[1.5.x~1.7.x] ProgressiveColonizationSystem - Life Support & Colonization for more fun in late game

[Nirahiel]

Having an issue (well i can see it as an advantage sometimes but it's still bugging me), my kerbals aren't eating snacks anymore. Yes, I know they don't eat snacks while on kerbin, and they'll happily work again when back on kerbin even if they're out of snacks. But here, they're not eating them while in space. I may have enabled infinite propellant and electricity at some point but it's been disabled since then and I don't see what else could cause this.

Help please.

 

EDIT : Aaaand the cupcake button is gone .. noticed that recently. Bad mod interaction ?

Edited March 12, 2021 by Nirahiel

[NermNermNerm]

On 3/12/2021 at 5:09 AM, Nirahiel said:

EDIT : Aaaand the cupcake button is gone .. noticed that recently. Bad mod interaction ?

Not eating and this button is gone?  Hm.  I think something has gone wrong in your install and it's not loading at all.

Debugging something like this is pretty near impossible - and if one mod has a problem like this, likely more do.  You might back up your KSP folder, wipe all your mods out and reinstall them all.

[rmaine]

On 3/13/2021 at 9:33 PM, NermNermNerm said:

Not eating and this button is gone?  Hm.  I think something has gone wrong in your install and it's not loading at all.

Debugging something like this is pretty near impossible - and if one mod has a problem like this, likely more do.  You might back up your KSP folder, wipe all your mods out and reinstall them all.

Aha. I had the same problem (which I first noticed in seeing that none of my parts had settings for tiers in the PAW).  After quite a lot of mucking around, I think I found it. I fiddled a lot with deleting and reinstalling stuff to no avail. Then I took a quick glance at the KSP.log. That's often too cryptic and full of cra^h^h^hstuff for me to figure much out, but this time I noticed right near the beginning a "poodle" (as the forum software likes to bowdlerize a term also used to refer to female dogs :-)) about PKS throwing an exception. Seemed to be related to being unable to find things in contract configurator. I'm not even using contract configurator. Hmm... I wonder... Added contract configurator and that seemed to  solve it. I'm guessing the newest version of PKS added a hard dependency on contract configurator, but that dependency didn't get added in CKAN. I suppose I ought to mention this in the CKAN forum, but I don't know how (or if it is even possible) to post a single message to both fora ( @HebaruSan   ?). Also, I probably ought to verify my guess with @NermNermNerm.

[NermNermNerm]

On 3/15/2021 at 1:36 PM, rmaine said:

the newest version of PKS added a hard dependency on contract configurator

You're probably right - I'll have a look at fixing that this weekend.  I thought I had arranged for it to not straight-up require it.

[rmaine]

@NermNermNerm I very recently started a new 1.12.2 career using PKS. Had been waiting for a version of EL that worked with 1.12.2; have one now. Anyway, 3 things I'll comment on - one new and 2 old.

The new thing is a bug in the base game that hits PKS. Fortunately, @nertea helpfully pointed me to a fix, which other users of PKS might also want to be aware of. They will want to install the community fix for the recovery cost bug in KSP 1.12.2. Without that fix, you can't get any credits for selling shinies. Not that selling shinies is horribly necessary, as contracts can provide plenty of funds. But without the ability to sell them, they seem to lack much point (though I do tend to produce them just to help hasten my production tier leveling anyway).

 

The old things. I've grumbled before about how annoying the rover stuff is. With Bon Voyage, it is at least tolerable, though I am careful to save before every Bon Voyage expedition because of the high frequency of explosions on arrival. (The stabilization feature of McJeb's rover autopilot seems to somewhat help that.) But there is one aspect that is extra annoying. Sometimes, I'll get a deposit that is essentially impossible to get at - for example halfway up a nearly vertical crater side where you can't get a rover to stay still even if you do get it there. (Parking brake can't be set if you can't manage to at least momentarily stop sliding first). There's then no way in PKS to abandon that deposit and go after a different one. If you exhaust a deposit, you can find a new one, but if you can't exhaust the first one because you can't get to it... well I hope you have a save from right before you located the deposit (I now always do) or you will forevermore be blocked from further development on that body. I really think there ought to be a way to abandon a deposit and search for a new one; even if there's a cost of some sort that would be ok. Forever blocking development isn't so ok.

