[KSP 1.8 - 1.12+] - Probes Before Crew [PBC] Version 2.93

[_Zee]

On 3/7/2023 at 9:38 AM, Czejenesku said:

Forget my last post - solved. 
But I do have another problem - im using this with KSRSS Reborn, which is 2.5 scale. How should I set the shown difficulty options with that in mind?

 

You're combining mods with PBC that weren't meant to be used with it so trial and error is your best bet here. PBC's whole layout is pretty dependent on the assumption that you're playing with the stock Kerbin Solar System, it's an important part of how node positioning was determined. I've never used re-scaling mods so I don't have any experience to share, perhaps others who combine the rescalers with PBC can provide some tips and best practices. Just going on a blind guess, I'd probably adjust the difficulty to be a little easier with large scale systems.

Edited March 9, 2023 by _Zee

[Czejenesku]

On 3/9/2023 at 2:35 AM, _Zee said:

 

You're combining mods with PBC that weren't meant to be used with it so trial and error is your best bet here. PBC's whole layout is pretty dependent on the assumption that you're playing with the stock Kerbin Solar System, it's an important part of how node positioning was determined. I've never used re-scaling mods so I don't have any experience to share, perhaps others who combine the rescalers with PBC can provide some tips and best practices. Just going on a blind guess, I'd probably adjust the difficulty to be a little easier with large scale systems.

They recommend to set DSN mod. to 4 so its safe to assume that with your mod it would 3.35. Will fiddle with other settings, so far its pretty good. 

[Roninpawn]

I've played PBC to just-before interplanetary so far, and it's everything I always wanted from pacing, gameplay, and progression, that KSP has always lacked. This is an amazing piece of work, and I'm now of the opinion that PBC is the definitive way to play Kerbal.

So thank you, and congratulations on the excellent work you've done here.

I will be starting up a fresh career playthrough on Twitch tonight, and expect to play into the career, further than I have taken any before. Because the modified tech tree and contracts actually keep it interesting! Now, listen... We're on page 23 of a forum thread started in 2018, for a mod to a game that has already been significantly displaced by the early access to its sequel... So, what comes next isn't advertising or self promotion. It's an invitation to the mod's author, to pop in and see someone enjoying their work, while occasionally slamming the stream to a halt, to gush about how well balanced it is.

We're at twitch.tv/roninpawn -- I'm too bed-ridden with chronic disability to commit to a schedule. So, we'll play when we play. You'll find a link to the YouTube channel where I upload the VODs, there on the Twitch page, in case you're interested, but can't make it live.

Just wanted to loop you in.
Again, excellent work. I'll never play a stock Kerbal career again.

-Pawn OUT-uhhh!

[manyaktava]

How do i download this mod manually.Ive tried ckan and it didnt work.

 

[_Zee]

On 8/28/2023 at 1:28 AM, Roninpawn said:

I've played PBC to just-before interplanetary so far, and it's everything I always wanted from pacing, gameplay, and progression, that KSP has always lacked. This is an amazing piece of work, and I'm now of the opinion that PBC is the definitive way to play Kerbal.

-snip-

Thanks a bunch for all the kind words! It's really amazing to me that KSP continues to have such a large fanbase after all these years and PBC continues to see regular downloads everyday. It's a really awesome feeling knowing that my mod is a part of making that experience better for a lot of people.

Your stream sounds like a lot of fun and sorry it took me 2 weeks to reply, things have definitely slowed down around here so I forget to check in sometimes.
You really made my day friend, thanks again for taking the time to share your praise. Cheers!

[scottadges]

Hi all! Great work keeping the mod alive @_Zee this has made my latest (now almost 3 years old) KSP1 career game a much more strategic & tactical affair. I take pretty long breaks between KSP, but it's always nice to come back.

Anyway, I'm struggling to find in the tech tree where the unlock for Mechjeb's Ascent Guidance (to automatically control launches) is in the revised/CTT with this mod?

I'm about to unlock "Unmanned Tech" for 300 and then there's "Advanced Unmanned Tech" for 550 which has a note saying "Probe cores can do almost anything now." From what you know, is that the last unlock for Mechjeb?

[_Zee]

PBC has no patches for Mechjeb (it didn't need any) so it should be whatever the default CTT node is defined by Mechjeb. I think I recall some of the drip-fed tech-unlocked features of MechJeb don't actually display in the tech tree, they just sit silently in one of the nodes I think. Attached to the Probe Core branch of the tech tree? But now my memory is really stretching...

