[1.8-1.12] Ferram Aerospace Research Continued: v0.16.0.5 "Mader" 03/04/22

[Redacted]

To follow up...

It was caused by file Kerbal Space Program\Ships\@thumbs\SPH\E42.png

[kcs123]

5 minutes ago, Redacted said:

To follow up...

It was caused by file Kerbal Space Program\Ships\@thumbs\SPH\E42.png

Yep, those thumbs pictures was probably not included with craft files trough first CKAN install. It was created later on by game, and CKAN refuse to remove files that was not tracked to be installed for the first time. Such remains often can break future installs.

[Beetlecat]

1 hour ago, kcs123 said:

Yep, those thumbs pictures was probably not included with craft files trough first CKAN install. It was created later on by game, and CKAN refuse to remove files that was not tracked to be installed for the first time. Such remains often can break future installs.

In my case it was the thumbs *and* the craft from both VAB and SPH. Just anything with FAR in the title can be removed from the stock craft section>

[ephemer3al]

Is it allowed to just say thank you all very much for keeping FAR updated? FAR is life.

 

[Lisias]

On 10/27/2019 at 8:43 PM, dkavolis said:

Actually there's something else going on with AssemblyLoader, Scale_Redist is loaded fine but it still throws errors. AssemblyLoader might be trying to load it multiple times.

I workarounded this Addon Binder Error Fest as explained here. Not sure if FAR is suffering from this thing too, so I choose to link the post instead of risking derailing (further) this thread.

Edited November 2, 2019 by Lisias
Fixing the link.

[Boyanski]

On 10/26/2019 at 9:15 PM, ss8913 said:

in 1.8, using incompatible mods causes this.  many of the mods listed on ckan as being compatible with "any" version actually arent, and will cause this, plus of course the ones specifically called out as 1.7.x or earlier.

Looking at the console, it says "Exception: ReflectionTypeLoadException: Exception of type 'System.Reflection.ReflectionTypeLoadExcpetion' was thrown".

Do you know what this means? Thanks.

[ss8913]

53 minutes ago, Boyanski said:

Looking at the console, it says "Exception: ReflectionTypeLoadException: Exception of type 'System.Reflection.ReflectionTypeLoadExcpetion' was thrown".

Do you know what this means? Thanks.

it means a mod is incompatible with 1.8 and needs to be recompiled and relinked against the new ksp and the new unity.  what you're seeing is what i was also seeing when trying to use mods not recompiled for 1.8. it's possible that some part-only mods might work from older versions?  but I havent verified that.  1.8 is a more major update than anything we have had since 1.0 or 1.1 or whenever it was that they last updated Unity.

[kcs123]

3 hours ago, ss8913 said:

t means a mod is incompatible with 1.8 and needs to be recompiled and relinked against the new ksp and the new unity

It is being updated:

Might be issue with install or with some other mod interaction ?

[Dundrogen]

Hi Ferram dudes, 

With the new 'same vessel interaction setting', would parts having their collider meshs squished together protect the internal components of said parts from aerodynamic forces? For example. Using a hydraulic press to shut the 1.25m nose cone onto the 1.25 meter hollow structural tube. 

[SpickitySpock]

Hey, does the new version still work with 1.7.x or is there an alternative download link to that? I only see the 1.8 version on GitHub.

Thanks.

[paul23]

I'm always wondering: does far actually also use pressure drag, apart from skin drag? - And with that, is it better, when having side tanks, to also add nose cones to the bottom of such tanks?

[kcs123]

14 hours ago, SpickitySpock said:

Hey, does the new version still work with 1.7.x or is there an alternative download link to that? I only see the 1.8 version on GitHub.

Thanks.

https://github.com/dkavolis/Ferram-Aerospace-Research/releases

There are listed all previous releases. IIRC two releases before latest one is for KSP 1.7.x, you will have to search trough this thread to find out about exact KSP version compatibility.
And I doubt that latest one recompiled for KSP 1.8.x will work properly on KSP 1.7.x due to unity game engine version change in KSP 1.8.x, but I didn't tried for myself.