One other old thing is to correct a misstatement I made earlier. At least now that I relook at it, I come to a different conclusion. I had commented about the orbital hydro labs as being pointless for missions shorter than about 1000 days. But I now can't reconstruct how I came up with that except by guessing at a significant omission in my calculation. I can get a figure something like that if I compare the weight of a hydro lab with the weight of the snacks I'd have to haul without the lab. But that omits the weight of the containers I'd need for those snacks. And those containers (from the Stockalike Station Parts Redux) are *HEAVY*. (Also the snacks get pretty expensive, but money doesn't tend to be much of an issue by the time I'm doing interplanetary missions anyway). So I guess the hydro labs look more useful after all (even before you tweaked their weight and production a while back).

[NermNermNerm]

Sorry to have missed this - I should get better notifications set up for this forum.  If there's something that really needs my attention, a GitHub issue would get noticed sooner.  (I monitor github more closely because, well, you know, job and all that;)

Definitely a bummer about the recovery cost bug.  Seems to me that money in career mode is really a mess - you got from absolutely desperate straights (because you can't even set a maneuver node) to ridiculously flush.  Selling shines also boosts your Prestige, but I still haven't figured out how that number really works, and the reward isn't well tuned at all.  I had thought that perhaps there should be missions to bring back shines, but unless you're talking someplace close, it can easily go well above and beyond the play-time-cost of any existing mission.  It's a shame since bringing back that load of shinies is one of the parts of the mod that I think is really fun.  (And kinda frustrating too, since KSP just doesn't seem to do well with heavy parts).

On 8/30/2021 at 1:50 PM, rmaine said:

Sometimes, I'll get a deposit that is essentially impossible to get at

I get your point about sometimes having to abandon deposits.  In my playthroughs, I never got quite that unlucky that I couldn't find a spot within the radius that was unserviceable.  But still, in a game where quicksave is a thing, it's dumb to have a mechanic that can actively encourage you to use it.

I wonder what kind of penalty would make sense?  Best I can think of is time.  Maybe a couple days between scans?  What do you think?

It was a while ago, but I thought your estimate for break-even was pretty close after I did the math myself.  I made a change a while ago (maybe last release?) that was intended to buff hydroponics somewhat.  As I recall, I came to the conclusion that parts like that probably will be pretty damn heavy when they come in real life.  So even with the change, it's still the case that you could maybe be more mass-efficient on a trip from Eve or Duna to Kerbin with pure snacks.  But if you look at the labor-curve for making snacks vs. fertilizer, I think you'll find that it's easier to produce fertilizer.  It's also pretty trivial to make rocket fuel and boost that up into orbit.  The net sum is that I still think you're more "efficient" by having a transit craft that has hydroponics than not, even when you're only at tier 3.

[rmaine]

19 hours ago, NermNermNerm said:

I get your point about sometimes having to abandon deposits.  In my playthroughs, I never got quite that unlucky that I couldn't find a spot within the radius that was unserviceable.  But still, in a game where quicksave is a thing, it's dumb to have a mechanic that can actively encourage you to use it.

I wonder what kind of penalty would make sense?  Best I can think of is time.  Maybe a couple days between scans?  What do you think?

That's a hard call. I hadn't really put much thought into the details. Time would make sense, but that would be a pretty trivial penalty. Trying to think of something that wouldn't be trivial. By the time it comes up, money is getting to be not much of an issue. The same with science; it's pretty easy to max out science before leaving Kerbin and its moons. And as you note, prestige doesn't seem to have much use at all (unless you are using a mod like strategia, which I recently tried out). Hmm. What would actually have some non-trivial cost? Needing to cart more complex parts up from Kerbin can be enough of a bother to be a noticeable penalty without being impossible.  I struggle to come up with a rationalization for that, though. Maybe require a higher level Kerbal of some sort to reset things?

[Altorvo]

Hey, I'm new to the KSP forums  

I was wondering if this mod had any support with RSS?

Currently noticing my snacks are being consumed 4x faster in RSS which would make sense (being 24hrs days instead of the stock 6hr days)

What are my options?
1. Change the configs to add 4x more snacks and fertiliser to parts and weigh 4x less?
2. I've seen 'KerbalTime' on  GitHub. Is there a way to utilise this to extend from a 6hr day to 24hrs?

Loving the mod otherwise!
Thanks in advance!

[NermNermNerm]

On 2/12/2022 at 4:11 AM, Altorvo said:

What are my options?
1. Change the configs to add 4x more snacks and fertiliser to parts and weigh 4x less?
2. I've seen 'KerbalTime' on  GitHub. Is there a way to utilise this to extend from a 6hr day to 24hrs?

