BDA manned fighter competition

[panzerknoef]

 

Kerbal Fighter Jet Endeavour

 

Kerbin is at the brink of a global war. Nations across the globe are rushing to get their fleets of fighter jets ready for the day war breaks out. Awful for the planet, but now is the perfect time for aerospace corporations everywhere to bloom! Your mission is to design the best possible jet, but that’s not where it ends! You’ll also have to sell them…

 

The leaderboard

 

First of all you’ll obviously have to design an aircraft. The only rule is that the plane has to be manned, no drone battles here. External command seats will not be accepted either. The rest of the design is fairly simple really, apart from a few parts, you can do whatever you want (more on that later)! Of course the plane has to be capable of taking off under its own power.

The banned parts are:

• BDA Armor
• All shapes and sizes of turrets
• Laser armament
• The use of the armor slider is also prohibited

Further than that, if you wish to put in reaction wheels, RCS, whatever, go ahead, it’s all allowed! However, there’s a 100 part limit (don’t want to limit this competition to only the best computers).

(optional)The second part is actually selling it. Every player can, beside sending in planes, act as a buyer for some imaginary nation. Everyone gets a budget of 10.000.000 credits to spend on a fleet of your choice (obviously you can’t buy your own aircraft). The best fighter won’t just fight well, it’ll also sell well. This way I hope to promote cheaper and more aesthetic designs as well as purely functional ones.  As a plane designer you’ll have to write a sales pitch to convince buyers of your craft. The following data has to be in your pitch: cost, crew number, type (single engine, dual engine, …) and obviously a link to download your craft (preferably put that in the leaderboard as well).

The leaderboard consist of multiple categories based on the amount of engines:

-          Single engine

-          Dual engine

-          Go crazy (basically everything that doesn't fit in the above 2 categories)

The tournament itself will be organized in such a way that I don’t have to be present to lead everything, this way it can continue as long as people wish to, even if I am no longer active in the forums. So, how does it work? Planes will be taken together in groups of 5 (check the spreadsheet if you’re confused right now). If you wish to enter your plane, all you have to do is start a battle with the bottom plane of the highest rated group of 5. If you win, your plane enters this board and gets to fight upwards against the other 4 planes. The plane formerly on spot 5 drops to the lower table. If you lose, you start against the lowest rated plane of the group below. This process just repeats itself until your planes finishes somewhere. In the rare case that you don’t manage to win against anyone, you just put your plane all the way at the bottom of the lowest group (if that one is full, make a new one).

Fighting itself will happen in 3 rounds of 2v2, all viewed from a neutral point of view for physics sake. Battles will be run in standard KSP physics, this isn’t a FAR competition, and it will never be. All fighting will be done by the BDA-AI, therefore the settings of the autopilot play a major role in the success of your aircraft. The actual order in which the battles are fought doesn’t matter, as long as all 3 are fought. If you win 2 your plane gets to move on. Moving up is seen as 1 offensive victory in the spreadsheet. Losing to a plane above is a defensive victory for the above craft. 

Spoiler

To start the battles, just use the the BDA dogfight competition option. Run it on standard settings like the ones below

 

The battles are:

-          2 of yours from KSC vs 2 enemy planes from the island runway.

-          Opposite of the round above.

-          Both groups of 2 take off from KSC in opposite directions.

For the sake of easiness, it is not mandatory to record your battles. I’ll go ahead and trust all of you to be honest and fair in reporting your victories and defeats, if you however do wish to record the battle and provide us with a video, please do!

Yes, I will play out and record battles for you. I still highly encourage everyone to do this for themselves. Should you want me to do them for you, do mention it in your submission, and keep in mind that it will take longer this way since I have other stuff to take care of as well! On top of that, I'm not very good at video recording, I can edit but probably won't take the effort to do that... 

Mods required:

-          BDArmory for the latest version of KSP.

-          PhysicsRangeExtender (should already be installed for BDA to work anyway)

-          AirplanePlus

Text editing any files (eg: raising hitpoints) is very much forbidden and if anyone gets caught doing this, all their planes will instantly be disqualified and the player will be banned from entering the competition again.

 

That’s it! If you have any questions or feel like something could still be improved, feel free to write a comment about it and I’ll look in to it asap. Good luck!

Edited January 17, 2019 by panzerknoef

[panzerknoef]

Presenting: The MAS-M1!

The MAS-M1 is a fairly simple and straightforward jet. It is powered by a single turbo-ramjet engine capable of bringing the plane to speeds well over mach 2. As is obvious with a single engine, it shall be competing in the single engine competition. The plane has a crew of 2 for the very simple reason that the 2 person cockpit weighs less than the single pilot cockpit... The plane features excellent maneuverability thanks to it's wide wings and large control surfaces. The cost of all this is a fairly reasonable 46,149 credits. 

