serious, as this error propagates into the launched vehicles and "contaminates" your savegames. I urge to stop playing this savegame now, and send me your KSP.log as soon as you can, as well the Module Manager caches. All of them (just in case).

Are you using the latests TweakScale? (2.4.1.0) If not, please update as soon as you can. See the OP for details, read all the read notices and links.

Backup everything, as the code isn't aways able to correcly fix the issues it find, and manual intervention ends up being necessary to salvage your savegame. Load and save every craft before using them again with the latest version.

Crafts with this problem will sooner of later induces the near statics to blow up, due the propagating of NaNs related to a badly instrumented Part with variants with mass. There's no other safe measure than to update to the newest and take the hit of such parts having their TweakScale support withdrawn (savegames with parts using these "contaminated" parts will have the parts reset to default, so backup your savegames).

This is unhappy, but it's the only safe option until the release of TweakScale 2.5, currently being cooked.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Lisias
Hit 'save" too soon.

[Einstein_Cross_X1]

1 hour ago, Lisias said:

Jesus Christ! 

Something like this issue? https://github.com/pellinor0/TweakScale/issues/83

Yes, this is somewhat serious, as this error propagates into the launched vehicles and "contaminates" your savegames. I urge to stop playing this savegame now, and send me your KSP.log as soon as you can, as well the Module Manager caches. All of them (just in case).

Are you using the latests TweakScale? (2.4.1.0) If not, please update as soon as you can. See the OP for details, read all the read notices and links.

Backup everything, as the code isn't aways able to correcly fix the issues it find, and manual intervention ends up being necessary to salvage your savegame. Load and save every craft before using them again with the latest version.

Crafts with this problem will sooner of later induces the near statics to blow up, due the propagating of NaNs related to a badly instrumented Part with variants with mass. There's no other safe measure than to update to the newest and take the hit of such parts having their TweakScale support withdrawn (savegames with parts using these "contaminated" parts will have the parts reset to default, so backup your savegames).

This is unhappy, but it's the only safe option until the release of TweakScale 2.5, currently being cooked.

Thank you for the speedy reply! I just checked and it DOES seem to be the same issue of negative mass parts (engines in particular). I also tested a vehicle that I knew caused this crash in the past and checked the motor on the small satellite payload and low-and-behold it had negative mass just like the error you linked to in your post. Once I removed that engine the rocket launched fine with no crashes. The issue happens on small engines as well even if their size hasn't been changed with tweakscale. If it is possible to fix this issue for 2.5 that would be amazing! But no rush, this is just a mod after all, not like you're getting paid to do this Which is also why I appreciate all the hard work you put into this stuff even more! Any way here is a link to my installed mods, KSP log, and Module Manager patches: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/rra2fnglscv8p6w/AAD655AamhbTRSIbEh5HMRNAa?dl=0 I hope this helps!

 

Edit also for reference I am using Tweakscale 2.4.1.0

Edited April 22, 2019 by Einstein_Cross_X1

[Lisias]

17 minutes ago, Einstein_Cross_X1 said:

Thank you for the speedy reply! 

I jumped from the bed  , this error is a serious showstopper!  

 

17 minutes ago, Einstein_Cross_X1 said:

I just checked and it DOES seem to be the same issue of negative mass parts (engines in particular). I also tested a vehicle that I knew caused this crash in the past and checked the motor on the small satellite payload and low-and-behold it had negative mass just like the error you linked to in your post. Once I removed that engine the rocket launched fine with no crashes. The issue happens on small engines as well even if their size hasn't been changed with tweakscale.

So apparently you managed to find a new way to get this error. I will check the log with care.

 

17 minutes ago, Einstein_Cross_X1 said:

If it is possible to fix this issue for 2.5 that would be amazing! 

I just checked your log, and you are not using the latest . The latest, 2.4.1,  fixes some more issues, and I think yours can be one of them (the hint being some non scaled parts also triggering the Anger of the Kraken). Please update and check again the same crafts. Publish the new KSP.log and Module Manager caches too, if you find the error again.[You are using the latest, I borked on the DLL version info!!!]