The 6-hour day is, alas, hard-coded into the mod.  It's not hopeless to fix, if I knew an API to find out the day length.  Just reviewing the code I see that I created a class that's supposed to be all-things-time, but there are a few stragglers still just computing 6*60*60 around.

Since production is actually performed on a per-tick basis, rather than a per-day basis, then yeah, doing option 1 would work.

I'm not familiar with "KerbalTime" - a quick search on github didn't turn up any repo's for that (got a KerbalTimer hit, but that doesn't seem like it).

[Aelfhe1m]

3 hours ago, NermNermNerm said:

The 6-hour day is, alas, hard-coded into the mod.  It's not hopeless to fix, if I knew an API to find out the day length.  Just reviewing the code I see that I created a class that's supposed to be all-things-time, but there are a few stragglers still just computing 6*60*60 around.

Since production is actually performed on a per-tick basis, rather than a per-day basis, then yeah, doing option 1 would work.

I'm not familiar with "KerbalTime" - a quick search on github didn't turn up any repo's for that (got a KerbalTimer hit, but that doesn't seem like it).

The API you want is KSPUtil.dateTimeFormatter:

int secondsPerDay = KSPUtil.dateTimeFormatter.Day;

Should work with 6hr/24hr or any properly implemented custom day length (e.g. JNSQ's 12hr days)

[NermNermNerm]

I just put out 3.1.2 which has the time-clock fix that @Altorvo asked for and @Aelfhe1m told me how to implement.  I also took the feedback from @rmaine to allow for trying for a new resource node.  The new mechanic is that if you go back to the scanner after 3 days have passed and ask it to find loose crushins, it'll generate a new node rather than insisting you mine out the old one.

Hopefully I dotted all my I's & crossed all my T's in that release - it's been a while.

[rmaine]

10 hours ago, NermNermNerm said:

I just put out 3.1.2 which has the time-clock fix that @Altorvo asked for and @Aelfhe1m told me how to implement.  I also took the feedback from @rmaine to allow for trying for a new resource node.  The new mechanic is that if you go back to the scanner after 3 days have passed and ask it to find loose crushins, it'll generate a new node rather than insisting you mine out the old one.

Hopefully I dotted all my I's & crossed all my T's in that release - it's been a while.

Neat. I'd been away from KSP for a while until just yesterday, when I started a new career trying out the snacks mod. Hmm. That seems likely to be incompatible with progressive colonization. Debating whether to scrap that and restart. Ah. Think I'll play that one for a while, but then come back to progressive colonization. P.S. Looks like CKAN still has KSP 1.11.9 listed as the max version for progressive colonization. I know how to override that, but some other people don't.

 

[Altorvo]

On 4/18/2022 at 5:28 AM, NermNermNerm said:

I just put out 3.1.2 which has the time-clock fix that @Altorvo asked for and @Aelfhe1m told me how to implement.

Thanks @NermNermNerm, really appreciate your support on this. I can't tell you how excited I am to finish work and get on KSP  

On 4/14/2022 at 5:24 PM, NermNermNerm said:

I'm not familiar with "KerbalTime" - a quick search on github didn't turn up any repo's for that (got a KerbalTimer hit, but that doesn't seem like it).

Also, I found 'KerbalTime' here: 'ProgressiveColonizationSystem/src/ProgressiveColonizationSystem/KerbalTime.cs' - I'm not too familiar with GitHub, as I'm not a dev/config day-to-day, so I'm not too sure how useful this would be, but again I really appreciate your help!

[rmaine]

Started a new career using PKS a little while ago. Going along pretty well so far. Self-sufficient tier 4 bases on Mun, Minmus, Gilly, and Ike done. Duna has a tier 1 base, with a core for tier 2 in transit. Yes, I know I could skip tier 1 by now, but I find it handy to make some tier 1 parts anyway just to cut down on my consumption of snacks and complex parts while waiting for the tier 2 core to arrive. First Dres base is in Kerbin orbit awaiting a good transit window. I've avoided letting my Kerbals starve on long-duration missions for this playthrough. Just seems too much like a cheat to intentionally starve them during the trip and then pep them up with a snack when I want them to work. I've given up on Eve; haven't even tried it this playthrough as I have never in any playthrough managed to get anything from Eve's surface to orbit, which is a necessary step for the required round trip. Getting down to the surface is relatively easy enough, as the thick atmosphere helps a lot with that. And if I could lift even a tiny probe core to orbit, I could grab it and take it home with another vehicle. I've seen stuff on how to launch from Eve, but most of it seems to be from some old game version before Eve was modified in ways that make it harder. One more recent one made extensive use of the breaking ground DLC, which I don't have and am not particularly inclined to get.

