Flat-Bottom Shuttle Systems

[Fr8monkey]

Use the Usi life support and KIS. NBD if you don’t. There are a ton of mods that might be a pain to keep up with  

 

PS.  Maybe a larger crew cabin?

[Starlord Kerman]

3 minutes ago, Fr8monkey said:

Maybe a larger crew cabin

I'm not sure when you'd need a bigger crew cabin, it currently holds 8. Space tourism perhaps? 

[linuxgurugamer]

The Mk2.5 Spaceplane parts, which is similar in size, has a crew module, you can make it as long as you want

[Fr8monkey]

25 minutes ago, Starlord Kerman said:

I'm not sure when you'd need a bigger crew cabin, it currently holds 8. Space tourism perhaps? 

I thought it was 2. Played around with it last week and didn’t see the update until today. 

[Starlord Kerman]

I noticed a mistake in the last update. The lift deflection coefficient of the "TriShuttleFlapsLeft" part was left as 4 instead of 2. It should have been turned down to 2 when I split up the flaps (and the rest were).  I'll re-upload the mod to spacedock again soon, but for now you can just go into the .cfg file and adjust the coefficient. 

[arius32]

congrats on a wonderful project, everything looks so good, and the parts fit together nicely, great work!
if this project gets complex (more parts) enough i might actually just stop using OPT space planes
a couple of notes :

--+-- on the current release there seems to be something wrong with the wings that wasn't there before (on the first release),
seems like every time i try to launch (shuttle style) or takeoff (runway) the plane will split to pieces starting from the part connected to the wings,
i tried replacing the wings with other wings and the problem goes away, I'm using 3 vector engines at the back.

- are the parts supposed to be this heavy ? the smallest space plane i can make with your parts is roughly 50t , just about 20t shy of a similar MK3, was that a design decision ?

- since i always play with either Kerbalism or MKS (i guess i'm not alone), i always need habitat space on my vessels, that and some kind of service module or recycler or configurable life support part to maintain crews for the duration of flight,
it's pretty janky to use these life support parts with your current parts, it would be great if you could make something to address that (at some point), maybe a tri version of the universal storage bays? you know? the ones you grow or shorten depending on your needs, i mean the parts are already there from universal containers, i/we just need a frame for them.

thanks a lot for reading, great project.
 

Edited February 2, 2019 by arius32
spelling and clarification

[Starlord Kerman]

9 hours ago, arius32 said:

are the parts supposed to be this heavy

To determine the mass of the parts and the fuel volumes I used this thread. 85% of the total volume is fuel, and the mass of the part is 1/8th the mass of the fuel. The triangular cross-section volume is much more than a cylindrical 2.5m cross-section so it makes sense the parts would weigh more (and hold more fuel), somewhere between a 2.5m cylinder and an mk3 part. There is though some variation to this rule for the crew holding parts, wings, and docking modules as the mass for such parts would be higher than that determined from their fuel capacity, and so there were some design decisions that had to be made. Is there a specific part I should check the mass on?

9 hours ago, arius32 said:

since i always play with either Kerbalism or MKS...maybe a tri version of the universal storage bays

I can't say I've ever played with those mods. I could take a look at compatibility, but no guarantees. I'm currently working on wing attachment method stuff.

10 hours ago, arius32 said:

the plane will split to pieces starting from the part connected to the wings

That's not a problem I've experienced, but I am taking a look at new wing attachment methods to try to incorporate mirroring and stuff. Hopefully this will be fixed in the next update 

[arius32]

5 hours ago, Starlord Kerman said:

I can't say I've ever played with those mods. I could take a look at compatibility, but no guarantees. I'm currently working on wing attachment method stuff.

if i may suggest, a part with your form factor that is similar to the feline rover life support module would be exactly what's needed.
 

- about the parts splitting, i took a look at the cfg files for your parts (i'm an amateur, i don't really know what i'm doing),
i noticed that the breaking force numbers were set to 50, while a lot of other parts from other mods had that number set much higher up to 9 times as much,
would that cause the splits i'm describing ? again i'm no modder, i just sometimes read the cfg.
 

5 hours ago, Starlord Kerman said:

To determine the mass of the parts and the fuel volumes I used this thread. 85% of the total volume is fuel, and the mass of the part is 1/8th the mass of the fuel. The triangular cross-section volume is much more than a cylindrical 2.5m cross-section so it makes sense the parts would weigh more (and hold more fuel), somewhere between a 2.5m cylinder and an mk3 part. There is though some variation to this rule for the crew holding parts, wings, and docking modules as the mass for such parts would be higher than that determined from their fuel capacity, and so there were some design decisions that had to be made. Is there a specific part I should check the mass on?

sorry, didn't include this in the last reply (too sleepy)
not a specific part, just the over all weight of the craft struck me as too heavy for it's size, i'll describe the plane i tired to build with your parts:
cockpit with docking port, extra crew, cargo small, 2 cargo large, fuel tank, and the tail tank (the one with 3 points) , 3 vector engines, and the wings.
very basic, i just felt 50t was a little too heavy for that. 