Edited November 2, 2023 by _Zee

[scottadges]

On 11/2/2023 at 3:43 PM, _Zee said:

PBC has no patches for Mechjeb (it didn't need any) so it should be whatever the default CTT node is defined by Mechjeb. I think I recall some of the drip-fed tech-unlocked features of MechJeb don't actually display in the tech tree, they just sit silently in one of the nodes I think. Attached to the Probe Core branch of the tech tree? But now my memory is really stretching...

Thanks @_Zee for your response. I actually found that I was looking for the wrong thing! It's the little icon for the MechJeb thing under "Unmanned Tech" that has the Ascent Guidance and then the next "Advanced Unmanned Tech" which has the Automated Docking, etc. So those are both the standard CTT then. Leaving this note here for future generations! Thanks 

[Kerbal2023]

I just installed the mod for the first time. Seems to work. Thank you very much.

But I got enough Science to unlock the first two tech tree nodes (11 points) without launching the rocket. Seems a bit much. And that's havign set the science rewards multiplier to 80%, which the manual says is hard.

[Kerbal2023]

So not all experiments are available in all biomes? I only get a temperature scan over Kerbin's shores.

[Kerbal2023]

I tried liking this tech tree, but it's kind of annoying.  Why do I get the Swivel before more crude liquid fuel rockets? It literally says in the description that it is an improvement of other types. So why do we get it first? Also better probe cores come way too soon. I can basically do a few experiments on the launch pad, and there is no reason to use the Stayputnik in any real way to get the science to get better cores.

In what file is this stuff?

[Kerbal2023]

I noticed the guide in the OP says that Celestial Body Science Multipliers on Kerbin are 1.5 for landed and 0.8 for all else. But in the file it appears to be the opposite.

[_Zee]

{snip}

The mod is configured correctly. Try playing with the mod for more than a few hours before you draw any final conclusions about the design. It is meant to impact an entire career after all. If you still don't like the mod, uninstalling is a very simple process.

If you look at the CBSM multiplier chart more closely, Kerbin is noted as 1.5 for SpaceAny and 0.8 for AllElse. The notes are right there in the chart. Have fun!

Edited November 22, 2023 by Gargamel
Content redacted by moderator

[Kerbal2023]

Don't get me wrong. I was asking for technical advice, not critisizing the mod. It works very well now and makes the game much better.

I just had to adjust a few details to my particular neurotic sensibilities.

Edited November 24, 2023 by Kerbal2023

[SpudNutimus]

If I were to write the long-desired Restock+ and Near Future Exploration configs for PBC myself could they be added into the mod, or is it completely derelict at this point?

[_Zee]

I don't check in to the forums very often these days, but the mod is definitely not derelict. Still fully functional and ready for use with the full mod list.

There haven't been any game-changing patches in years so most mods are just coasting through to the sunset now.

[RunaDacino]

Heya,

Is there a chance that B9 procedural wings could be placed earlier in the tech tree? If using FAR, those wings make a massive difference and if they come so late, their only use will be for spaceplane stuff rather than early crewed science gathering EVA/Crew reports.

[WolfieKSP]

Hello, this mod looks great! But I'm concerned with the science modding, will it be compatible with RSS?

[mrlafle]

Hi, I'm playing thru with this mod for the first time in a while. I have most of the supported part mods installed, but I just noticed a lot of the endgame tech categories are empty:

• off-world robotics
• gigantic rocketry
• microwave power transmission
• colossal rocketry
• resource exploitation
• high-energy science
• high power electrical systems
• applied high energy physics
• experimental electrical systems
• exotic radiators
• advanced colonization
• ultra high energy physics
• exotic plasma propulsion
• exotic electrical systems

 

Can anyone tell me what any of these are supposed to have for parts? If they wound up somewhere else in the tree then it's not a huge deal, but it looks like I'm missing out on a lot of endgame stuff.

I searched for all of these in the .cfg files in the Mod Support folder, and found that Gigantic Rocketry is supposed to have some engines from NF Launch Vehicles. But I looked in the Engines folder of that mod and couldn't find any of the parts mentioned. I'm not sure if they got renamed or something. Other than that, I couldnt find any of these tech levels in any of the .cfg files of this mod. 

[any 1]

Restock&Restock+ !

[OnlyLightMatters]

Hi  @_Zee hope you're doing well.
I saw there are 4 pull requests on your mod on Github. Regarding KSP2 being dead now, do you consider accepting them or you do consider the mod is finished?

I made 2 files for Shared Assets & Stowaway Benjee's mods (one can test them from my Github) but no PR yet; so let me know what are your thoughts regarding your mod which have been a basis of my gameplay for 3 years.