Thought I'd comment a little on how I'm putting it together to work, mostly in terms of related mods. As you note, Extraplanetary Launchpads,  Kerbal Planetary Base systems, SSPER, and B9 part switch are all but required. To keep bases and rovers from sliding and jumping around, I find Parking Brake invaluable (though I use a slightly old version because a "feature" of the latest versions completely breaks it for me - namely the automatic brake release when in flight, which regularly triggers on scene load transients and thus pretty much defeats the whole purpose). Even with Parking Brake, I am still finding my Gilly base wobbly enough that pieces break off on scene load unless I used the "unbreakable joints" cheat. It doesn't really seem like a cheat when it is to work around a game physics bug. But that cheat is a bit annoying in that you seem to have to reapply it every time you start the game, so I looked for another workaround. So far, Kerbal Joint Reinforcement Next seems to be working adequately for me. I recall having problems with one of the several joint reinforcement mods in the past, but maybe it was one of the other variants or maybe it got improved (or maybe I've just been lucky so far this playthrough).

The rover stuff takes the most fiddling. Thanks for the option to redo stuff location surveys, by the way, though I've managed to avoid needing that so far this playthrough; came close to needing it one time. Bon Voyage is a huge help with the rover missions, though it's finicky enough that a quicksave before every Bon Voyage trip seems wise. I also find the rover autopilot stabilization option in MechJeb all but required. Oh, and Waypoint Manager to be able to see the darn stuff locations.

I find that Strategia fits pretty well witk PKS, though granted, it fits well with lots of things in terms of making the admin building worth even paying attention to. And TRP-Hire because without it, hiring costs rapidly grow out of hand when building multiple bases all around the system.

No real new problems to report at the moment. Just relating experience, and feeling chatty I guess. Thanks again for the mod. Still my favorite life support mod.

[rmaine]

A problem I've occasionally seen before, but this time I captured a log file. The PKS window occasionally disappears when I try to open the progress window. Seems like it has always been when there isn't yet any progress made yet and also none being made. I initially thought something like a 0/0 in calculating the percentage done, but in the log file I see what looks like an infinite loop of exceptions referring to get_TierBeingResearched and EligibleToSkipTier1. I'm guessing that's the data you need, but I'll link the log files just in case. This is my first base in this particular playthrough and it is right after I added the first rocket parts factory, which doesn't yet have enough mechanics to run it (one is about to walk over from a nearby ship). To make these logs, I started the game, used the stock alarm clock to switch to the base in question (mun base 0) as I had available a recent alarm for finishing construction of the rocket parts factory, clicked on the cupcake icon, and then clicked on the progress tab.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/n6ongxpba1phbtg/Player.log?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b7qks45qykoh4lp/KSP.log?dl=0

Easy enough to work around, as the problem goes away once I start making some actual progress to report in the tab (ata least that's what I recall from when I saw this before; yet to check that in this playthrough, as I stopped to get these logs).

[ssd21345]

you might want to whitelist for restock user, just write a txt file with Squad/Parts/Resources/miniISRU/ inside then change it to a .restockwhitelist file

[Foxxen]

Hi! I wanted to try this mod, but when installing it, the loading get stuck on this : https://prnt.sc/uqoWVOgFv0kV
I've waited for like 20 minutes, but no progress. And I see nothing particular in the KSP.log. Here are the last lines (alt + f4 the game) :

Spoiler

[LOG 22:23:51.069] PartLoader: Compiling Part 'PlanetaryBaseInc/BaseSystem/Parts/Utility/Greenhouse/Greenhouse_g/KKAOSS_Greenhouse_g'
[ERR 22:23:51.073] [KSPCommunityFixes] Tried to read value `tags = cck-lifesupport cck-pks` for field tags, index was 1 but only 1 [Persistent] attributes on that field on host object of type AvailablePart.
This is probably because the value was specified twice in the config. Making that assumption and clamping.