Assuming I detect a new problem with your current KSP.log and MM caches, and/or you report he same happening on 2.4.1, 2.5 will be put on hold and I will issue a new 2.4.1.1 just for this fix the fastest I can.

 

17 minutes ago, Einstein_Cross_X1 said:

But no rush, this is just a mod after all, not like you're getting paid to do this Which is also why I appreciate all the hard work you put into this stuff even more! 

Thanks, dude. I really appreciated. I can't always respond as fast as I wish due pressuring issues on Real Life (tm), but we (not just me) do whatever we can to keep you flying safe.  (or as safest as it would be fun to fly!!  )

Edited April 22, 2019 by Lisias
whoopsy...

[Lisias]

Well, I want to register this somewhere, but I don't know where. So, since I was working on TweakScale, why not here?

Someone, somewhere, is adding a "rogue" config into Squad's folder. I found what follows on my 1.6.1 test bed:

macmini:GameData lisias$ find . -name "*.cfg" -exec grep -l "name = adapterLargeSmallQuad" {} \;
./Squad/Parts/Structural/adapterLargeSmallQuad/adapterLargeSmallQuad.cfg
./Squad/Parts/Structural/stackAdapters/adapterLargeSmallQuad.cfg
./Squad/zDeprecated/Parts/Structural/adapterLargeSmallQuad_v1/adapterLargeSmallQuad.cfg

Well… "Gato escaldado…"  So I deleted my test bed and took a fresh one from my local repository and redid the tesst:

macmini:GameData lisias$ find . -name "*.cfg" -exec grep -l "name = adapterLargeSmallQuad" {} \;
./Squad/Parts/Structural/stackAdapters/adapterLargeSmallQuad.cfg
./Squad/zDeprecated/Parts/Structural/adapterLargeSmallQuad_v1/adapterLargeSmallQuad.cfg

Usually, I would pinpoint myself as the culprit on a unattended drag and drop, but this would move the file, not copy it. And the file contents on the "stackAdapters" were vastly different from the other two ones. So if I did it, I did from another completely unrelated place - unlikely, but not impossible.

Since it's my test bed for 1.6.1, until recently the KSP mainstream, this poor installment had some really bad times on Add'Ons testing.  So I'm placing my bets on a rogue Add'On mangling Squad's territory. 

Some more research work is scheduled for this week. This need to be solved, such rogue config is messing up the default parts. I will, of course, check first if it's something I did by accident, and then I will pursue whatever did this and report a change request to the maintainer (assuming it wasn't me.  )

[Lisias]

@iGGnitE, as we talked on the KJR thread, this is the place to discuss the TweakScale problems I found on your KSP.log.

Check the following issues, if you are curious about what's going on:

• https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/TweakScale/issues/36
• https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/TweakScale/issues/37
• https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/TweakScale/issues/38

— — — — 

@Einstein_Cross_X1, your report will be handled on the reopening of the issue #11.

https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/TweakScale/issues/11#issuecomment-485591220

Edited April 22, 2019 by Lisias
MOAR ISSUES!

[Lisias]

Your attention please!!

Users of TweakScale that are also users of Infernal Robotics are advised to read this notice carefully.

A unusual and weird condition was found on a very specific situation where a craft with some key parts under a determined scale crashes KSP.

The crashes apparently does not corrupts the savegame, as long you quit immediatelly KSP and restart it. Recover the vehicle from the track station to prevent triggering the problem again (it happens when the craft us unpacked - loading the craft on the Editor has no issues). However, extensive tests are still needed to be sure on the matter.

I tested this down to KSP 1.4.3 and the behaviour is consistent.

This problems is triggered by scaling at least some parts to the size "Small -" (small minus, the smallest of them). It's not certain if this happens only under certain circumstances, or if the thing happens  all the time. I never used the 'Small -" scale on my vessels - so I need more time to test the thing.

Sorry for that.

https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/TweakScale/issues/39

— — — UPDATE — — —

It's known for sure how the problem works. Thanks, @Rudolf Meier, for sharing the info with me.