[SpickitySpock]

39 minutes ago, kcs123 said:

https://github.com/dkavolis/Ferram-Aerospace-Research/releases

There are listed all previous releases. IIRC two releases before latest one is for KSP 1.7.x, you will have to search trough this thread to find out about exact KSP version compatibility.
And I doubt that latest one recompiled for KSP 1.8.x will work properly on KSP 1.7.x due to unity game engine version change in KSP 1.8.x, but I didn't tried for myself.

I completely missed that, thanks a lot. It seems that v0.15.11.2 (the one directly before the update to 1.8) works with 1.7.3 with no problems.

Thanks.

[Autolyzed Yeast Extract]

Parachutes do not work. Log reveals this issue

Spoiler

[LOG 22:20:21.396] Contract (Haul J-X4 "Whiplash" Turbo Ramjet Engine into flight above Kerbin.): Haul Complete! This will help us a great deal. Thanks!

<b><color=#8BED8B>Completion Rewards:</color></b> 
<color=#B4D455><sprite="CurrencySpriteAsset" name="Funds" tint=1>  378,000   </color>
<color=#6DCFF6><sprite="CurrencySpriteAsset" name="Science" tint=1> 2   </color>
<color=#E0D503><sprite="CurrencySpriteAsset" name="Reputation" tint=1> 4   </color>


[LOG 22:20:41.257] [FlightGlobals]: Active Vessel is in atmosphere. Cannot save.
[LOG 22:20:53.625] [RealChute]: parachuteRadial was activated in stage 0
[LOG 22:20:53.625] [RealChute]: parachuteRadial was activated in stage 0
[EXC 22:20:53.671] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
	FerramAerospaceResearch.RealChuteLite.RealChuteFAR.PreDeploy () (at <6338ca968c7c4c8a971a01d858e759df>:0)
	FerramAerospaceResearch.RealChuteLite.RealChuteFAR.FixedUpdate () (at <6338ca968c7c4c8a971a01d858e759df>:0)
[EXC 22:20:53.672] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
	FerramAerospaceResearch.RealChuteLite.RealChuteFAR.PreDeploy () (at <6338ca968c7c4c8a971a01d858e759df>:0)
	FerramAerospaceResearch.RealChuteLite.RealChuteFAR.FixedUpdate () (at <6338ca968c7c4c8a971a01d858e759df>:0)
[EXC 22:20:53.710] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
	FerramAerospaceResearch.RealChuteLite.RealChuteFAR.FollowDragDirection () (at <6338ca968c7c4c8a971a01d858e759df>:0)
	FerramAerospaceResearch.RealChuteLite.RealChuteFAR.FixedUpdate () (at <6338ca968c7c4c8a971a01d858e759df>:0)
[EXC 22:20:53.711] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
	FerramAerospaceResearch.RealChuteLite.RealChuteFAR.FollowDragDirection () (at <6338ca968c7c4c8a971a01d858e759df>:0)
	FerramAerospaceResearch.RealChuteLite.RealChuteFAR.FixedUpdate () (at <6338ca968c7c4c8a971a01d858e759df>:0)

 

Basically FAR is mad that I am not using RealChute, or FAR's built in RealChute components are broken.

The exorbantly large rewards for flying a jet engine into the sky is because I am using RealismLite

Edited November 8, 2019 by Autolyzed Yeast Extract

[dkavolis]

4 hours ago, Autolyzed Yeast Extract said:

Parachutes do not work. Log reveals this issue

  Hide contents

[LOG 22:20:21.396] Contract (Haul J-X4 "Whiplash" Turbo Ramjet Engine into flight above Kerbin.): Haul Complete! This will help us a great deal. Thanks!

<b><color=#8BED8B>Completion Rewards:</color></b> 
<color=#B4D455><sprite="CurrencySpriteAsset" name="Funds" tint=1>  378,000   </color>
<color=#6DCFF6><sprite="CurrencySpriteAsset" name="Science" tint=1> 2   </color>
<color=#E0D503><sprite="CurrencySpriteAsset" name="Reputation" tint=1> 4   </color>