Get yours here: https://kerbalx.com/Panzerknoef/MAS-M1

 

I've done a battle of myself just to show how exactly it works. I'll only actually enter one of these planes though (they're not even good, rather a proof of concept)

The Battle: MAS-M1 vs T-1

Round 1: MAS-M1 from island vs T-1 from KSC

Spoiler

The MAS-M1 squadron

The T-1 team

Round one was rather exciting, with the T-1's managing to score the first kill. However, the MAS-M1 managed to even the scores by taking down a T-1. The MAS-M1 eventually even managed to win!

Round 2: MAS-M1 vs T-1 back to back start at KSC

Spoiler

both teams set up back to back for round 2. T-1 in the front, MAS-M1 in the back

Round 2 was a very easy win for team T-1. The faster paced combat of this round was too much for the MAS-M1 as both struggled to stay airborne after pulling successive tight turns. Team T-1 won 2-0.

Round 3: MAS-M1 from KSC vs T-1 from island

Spoiler

 Round 3 once again goes to the MAS-M1. Seems like it's the better plane when it has more to gain speed. This time the M1's managed to take the lead, but quickly saw the scores evened out again. The following intense 1v1 dogfight was eventually decided by gunfire. 

Winner: MAS-M1. 

Edited January 7, 2019 by panzerknoef

[goduranus]

Turrets are allowed, so current ruleset favors a plane with turrets.

[panzerknoef]

5 hours ago, goduranus said:

Turrets are allowed, so current ruleset favors a plane with turrets.

Yes it does, do you think it would be better to ban the turrets altogether? 

[goduranus]

Well, it's up to you, but IMO having turrets favor battleship styled crafts, instead of fighters. Another thing, I think you should put a restriction on changing armor thickness via the slider. I think this is a must as it makes planes really really though without any downsides.

Let me send in a craft, sorry I forgot to take off from the island runway, I can redo it if you want.

Aerial Corvette "P-1011 Sovereign"

These days, the market is flooded with fragile, maneuverable fighters. The Common Aerospace Corporation asks a simple question: can the most maneuverable of fighter planes outmaneuver a CIWS turret?

-Single engine, commercial grade Goliath engine, off the shelf availability and easy to maintain

-43 parts, goes easy on your computer so you can have more of them

-64232 kredits, not dirt cheap but well worth the price in its capability and durability.

https://kerbalx.com/goduranus/P-1011-Sovereign

P-1011 vs MAS-M1

3 victories for P-1011, all battles played out the same as in the video with both sides dodging all missiles, and P-1011 winning close range combat.

Edited January 9, 2019 by goduranus

[panzerknoef]

2 hours ago, goduranus said:

Well, it's up to you, but IMO having turrets favor battleship styled crafts, instead of fighters. Another thing, I think you should put a restriction on changing armor thickness via the slider. I think this is a must as it makes planes really really though without any downsides.

Let me send in a craft, sorry I forgot to take off from the island runway, I can redo it if you want.

Aerial Corvette "P-1011 Sovereign"

These days, the market is flooded with fragile, maneuverable fighters. The Common Aerospace Corporation asks a simple question: can the most maneuverable of fighter planes outmaneuver a CIWS turret?

-Single engine, commercial grade Goliath engine, off the shelf availability and easy to maintain

-43 parts, goes easy on your computer so you can have more of them

-64232 kredits, not dirt cheap but well worth the price in its capability and durability.

https://kerbalx.com/goduranus/P-1011-Sovereign

P-1011 vs MAS-M1

3 victories for P-1011, all battles played out the same as in the video with both sides dodging all missiles, and P-1011 winning close range combat.

Hmmmm, I see what you mean now... Even though I can't deny that having battleship style aircraft battle each other absolutely has its charm, it is indeed not exactly in the spirit of the challenge since it's about fighters and not behemoths... Perhaps it's worth a challenge of its own, or I could make a category out of it. But you're definitely right, I'm gonna put them as prohibited for now. Completely forgot about the armor slider too! Thanks for all the advice!! 

[panzerknoef]

Just in case someone actually does care, I've taken the effort of adding planes in every current category of the competition, this way you'll always have something to fight against to begin with, instead of having to wait for someone else to build a craft and fight yours. 

I've also made part 2 of the challenge optional, could be useful for those who really want to build a fighter and do the combat part, but don't care to write a sales pitch about it. I do hope this change will make the challenge a bit more popular. Any other improvements you guys can think of, please write them down! I'd really like this challenge to be a success, and I hope y'all are willing to be a part of that!