[oguz]

Omg now this is my favorite cockpit.. It even has in-built docking port.. ;-;

 

Spoiler

https://i.imgur.com/S9KzFWx.jpg

 

 

[linuxgurugamer]

On 1/15/2019 at 10:37 PM, Starlord Kerman said:

Change wings attachment method to make them more versatile/modular.

Just saying that I'm eagerly waiting for the new wings.  I'm looking forward to trying them out with the Mk2.5 Spaceplane Parts.

And in general, I can see an interesting mix of both types of shuttles. 

[Starlord Kerman]

On 2/5/2019 at 10:45 AM, linuxgurugamer said:

Just saying that I'm eagerly waiting for the new wings.

So, I have gotten the wings to mirror correctly, but I'm not sure how to best implement this in the mod. I'm planning on adding B9partswitch functionality to some of the existing parts and some new parts with the next update, so I was considering using this for the wings as well. However, it looks like the lift deflection coefficient can't be changed for different part variants using b9. My original plan was to give all the wings 2 types, one that would be the full set (left and right) like the wings currently are in this mod, then another variant of the same part (using b9) to make just a surface attachable left wing that can be mirrored. But since I can't change the lift deflection coefficient that plan isn't going to work out.

The best alternative I've thought of is to have 3 variants for each wing, a surface attachable mirror-able variant, then a left and a right node attach variant. The main problem with this would be that parts attached to the node-attached wings (think landing gear) would no longer mirror, so I'm not sure this would be an improvement overall. 

If you have any thoughts on this feel free to share. 

[linuxgurugamer]

Are you using this:

mirrorRefAxis = 0, 0, 1

if you want, send me a file with the wings, I'll take a look at them tomorrow morning and see if I can fix that for you

I'm not at home right now, so can't really do anything until tomorrow 

[Starlord Kerman]

Some MK2.5 compatibility.

 

[Fr8monkey]

Whoa...  

Edited February 20, 2019 by Fr8monkey

[linuxgurugamer]

On 2/20/2019 at 12:14 AM, Starlord Kerman said:

Some MK2.5 compatibility.

 

Nice.

How's the progress with the wings?

[GrandProtectorDark]

That looks pretty good

[Starlord Kerman]

On 3/3/2019 at 5:37 AM, linuxgurugamer said:

How's the progress with the wings?

My current plan for the wings is to use B9 part switch to switch the wings between node attach and surface attach. The wings mirror fine when surface attaching, however I still can not get them to mirror when node attaching.

As you can see in the gif, I have a dedicated part for the wings to mirror across. The part has nodes on each side and stack symmetry = 1. I have tried with the nodes facing out from the sides, and with the nodes both pointing towards the back, without success.

If anyone wants to take a look, I put all the files needed for the wing and the dedicated wing mount in a separate project on github. (B9 will have to be downloaded separately) The wing is new and will be in the next update.

https://github.com/StarlordKerman/SweptWing

Although the wings don't mirror, it is possible to get a right and left wing by using 'e' or 'q' to switch orientations.

[KiltedKerbal]

@Starlord Kerman - looks good. Does the file include anything for the Mk2.5 Compatability? Great work and looking forward to being able to mix and match some parts! 

[Starlord Kerman]

9 hours ago, KiltedKerbal said:

@Starlord Kerman - looks good. Does the file include anything for the Mk2.5 Compatability? Great work and looking forward to being able to mix and match some parts! 

Nope, just the wing parts, in case someone wants to attempt mirroring the wing themselves.

[linuxgurugamer]

1 hour ago, Starlord Kerman said:

Nope, just the wing parts, in case someone wants to attempt mirroring the wing themselves.

I'm puzzled.

I've downloaded it, and installed it without B9 (bear with me).

I went into the SPH, created a fuselage , then took the wing and tried to apply it in surface attach, mirror mode.

And it works.  Perfectly.I didn't need to use the wing attachment system.

I'll do some more testing later with B9

 

 

[Starlord Kerman]

1 hour ago, linuxgurugamer said:

And it works.  Perfectly.I didn't need to use the wing attachment system.

Yes, the mirroring works in surface attach mode. With the wing attachment system, I'm hoping to save the users some trouble so they don't have to drag the wings around and try to align them by eye. Instead, the node will align them perfectly.

12 hours ago, KiltedKerbal said:

Great work and looking forward to being able to mix and match some parts! 