[LOG 22:20:41.257] [FlightGlobals]: Active Vessel is in atmosphere. Cannot save.
[LOG 22:20:53.625] [RealChute]: parachuteRadial was activated in stage 0
[LOG 22:20:53.625] [RealChute]: parachuteRadial was activated in stage 0
[EXC 22:20:53.671] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
	FerramAerospaceResearch.RealChuteLite.RealChuteFAR.PreDeploy () (at <6338ca968c7c4c8a971a01d858e759df>:0)
	FerramAerospaceResearch.RealChuteLite.RealChuteFAR.FixedUpdate () (at <6338ca968c7c4c8a971a01d858e759df>:0)
[EXC 22:20:53.672] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
	FerramAerospaceResearch.RealChuteLite.RealChuteFAR.PreDeploy () (at <6338ca968c7c4c8a971a01d858e759df>:0)
	FerramAerospaceResearch.RealChuteLite.RealChuteFAR.FixedUpdate () (at <6338ca968c7c4c8a971a01d858e759df>:0)
[EXC 22:20:53.710] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
	FerramAerospaceResearch.RealChuteLite.RealChuteFAR.FollowDragDirection () (at <6338ca968c7c4c8a971a01d858e759df>:0)
	FerramAerospaceResearch.RealChuteLite.RealChuteFAR.FixedUpdate () (at <6338ca968c7c4c8a971a01d858e759df>:0)
[EXC 22:20:53.711] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
	FerramAerospaceResearch.RealChuteLite.RealChuteFAR.FollowDragDirection () (at <6338ca968c7c4c8a971a01d858e759df>:0)
	FerramAerospaceResearch.RealChuteLite.RealChuteFAR.FixedUpdate () (at <6338ca968c7c4c8a971a01d858e759df>:0)

 

Basically FAR is mad that I am not using RealChute, or FAR's built in RealChute components are broken.

The exorbantly large rewards for flying a jet engine into the sky is because I am using RealismLite

If you want support you will need to provide logs, MM cache and steps to reproduce.

[Beetlecat]

13 hours ago, Autolyzed Yeast Extract said:

Parachutes do not work. Log reveals this issue

  Reveal hidden contents

[LOG 22:20:21.396] Contract (Haul J-X4 "Whiplash" Turbo Ramjet Engine into flight above Kerbin.): Haul Complete! This will help us a great deal. Thanks!

<b><color=#8BED8B>Completion Rewards:</color></b> 
<color=#B4D455><sprite="CurrencySpriteAsset" name="Funds" tint=1>  378,000   </color>
<color=#6DCFF6><sprite="CurrencySpriteAsset" name="Science" tint=1> 2   </color>
<color=#E0D503><sprite="CurrencySpriteAsset" name="Reputation" tint=1> 4   </color>


[LOG 22:20:41.257] [FlightGlobals]: Active Vessel is in atmosphere. Cannot save.
[LOG 22:20:53.625] [RealChute]: parachuteRadial was activated in stage 0
[LOG 22:20:53.625] [RealChute]: parachuteRadial was activated in stage 0
[EXC 22:20:53.671] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
	FerramAerospaceResearch.RealChuteLite.RealChuteFAR.PreDeploy () (at <6338ca968c7c4c8a971a01d858e759df>:0)
	FerramAerospaceResearch.RealChuteLite.RealChuteFAR.FixedUpdate () (at <6338ca968c7c4c8a971a01d858e759df>:0)
[EXC 22:20:53.672] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
	FerramAerospaceResearch.RealChuteLite.RealChuteFAR.PreDeploy () (at <6338ca968c7c4c8a971a01d858e759df>:0)
	FerramAerospaceResearch.RealChuteLite.RealChuteFAR.FixedUpdate () (at <6338ca968c7c4c8a971a01d858e759df>:0)
[EXC 22:20:53.710] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
	FerramAerospaceResearch.RealChuteLite.RealChuteFAR.FollowDragDirection () (at <6338ca968c7c4c8a971a01d858e759df>:0)
	FerramAerospaceResearch.RealChuteLite.RealChuteFAR.FixedUpdate () (at <6338ca968c7c4c8a971a01d858e759df>:0)
[EXC 22:20:53.711] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
	FerramAerospaceResearch.RealChuteLite.RealChuteFAR.FollowDragDirection () (at <6338ca968c7c4c8a971a01d858e759df>:0)
	FerramAerospaceResearch.RealChuteLite.RealChuteFAR.FixedUpdate () (at <6338ca968c7c4c8a971a01d858e759df>:0)

 

Basically FAR is mad that I am not using RealChute, or FAR's built in RealChute components are broken.