 

Anyway, I'll go ahead and present the newly added planes...

Zircon Aerospace (military branch of KnoefCo Aerospace) Introduces 2 new planes to the market: the Zircon Wrangell-1A&1T

Starting off with the Zircon Wrangell-1A

The Zircon Wrangell-1A is a twin engined fighter, designed and built to function at very high speeds and very high G loads. The Wrangell-1A is extremely maneuverable, but it's also capable of reaching speeds well over mach 2! The plane is armed with 6 AIM-120 missiles, backed up with another 6 AIM-9 Sidewinders. To finish it off, a 30mm rotary cannon was placed in the nose. The airplane is usually flown by 2 crew members, but should it be possible, it can also be flown by one. What's the cost of all this, you might wonder... Well, the entire package comes at a reasonable price of 51,697 credits, in our opinion, a very good price for a plane of this quality!

Download link: https://kerbalx.com/Panzerknoef/Zircon-Wrangell-1A

 

Secondly we have the Zircon Wrangell-1B

Engineers wanted to improve upon the already pretty good Wrangell-1A, turns out that that was a lot harder than expected. Eventually the only decent solution was to add more engines (2 more for a total of 4, which means this plane will be competing in the "go crazy" category) and also to add a bunch of reaction wheels. A measure aimed at enhancing the accuracy with which the aircraft can fly. Armament is further identical to the Wrangell-1A, we looked into changing the rotary cannon for a bunch of Vulcans, but that wasn't an improvement, contrary even. Crew setup is the same as well, boasting room for 2 kerbals. Along with the performance, we had to increase the price as well, now up to 60,497 credits. 

Download link: https://kerbalx.com/Panzerknoef/Zircon-Wrangell-1T

[Triop]

@panzerknoef Wauw, what an inspiring design !

I had to make a stock fighter using your shaping.

I've named this the Panzer K as a tribute.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Triop

[Triop]

I made a J-404 Panther version.

I might do some BDA stuff on it for this competition.

Are you in 1.6 ?

[panzerknoef]

7 hours ago, Triop said:

@panzerknoef Wauw, what an inspiring design !

I had to make a stock fighter using your shaping.

I've named this the Panzer K as a tribute.

I'm glad you like the design! Gotta say I'm pretty happy about it myself, especially satisfied with how the wings turned out! Your versions are absolutely beauties as well, the black one looks so slick! What did you use on the back of the main wing though, is that a big control surface? 

And yes I'm in 1.6! If you are indeed planning to join, I'm already looking forward to what you'll come up with! 

[Triop]

I'll start with sending in my MiG-21.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/quhg1qe81xrkt48/MiG-21 BIS BDA.craft?dl=0

 

Edited January 16, 2019 by Triop

[Triop]

Dual engine: MiG-29

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gxysssesddgjptg/Mig 29 BDA Stock.craft?dl=0

[panzerknoef]

Finally, the first fight of the competition has taken place. @Triop's Mig-21 BIS BDA takes on the MAS-M1 in 3 rounds!

 

 

The end result was kinda surprising to me. The MAS-M1 manages to get a simple 3-0 victory, winning every single round. I think the main reason why it won is because the Mig just lacks the amount of armament to really put up a proper fight. It carries only 4 missiles compared to the 8 which the MAS carries. There was a few situations where the Mig could've taken the win if it would still have some missiles to fire. Instead it had to go in and try to get the kill with gunfire (where it once again is under armed, carrying only a single Vulcan). While the MAS was in a flatspin (one of the great weaknesses of the plane, it's about as stable as the American government), the Mig couldn't manage a hit, and on the overshoot would get taken down by a missile from the MAS. 

Winner: MAS-M1

And yes, I will play out and record battles for you. I still highly encourage everyone to do this for yourself. Should you want me to do them for you, do mention it in your submission, and keep in mind that it will take longer this way since I have other stuff to take care of as well! On top of that, I'm not very good at video recording, I can edit but probably won't take the effort to do that... 

 

also, the Mig-29 has some KAS part on it, so I can't open it to test... Also, if it has a few weapons as the Mig-21, I recommend giving it a few more! 

Edited January 17, 2019 by panzerknoef

[Triop]

12 hours ago, panzerknoef said:

also, the Mig-29 has some KAS part on it, so I can't open it to test...

I'll fix it, thanks for letting me know.

I'm not surprised the MiG 21 lost, it's an old plane (1956)

I could improve it, maybe it will come back later.

I'll work on the MiG 29 now and upload it here.

One more thing, you're videos aren't really showing much of the battle, maybe zoom in more to see more action ?