I do have a bunch of parts that I was hoping to release along with the wings. If I can't figure out the wings I'll probably do an update with the other parts within a week. It's mostly adapters and some various engine mounts.

Spoiler

Mk3 Adapter

 

Edited March 8, 2019 by Starlord Kerman

[linuxgurugamer]

On 3/8/2019 at 6:46 PM, Starlord Kerman said:

Yes, the mirroring works in surface attach mode. With the wing attachment system, I'm hoping to save the users some trouble so they don't have to drag the wings around and try to align them by eye. Instead, the node will align them perfectly

Well, mirroring in surface attach mode does align them, so I assume you are trying to make it easy to add the wings to the Tri shuttle body

I'm not sure you can mirror with node attachment.  I looked at all the other wings from Squad and Airplane Plus, none of them have node attachment.

One thing I saw is that the orientation on the nodes on both the wing attachment part and the nodes on the wings/control surfaces are wrong.  Keep in mind that while the wing attachment part is designed for your wings, people are inventive and will want to use it for other stuff.

For the wing attachment part, you should use the following:

node_stack_top = 0.0, 0.0, -1.25, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 3
node_stack_bottom = 0.0, 0.0, -1.25, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 3
node_stack_finLeft = 1.7075, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0.0, 3
node_stack_finRight = -1.7075, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 0.0, 3
node_attach = 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0

The wing should have the following:

node_stack_top = -1.7075, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0.0, 3
node_stack_bottom = -2.9575, -3.5, -0.156, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 1
node_stack_bottom02 = -6.4742, -4.9473, -0.1624, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 1
node_attach = -1.7075, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0.0, 3

The SweptEngineFlap should be:

node_stack_top = 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 1
node_stack_bottom = -0.625, -1.08, -0.0523, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 3
node_stack_bottom02 = 0.625, -1.08, -0.0523, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 3
node_attach = 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0

and the SweptFlapB should be:

node_stack_top = 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 1
node_attach = 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0

I'm not sure what the bottom and bottom2 are in the SweptEngineFlap are for, the , so I didn't change them

Use the files I linked to in the other thread

Edited March 10, 2019 by linuxgurugamer

[Starlord Kerman]

Updated!

The latest update includes major changes and will break most existing crafts built with older versions of this mod. Please recover your crafts before updating.

Major Changes:

• B9 Part Switch has been added to increase part versatility without increasing part count.
• The wings can now surface attach and are mirror-able.
• The wings can still node attach similar to before, using a new part called "wing attachment system" which can be found in the Aero category.
  • The wings all start as 'left' wings, however when a wing is rotated using 'e' and 'q' the wing mirrors and becomes a 'right' wing.
  • When a 'left' and 'right' wing is attached via the nodes to the "wing attachment system", the game still treats them as mirrored. Landing gears, canards, etc, can still be mirrored across the wings.
• New expanded cargo bays.
  • The standard cargo bays can now part-switch into Beluga Cargo Bays, which are much larger, and can easily accommodate 2.5m parts.
• Adapters Added
  • Size 2 adapter added
  • Mk3 adapter added
    • fuel adapter and cargo adapter
  • Mk2.5 space plane adapter added.
    • tapered and un-tapered

On 1/16/2019 at 2:14 AM, Jesusthebird said:

Perhaps some adapters to mk2/3

Size 2 and Mk3 adapters have been added

On 1/16/2019 at 7:43 PM, GrandProtectorDark said:

I'd like to suggest to slightly enlarge the parts to be slighly above 2.5m. I'd be nicd3 if the cargo bays could fit whole 2.5m tanks instead of only almost fitting them.

Larger cargo bays have been added

 

On 1/18/2019 at 2:00 PM, GrandProtectorDark said:

Those wings would really be much more versatile if they attached like this

The wings now part-switch between node and surface attachment methods (and now mirror)

On 2/2/2019 at 7:03 AM, arius32 said:

seems like every time i try to launch (shuttle style) or takeoff (runway) the plane will split to pieces starting from the part connected to the wings

Planes no longer break up on take off and landing. The breaking force has been increased from 50 to 450

Edited March 19, 2019 by Starlord Kerman

[Rawenwarcrow]

20 hours ago, Starlord Kerman said:

Mk2 and Mk3 adapters have been added

I have 2 "size 2 adapter" and a Mk3 one, but no Mk2... Isn't it just a reading mistake? I always mix up those two sizes name... Or I have a problem with my installation 

BTW, great mod, I love it  

Edited March 18, 2019 by Rawenwarcrow

[Starlord Kerman]

8 hours ago, Rawenwarcrow said:

I have 2 "size 2 adapter" and a Mk3 one, but no Mk2

I think you're right, I meant size 2. I'll edit that.