It's really a very specific issue that Infernal Robotics induces due the nature of the complicated things it does to accomplish its goal - not something that most parts would do.

Being not exactly catastrophic (savegames are not being corrupted and can be easily salvaged), and being very rare on the wild (only Infernal Robotics is known to have to cope with this), it was not decided yet if a fix is feasible (or needed) by TweakScale.

Since I already have the idea for a Runtime Sanity Check (and not only on the loading phase), I will keep this issue alive while I make my mind.

Other than that, move on! There's nothing (more) to be seen here!  

— — — UPDATE — — — 

Infernal Robotics/NEXT fixed the problem. It's something inside the guts of the Physics Engine, the IR/Next now is checking against this issue.

It's unsure if this can be prevented from my side, but I will study the @Rudolf Meier's solution and then I will try to figure out if it's possible from my side, and if positive. if it's feasible.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Lisias
update

[Tonas1997]

In KSP 1.3.1 (RO/RSS modpack), the charge rate of scaled solar panels doesn't seem to change; I guess this is because Tweakscale ony defines exponents for ModuleDeployableSolarPanel, not KopernicusSolarPanel - which replaces the stock module. Am I correct?

[Lisias]

1 hour ago, Tonas1997 said:

; I guess this is because Tweakscale ony defines exponents for ModuleDeployableSolarPanel, not KopernicusSolarPanel - which replaces the stock module. Am I correct?

You probably right, I don't play kopernicus often, and I missed this one .

A patch should be trivia. Hopefully.

i will update my task list when in home.

[VoidCosmos]

@Lisias você fala português?

(Just asking!)

[Lisias]

1 hour ago, Nigel Cardozo said:

@Lisias você fala português?

(Just asking!)

Bicho, Paulistês arcaico, pra ser mais exato  (I have a heavy accent from São Paulo from the 80's - gone live in Amazon as a kid, and lost contact with people around here, so I ended up "stuck' talking how people used to talk when I was a kid!!  )

[Lisias]

Update on the issue about Infernal Robotics.

 

[Lisias]

I usually would post this on the Rants thread, but unfortunately it was locked due misbehaviours - what's ironic at best.  

So I will rant here, as it's TweakScale related.  

THE WORLD IS ENDING HERE, it's the new Biblical Flood!  The rain is so heavy that some public infrastructure is blowing up (I can hear from here), and I got a power outage (after a surge!) for some seconds, what played havoc on the first day I really reserved to work on TweakScale in weeks.  

Well… Rant's over. I guess I will need to dig some time on the week to redo the work.

Power is back, let's check what's fried around here.

— — — 

Yeah. It's raining again. =/ I will read a book or play on the PSP.  

— — — 

I think I got "lucky", way less trees had fell this time. Two months ago, was way worse. 900 was the count as far as I know.

Spoiler

— — — 

Not too much damage. Some fuses blew on the power stabilizers, and a somewhat nefarious file system corruption - what's not a problem, as everything is backed up or is a git repository. The only loss is the day's work.  

Edited April 29, 2019 by Lisias
rain….

[kcs123]

Not that I like what was happened to you, but I can feel the pain behind it.

[Pointblank66]

So I have noticed that with a few mods that I use, Negative mass I becoming a very big issue to where my rockets are stuck on the launchpad. Is there any way on how to fix it?

[Lisias]

8 hours ago, Pointblank66 said:

So I have noticed that with a few mods that I use, Negative mass I becoming a very big issue to where my rockets are stuck on the launchpad. Is there any way on how to fix it?

I need your KSP.log and Module Manager caches (all of them).

This is [almost ] always related to rogue patches and/or unsupported configurations. There's nothing to be done but to plain drop TweakScale support to the affected parts when this happens, and this is what the latest TweakScale is doing.

If you are not using the latest, please do it - but be aware that the affected parts will plain lose TweakScale support, including crafts already flying. If you are using the latest, I need the mentioned data to identify the new situation and properly implement a Sanity Check for it.