The exorbantly large rewards for flying a jet engine into the sky is because I am using RealismLite

Are you also using ReStock? This sounds like a multi-layered mod conflict:

 

[Autolyzed Yeast Extract]

 

Are you also using ReStock? This sounds like a multi-layered mod conflict:

 

Yes

 

If you want support you will need to provide logs, MM cache and steps to reproduce.

throw me a bone ive never even heard of people asking for mm cache or what it is

https://gist.github.com/UsernameIsTakenAlready/b3709e9e923557b2cda95726b289b464

the parachute just does nothing when it deploys, place a chute on the craft with a similar gamedata and stage it and it will stage but not actually deploy

Edited November 9, 2019 by Autolyzed Yeast Extract

[Autolyzed Yeast Extract]

if anyone else has that problem, just delete the realchutelite folder in FAR for now, I don't really know what it's useful for but the normal parachute system works fine

it doesn't work fine, the parachutes deploy but do absolutely nothing. it's going to be a long time before most people play 1.8 at this rate

Edited November 9, 2019 by Autolyzed Yeast Extract

[dkavolis]

On 11/9/2019 at 1:46 AM, Autolyzed Yeast Extract said:

if anyone else has that problem, just delete the realchutelite folder in FAR for now, I don't really know what it's useful for but the normal parachute system works fine

it doesn't work fine, the parachutes deploy but do absolutely nothing. it's going to be a long time before most people play 1.8 at this rate

https://github.com/PorktoberRevolution/ReStocked/issues/751

It will be fixed on ReStock end. If you want faster support, you need to provide better information.

[CorvusCorax]

I have a question regarding FAR, 1.8.1 The Breaking Grounds extension pack and the recently added impellers:

https://imgur.com/a/WPr3NFx

Mods installed:

BreakingGrounds Expansion, FAR, TweakScale, Deadlyreentry, MechJeb, Kerbal Engineer, MechJeb+Eng for everything

Symptom:

I can't reach more than Mach 0.8 with an impeller driven craft.

Craft: https://pastebin.com/X58zcrUY

The maximum speed is achievable with a blade pitch of 45° at maximum RPM of the available stock (Breaking Grounds) motor ( 4* EM-16S with 6 blades each)
It's not possible to take of with that pitch, the blades stall, producing almost no thrust, to accelerate a variable pitch profile starting at more pitch (less blade AoA) and ramp it down from ~80° to 45°.  At less than 45° (even steeper AoA) no further increase in airspeed seems to be achievable at any altitude.

Note: I mapped Main Throttle to Engine Torque, leaving the RPM selection at max. As it turns out only minimal (5%) torque is needed to sustain Mach 0.8, resulting in quite long flight times with moderate battery sizes.

 

The craft has a somewhat MACH optimized cross section. I did not see any effect on the curves by modifying initial blade pitch setting.

This is the voxel visualization. Are the voxels too big to correctly work for these small parts?

the arrow visualization has this ring of purple arrows rotate around the craft

Questions:

1. How does FAR handle these rotating flight surfaces? Are Shock effects on individual blades and shock front interaction within the ducted fan modelled? What pitfalls do exist?

2. Does the inability to exceed Mach 0.8 have to do with local airspeed around the blades becoming supersonic?

3. Can supersonic flight potentially be achieved using appropriately shaped intakes or nozzles? (Aka, a shock cone built from a nosecone within a fan duct) Can FAR model these effects?

Any insight on this?

 

cheers

 

Corvus Corax

 

 

[dkavolis]

6 hours ago, CorvusCorax said:

I have a question regarding FAR, 1.8.1 The Breaking Grounds extension pack and the recently added impellers:

https://imgur.com/a/WPr3NFx

Mods installed:

BreakingGrounds Expansion, FAR, TweakScale, Deadlyreentry, MechJeb, Kerbal Engineer, MechJeb+Eng for everything

Symptom:

I can't reach more than Mach 0.8 with an impeller driven craft.

Craft: https://pastebin.com/X58zcrUY

The maximum speed is achievable with a blade pitch of 45° at maximum RPM of the available stock (Breaking Grounds) motor ( 4* EM-16S with 6 blades each)
It's not possible to take of with that pitch, the blades stall, producing almost no thrust, to accelerate a variable pitch profile starting at more pitch (less blade AoA) and ramp it down from ~80° to 45°.  At less than 45° (even steeper AoA) no further increase in airspeed seems to be achievable at any altitude.