[EXC 22:23:51.252] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
    ProgressiveColonizationSystem.PksCrewRequirement.DescribeKerbalsWithEffect (System.String experienceEffect, ProgressiveColonizationSystem.TechTier tier) (at <b41cd30c17e6462d8090e3f1b312e071>:0)
    ProgressiveColonizationSystem.PksCrewRequirement.GetInfo () (at <b41cd30c17e6462d8090e3f1b312e071>:0)
    PartLoader.CompilePartInfo (AvailablePart newPartInfo, Part part) (at <39c0323fb6b449a4aaf3465c00ed3c8d>:0)
    PartLoader+<CompileParts>d__56.MoveNext () (at <39c0323fb6b449a4aaf3465c00ed3c8d>:0)
    UnityEngine.SetupCoroutine.InvokeMoveNext (System.Collections.IEnumerator enumerator, System.IntPtr returnValueAddress) (at <12e76cd50cc64cf19e759e981cb725af>:0)
    UnityEngine.DebugLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object)
    ModuleManager.UnityLogHandle.InterceptLogHandler:LogException(Exception, Object)
    UnityEngine.Debug:CallOverridenDebugHandler(Exception, Object)

I've tried on KSP with other mods, and with an fresh install with just this mod and it's dependencies (installed with CKAN or not), but nothing to do. I'm on the last KSP version

And there is nothing more. If there is other logs that I haven't seen, or other info you need, I'll be pleased to send them

Thank in advance and have a great day

EDIT : Looks like the problem start when installing the ToolbarController mod. I've tried to install one by one all dependencies, and it's the only one the game is not loading. I've tried to rollback mods versions, but nothing more, the game is stuck on loading

Edited October 14, 2022 by Foxxen
Added details

[OrbitalManeuvers]

On 10/12/2022 at 4:30 PM, Foxxen said:

EDIT : Looks like the problem start when installing the ToolbarController mod.

Did you also install ClickThroughBlocker? Also, the thing about posting a snippet of your log is that it excludes a ton of useful information in the rest of the log. It's usually much better to just post your entire log somewhere and leave a link to the shared file. The top portion has lots of install info - like whether or not you installed clickthroughblocker

[Foxxen]

On 10/15/2022 at 2:18 PM, OrbitalManeuvers said:

Did you also install ClickThroughBlocker? Also, the thing about posting a snippet of your log is that it excludes a ton of useful information in the rest of the log. It's usually much better to just post your entire log somewhere and leave a link to the shared file. The top portion has lots of install info - like whether or not you installed clickthroughblocker

Hi, yes I have all dependencies mods (and their dependencies) installed with the mod. For now I'm trying only with this mod, and I will see after for my normal modded save

Okay, it's the first time posting here for a mod problem. Here is a link to the KSP.log and here to Player.log
I'm using CKAN here to try more rapidly

Thanks for the info

Have a great day

Edited October 24, 2022 by Foxxen

[OrbitalManeuvers]

4 hours ago, Foxxen said:

Here is a link to the full log

Perfect, this will help if/when the author or someone more knowledgeable about this mod than me comes along. You don't have any obvious install errors, or at least none of the ones I know how to spot! 

[Foxxen]

I've asked to some people who use this mod, but they do not have any problem. So will wait and see, but thanks for the info on the full log

[pand1024]

I'm back and not finding any information on how the trainees work. From what I can best guess,  the only thing that affects how fast Kerbals train is their level stupidity?

Edited October 26, 2022 by pand1024

[pand1024]

I'm trying to make this mod work with Restock but I'm having issues with Orbital Scanning and Stuff Spotter. I've added the following file to whitelist needed stock models:
Kerbal Space Program\GameData\ProgressiveColonizationSystem\PKS.restockwhitelist

Squad/Parts/Resources/miniISRU/
Squad/Parts/Resources/MiniDrill/
Squad/Parts/Resources/RadialDrill/
Squad/Parts/Misc/AsteroidDay/

Does it still use the Sentinel Telescope Model? Where is it supposed to be in the tech tree. All I have access to right now is the tier 0-1 orbital scanner and I don't see another part for the later tiers, anywhere.

[pand1024]

My best guess that the screenshot in the wiki is just old? Is it just the three parts that use stock models? Anything else I'm missing?

[NermNermNerm]

On 11/24/2022 at 12:25 PM, pand1024 said:

My best guess that the screenshot in the wiki is just old? Is it just the three parts that use stock models? Anything else I'm missing?

The fertilizer, shinies, and rocket parts factories all use the stock ISRU model.  The "crush-ins scrounger" (the one for rovers) uses the small stock drill.  The "stuff scrounger" comes in two models - one that's the stock radial drill and one that repurposes a K&K drill part.  The 2 scanner parts (one 1.25 and one 2.5m) are entirely from the mod and the picture on the wiki is, indeed, out of date, as it used to use the asteroid scanner model back in the day).  Also, there are 3 snacks-containers, one radial attached, one 1.25m and one 2.5m. 

And yes, stupidity is the only thing that affects training time.