— — — POST EDIT — — — 

I found your KSP.log here:

 I'm checking it - there're something very weird here, TweakScale appears to being summoned to scale parts without TweakScale support! I'm not aware of any situation where this would happen, I'm on it now.

https://github.com/net-lisias-ksp/TweakScale/issues/41

Edited May 4, 2019 by Lisias
creating issue

[Lisias]

ANNOUNCE.

Release 2.4.2.0 is available for downloading. See OP for the links.

And yet another *Unholy interaction between modules* (Kraken Food) was detected when rogue patches apply twice the same property on a part. Unfortunately, one of that rogue patches were being delivered on the TweakScale Releases. We apologize for that.

Be advised that a new situation was detected that demanded withdrawing support from some parts at runtime due rogue patching. No breakage is expected this time as such parts are rendered useless and you could not use them anyway, but take precautions on installing Add'Ons on your installment as some older ones are prone to induce this misbehaviour.

Issues that would mangle your savegames and crafts still persists. Things still work until the problem is fixed (by installing, deleting or updating an add'on!) when then your KSP installment will be sane but all your savegames and crafts with TweakScale parts will get reset to defaults - yeah, you can't fix the problem or things get worse. This version of TweakScale "mangles further" the affected crafts and savegames so when things are fixed, your crafts preserve the TweakScale settings without harm. THIS DOES NOT FIX THE PROBLEM,  as this is beyond the reach of TweakScale - but it at least prevents you from losing your crafts and savegames once the problem happens and then is later fixed.

Special procedures for recovering mangled installments once the TweakScale are installed (triggering the MM cache rebuilding) are possible, but keep your savegames backed up. And DON`T SAVE your crafts once you detect the problem. Reach me on here for help.

As usual, this version still drops support in runtime for some problematic parts. Any savegame with such problematic parts scaled will have them "descaled". This is not a really big problem as your game was going to crash sooner or later anyway - but if you plan to return to such savegame later when TweakScale will fully support that parts again, it's better to backup your savegames!

Currently, only EnginePlate1 to 5, and Tube1 to 4 are being affected due using ModulePartVariants with mass. It's an annoyance, but not a really heavy impact on gaming. I'm trying to figure out coding time to fix this on TS 2.5.0, the next major milestone.

On the bright side, it Default support for Near Future Aeronautics, thanks to our fellow Kerbonaut Red Stapler.

Please keep an eye on the KNOWN ISSUES file. I will keep it updated regularly.

— — — — —

This Release will be published using the following Schedule:

1. GitHub , reaching first manual installers and users of KSP-AVC.
2. CurseForge  -online
3. SpaceDock (and ckan users) - by monday night

The reasoning is to gradually distribute the Release to easily monitor the deployment and cope with eventual mishaps.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Lisias
updating publishing chronogram

[Jammer-TD]

@Lisias

Release 2.4.2.0

Worked well for me. no know issues at this time.

I'm At 1.7.1 with all mods updated, saves and ships doing fine(I am only using 1.7.1 saves and Ships).

FYI

Thanks

So Much

Jammer-TD

Edited May 6, 2019 by Jammer-TD
oops over zealous enthusiasm ,caused extra typying in ksp ver. info

[VoidCosmos]

16 hours ago, Jammer-TD said:

@Lisias

Release 2.4.2.0

Worked well for me. no know issues at this time.

I'm At 1.7.1with all mods updated, saves and ships doing fine(I am only using 1.7.1 saves and Ships).

FYI

Thanks

So Much

Jammer-TD

1.7.1 is not released! I guess you are referring to 1.7.0

[Lisias]

18 minutes ago, Nigel Cardozo said:

1.7.1 is not released! I guess you are referring to 1.7.0

Hey, stop Snitchin' !

He's my Special Temporal Agent on the future, hinting me about what's going on on 1.7.1 so I can fix TweakScale beforehand and beat the competition!!!

[VoidCosmos]

1 hour ago, Lisias said:

 

@Lisias

1 hour ago, Lisias said:

 

@Lisias

Edited May 6, 2019 by Nigel Cardozo