Note: I mapped Main Throttle to Engine Torque, leaving the RPM selection at max. As it turns out only minimal (5%) torque is needed to sustain Mach 0.8, resulting in quite long flight times with moderate battery sizes.

 

The craft has a somewhat MACH optimized cross section. I did not see any effect on the curves by modifying initial blade pitch setting.

This is the voxel visualization. Are the voxels too big to correctly work for these small parts?

the arrow visualization has this ring of purple arrows rotate around the craft

Questions:

1. How does FAR handle these rotating flight surfaces? Are Shock effects on individual blades and shock front interaction within the ducted fan modelled? What pitfalls do exist?

2. Does the inability to exceed Mach 0.8 have to do with local airspeed around the blades becoming supersonic?

3. Can supersonic flight potentially be achieved using appropriately shaped intakes or nozzles? (Aka, a shock cone built from a nosecone within a fan duct) Can FAR model these effects?

Any insight on this?

 

cheers

 

Corvus Corax

 

 

Atm FAR has no support for robotics and propellers.

[CorvusCorax]

how are the forces on parts connected to a rotor calculated then?

does FAR treat the rotating part as if it was non-rotating in every "frame" (ignoring local veolicty relative to vehicle root) and the "observed thrust" is an inherent property of the propeller blade part itself when its turning?

I tried to confirm this with a few tests. Any surface of type "wing" does produce lift and drag when attached to a rotor hub or similar moving part. A similarly shaped body panel produces neither. This looks like "stock" behavior got adapted to produce "moving wing lift" but FAR ignores the part or at least its rotational motion. Is that correct?

 

I tried to be "smart" and put the rotor on upside down, added the probe core to the "wing panels" and added a decoupler at the bottom of the motor, so I could detach and launch the "rotating probe" once it was spinning, (now with no more robotics parts involved) but again I did not get any lift with the rotating parts unless they were "wings"

Is there a problem where FAR does only calculate lift for translational movement but not for rotational movement, reverting to stock lift calculation for rotational motion? (aka no body lift for lift generated by craft rotation)?)

 

https://imgur.com/a/eGgqLYZ

this is a detached probe core (with some empty tanks for stabilization) spun up, with wings attached. the rotating wings produce lift in far (can be seen both with the arrow visualization and the fact the "rocket" takes of)

the very same craft, spun up and detached but with tilted body panels instead of dedicated "wings" - in FAR this shouldn't make a difference, yet...

the rotating body panels produce neither lift nor rotational drag.

Edited November 11, 2019 by CorvusCorax
visualization

[kcs123]

3 hours ago, CorvusCorax said:

how are the forces on parts connected to a rotor calculated then?

does FAR treat the rotating part as if it was non-rotating in every "frame" (ignoring local veolicty relative to vehicle root) and the "observed thrust" is an inherent property of the propeller blade part itself when its turning?

Sort of. You need to search trough this thread several pages back, when BG DLC was published for the first time. In short, FAR need proper trigger that it can hook on, like animation start/end or pilot input and similar. For example, Infernal robotics does that properly, whenever IR parts is moved it call FAR API to recalculate voxelization and drag/lift forces in apropriate manner.

However, official KSP DLC does not do that, it is not "aware" of FAR mod and does not call any FAR API to recalculate anything. It has to be other way around, FAR need to know when is something changed to recalculate forces properly. Unfortunately, KSP does not provide any way trough their API to be able to do that. Therefore, BG DLC can't be supported by FAR.

What you see on the picture, that forces are changed is due to random events(triggers) in the game that caused FAR to re-calculate something. So, you can get wrong impression that DLC parts work, but you don't get expected lift/drag/thrust forces. You got wrong calculated values because FAR was not able to calculate everything on time.

[ephemer3al]

Not sure how relevant this is but all vtols Ive made with BG hinges have drag  properly applied

https://media.giphy.com/media/Kemy4B52w0HBf29TMG/giphy.gif

@Corvus FAR assumes only wings act as wings to cut compute workload

Edited November 14, 2019 by ephemer3al

[KerbMav]

6 hours ago, ephemer3al said:

@Corvus FAR assumes only wings act as wings to cut compute workload

But I thought lifting bodies were a thing?