Edited July 15 by OnlyLightMatters

[Hojoz]

I'd love to know how these tech tree mods are made, I just don't know where to ask for that information. So I figured I'd ask here.

You see, I'd like to make a custom tech tree myself for a cool playthrough thing I have planned for a while now

[Jacke]

On 7/27/2024 at 1:08 PM, Hojoz said:

I'd love to know how these tech tree mods are made, I just don't know where to ask for that information. So I figured I'd ask here.

You see, I'd like to make a custom tech tree myself for a cool playthrough thing I have planned for a while now

I can't make a .dll to do the fancy stuff.  But I can craft a ModuleManager file to change what Parts are on what Tech Tree Nodes and some of their numbers.  I saw how that was done back when I was part of the KSP Community that played the long defunct mod "Better Than Starting Manned".

But alas, I don't have the time nor the energy to pursue much of anything right now in KSP.

I would suggest, like this mod, not changing the structure of the Tech Tree but to move the Parts around and change some of the numbers.  That way there's something that Players are familiar with, the shape of the Tech Tree, when introducing the new.  Also fits in with the Community Tech Tree.

It's key in mods to figure out what's the minimum changes to do to achieve the mod's goals.  Because the more changes there are, the heavier the mod's maintenance is.  A bit less of a problem now, what with no new releases of KSP itself expected.  But other key mods are still under development.  And thus any mod wanting to work with them will need some maintenance.

I wish this mod had a more active community. 

[_Zee]

Been a few months since I checked in so I'll just get to work answering these in order!
 

On 4/23/2024 at 2:11 AM, RunaDacino said:

-snip
Is there a chance that B9 procedural wings could be placed earlier in the tech tree?
-snip

The file you want, in order to make these changes, is labeled "ZsB9AerospacePatch.cfg" located in ProbesBeforeCrew/Mod Support.
 

On 5/2/2024 at 4:01 AM, WolfieKSP said:

Hello, this mod looks great! But I'm concerned with the science modding, will it be compatible with RSS?

I'm not sure what RSS does/is doing with science adjustments, (and as a reminder PBC is not designed to work with any custom solar system out of the box) - but you can always change/customize/return-to-default the Science Modifiers from in-game using ScienceParamModifier (by @DMagic) that comes packaged with PBC.
 

On 5/27/2024 at 11:52 AM, mrlafle said:

Hi, I'm playing thru with this mod for the first time in a while. I just noticed a lot of the endgame tech categories are empty:
-snip

Many of the extreme-end-game nodes are indeed empty. The CTT gave us a lot of nodes, certainly plenty of extras. There are very few mods with parts that belong all the way back there, and even fewer of those mods that are supported by PBC. Pretty much NF is the only PBC-supported-mod with parts that make sense being placed so far back at the end of the tech tree.
 

On 7/14/2024 at 5:52 PM, OnlyLightMatters said:

-snip
I saw there are 4 pull requests on your mod on Github. Regarding KSP2 being dead now, do you consider accepting them or you do consider the mod is finished?
-snip

I always forget I even have a GitHub for PBC, lol. I've never used it even when development for the mod was still active. I'll try to remember to go check that after this and DM you, thanks.
 

On 7/27/2024 at 6:08 AM, Hojoz said:

I'd love to know how these tech tree mods are made...
-snip

Well there's a lot to learn and there are probably better sources for learning than me, but I'd say the simplest place to start is by cracking open my mod (or anyone's mod) and just looking through all the .cfg files. Study the syntax and keywords, try making a change to something and then saving the file, and then finally check in game to see if your changes worked. Some mods do indeed make use of .dll files, which require a more advanced understanding of programming, but my mod runs 100% on .cfg files. Simple text files that you can open with any text editor, I personally use notepad++.

My "first mod" some 20 years ago was just opening someone else's mod and making some small change for myself, I'd probably guess that's how most modders get started. So start there!
Just don't upload/share anything until your work is truly unique from those you learned from, and always give credit where its due.

Edited September 7 by _Zee

[SpudNutimus]

@_Zee Hello, I know this is a big ask but... would you be open to letting me adopt PBC for future maintenance? I know the mod is basically done and still works fine as-is, but it hasn't been updated in years and a few things have become slightly dated; I could keep up with any necessary dusting when it comes to mod compatibility (finish off Restock+ compatibility and update some other bundled patches to more current mod versions) and deal with any future pull requests, etc., as necessary. If you don't want that then that's fine, just figured I'd ask.