 

 

Edited January 17, 2019 by Triop

[panzerknoef]

28 minutes ago, Triop said:

I'll fix it, thanks for letting me know.

I'm not surprised the MiG 21 lost, it's an old plane (1956)

I could improve it, maybe it will come back later.

I'll work on the MiG 29 now and upload it here.

One more thing, you're videos aren't really showing much of the battle, maybe zoom in more to see more action ?

 

 

It might be old, but definitely not bad! And I really am pretty sure that it could win with a few small adjustments... If you do wish to ever enter it again, feel free to submit it and I'll just run the battles again. 

Yes I know they're excrementsty perspective wise, I'll probably drop a capsule or something in the middle between KSC and the island. I'd love to show the fighting from plane point of view, but that seems to screw with physics here and there (missiles blowing up shortly after being launched etc), that doesn't happen if you're watching from a neutral point. I'll just move the point then, and work on my scrolling skills! 

[Triop]

28 minutes ago, panzerknoef said:

but that seems to screw with physics here and there (missiles blowing up shortly after being launched etc), that doesn't happen if you're watching from a neutral point.

I agree, depending from what plane you are looking from influence the outcome.

To be honest I'm not taking BDA to seriously, I don't mind losing.

I think seeing a good fight upclose is the fun with BDA, whoever wins or loses.

I've just downloaded your MAS M1, maybe I'll do a video myself.

It's all good fun.

Here is a video I made some time ago, I try to show of the planes as close as possible:

Spoiler

 

 

Edited January 17, 2019 by Triop

[Triop]

Inspecting your MAS M1, I can see you did some heavy tuning.

It's legal I suppose, but if I knew I would have set my altitude higher, and my angle of attack...

Took it for a testflight, almost impossible to fly.

 

Edited January 17, 2019 by Triop

[panzerknoef]

7 hours ago, Triop said:

Inspecting your MAS M1, I can see you did some heavy tuning.

It's legal I suppose, but if I knew I would have set my altitude higher, and my angle of attack...

Took it for a testflight, almost impossible to fly.

 

To quote the OP, "therefore the settings of the autopilot play a major role in the success of your aircraft." so yes it's definitely legal and you're even very much supposed to do so in order to get the best out of your aircraft! The MAS absolutely flies like a huge turd, that's exactly why I was surprised it actually won all battles! The thing goes in a spin if you do as much as look at it badly... 

Not minding losing is the only way to go imo, it's about the fun in participating, not winning, doesn't take away that winning is nice though! 

For the recording, maybe the island battles should always be recorded from the point of view of the ones taking off from KSC, this way both battles have one team in the disadvantage, which seems fair. This leaves only the back-to-back round with the neutral perspective. Should make watching it a lot more pleasant. 

[goduranus]

Ok new craft, single engine category:

X-37 Ulysses

Single crewed, single engine interceptor, costing a mere 37,641 kredits. Armed with 4 sidewinders, 3 vulcans, and strong ECM.

https://kerbalx.com/goduranus/X-37-Ulysses

[panzerknoef]

12 hours ago, goduranus said:

Ok new craft, single engine category:

X-37 Ulysses

Single crewed, single engine interceptor, costing a mere 37,641 kredits. Armed with 4 sidewinders, 3 vulcans, and strong ECM.

https://kerbalx.com/goduranus/X-37-Ulysses

Looks like something straight from the future! I'll try to simulate some battles tomorrow if I've got time! Thanks for joining in again! 

[panzerknoef]

Matchday 2 sees the new contestant, @goduranus's X-37 Ulysses, take on the plane in the number 2 spot, the Mig-21 BIS BDA

 

 

 

In the end it was an easy win for the Ulysses. Managing a 3-0 victory over the defending Mig. In all 3 battles combined, the Ulysses team only lost a single aircraft. This victory sees the Ulysses rise up the number 2 spot, from where it will take on the MAS-M1. By the looks of it, this aircraft will take the number one spot without too many difficulties, but we will see if I'm right about that later!

[panzerknoef]

Next fight: Title defender MAS-M1 vs the X-37 Ulysses. The outcome...both surprising and unsurprising! Anyway, on to the battles!

First of all, I think this set of battles really shows just how incredibly bad the MAS is, which in some way is good, since that means it does exactly what I wanted it to do, being a beatable target! I'm honestly surprised it wasn't a 3-0 victory for the X-37! A 2-1 outcome is pretty respectable, especially against a proper plane such as the X-37. It remains a mystery to me how the MAS actually managed to win that first round though, especially since it started off with one of the MAS's blowing up the other one in friendly fire... Regardless though, congrats to @goduranus! Your X-37 Ulysses has made it to the top of the list, let's see how long it manages to stay on top!