[1.12.x] NOT RO - Kerbal Construction Time - Unrapid Planned Assembly

[SpacedInvader]

3 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Ok, the changes were significant enough to make me want a beta, here:

1.4.6.2-beta

• Optimized the stock toolbar button texture setting (for the flashing of the button)
• Removed log spam: UpdateTechlistIconColor
• Added whitelist of fuels for the "Fill Tanks" & "Fill Tanks and Launch"
• Moved initialization of static GUI stuff into the loader
• Fixed memory leak and cause of stuttering in the editor

The whitelist is set up for stock fuels, it's in the file FuelResources.cfg.  Stock fuels which will be refilled are:

• LiquidFuel
• Oxidizer
• XenonGas
• MonoPropellant
• SolidFuel
   

There is also a config for RealFuels, which is untested.   

  Hide contents

• AK20
• AK27
• Aerozine50
• Aniline
• AvGas
• ClF3
• ClF5
• Diborane
• Ethane
• Ethanol
• Ethanol75
• Ethanol90
• Ethylene
• Furfuryl
• HTP
• Hydyne
• IRFNA-III
• IRFNA-IV
• IWFNA
• Kerosene
• LqdAmmonia
• LqdFluorine
• LqdHydrogen
• LqdMethane
• LqdOxygen
• MMH
• MON10
• MON3
• Methanol
• N2F4
• NTO
• NitrousOxide
• OF2
• Pentaborane
• Syntin
• Tonka250
• Tonka500
• UDMH
• UH25
   

https://github.com/linuxgurugamer/KCT/releases/tag/1.4.6.2-beta

I would appreciate any and all feedback before releasing this

Can confirm this update did indeed reign in the memory issues, but I am still getting the KCT-induced increased stuttering which goes away upon disabling the mod in settings. Will take me some time in a career save to test the Real Fuels config, but I'm actually wondering what this feature is supposed to do. Up until I saw it here, I don't think it ever occurred to me to save a craft or schedule it for construction without all the appropriate tanks filled. Did something change regarding this in the time since I last played?

[linuxgurugamer]

1 minute ago, SpacedInvader said:

Can confirm this update did indeed reign in the memory issues, but I am still getting the KCT-induced increased stuttering which goes away upon disabling the mod in settings. Will take me some time in a career save to test the Real Fuels config, but I'm actually wondering what this feature is supposed to do. Up until I saw it here, I don't think it ever occurred to me to save a craft or schedule it for construction without all the appropriate tanks filled. Did something change regarding this in the time since I last played?

There was a new feature added.  When you recover a vessel using KCT, the tanks can be empty.  If you edit the vessel, there will be a button to fill the tanks.  Or, you can use the Fill tanks and launch from the menu.

What are your computer specs?

[SpacedInvader]

1 minute ago, linuxgurugamer said:

There was a new feature added.  When you recover a vessel using KCT, the tanks can be empty.  If you edit the vessel, there will be a button to fill the tanks.  Or, you can use the Fill tanks and launch from the menu.

What are your computer specs?

Win 7 x64
i7-4770K @ 3.5GHz
32GB DDR3 @1600MHz
KSP is installed on a 500GB Samsung 840 EVO SSD

On the topic of the stutters, the more I think about it, the more it seems like a repeating algorithm that's being run at 1-second intervals. The fact that it gets increasingly worse with the size of the install has me thinking that its something to do with part checking as well. Does KCT have something along these lines? Maybe something related to the build point calculations?

[linuxgurugamer]

3 minutes ago, SpacedInvader said:

On the topic of the stutters, the more I think about it, the more it seems like a repeating algorithm that's being run at 1-second intervals. The fact that it gets increasingly worse with the size of the install has me thinking that its something to do with part checking as well. Does KCT have something along these lines? Maybe something related to the build point calculations?

It might.  I saw some stutters in my test install which were fixed by the current beta.  But my test install doesn't have that many parts mods;  I'll add a few big ones and see what happens

[linuxgurugamer]

12 minutes ago, SpacedInvader said:

Win 7 x64
i7-4770K @ 3.5GHz
32GB DDR3 @1600MHz
KSP is installed on a 500GB Samsung 840 EVO SSD

On the topic of the stutters, the more I think about it, the more it seems like a repeating algorithm that's being run at 1-second intervals. The fact that it gets increasingly worse with the size of the install has me thinking that its something to do with part checking as well. Does KCT have something along these lines? Maybe something related to the build point calculations

Do the stutters happen when a vessel is in the editor, or if it is empty?

Also, please describe the stutters as best you can.

If you could do a video showing the stutters, that would be very helpful

[SpacedInvader]

26 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Do the stutters happen when a vessel is in the editor, or if it is empty?

Also, please describe the stutters as best you can.

If you could do a video showing the stutters, that would be very helpful

Video

Sorry about the size, it probably didn't need to be high quality, but I partly didn't think to reduce it and partly realized after the fact that higher quality meant you can see that the kerbals are stuttering as they walk in the beginning. As you can see, it happens with or without a part and disabling KCT reduces the effect drastically. The second part is actually pretty similar to what I get now on a minimal install, both with and without the new beta active.

EDIT: Also, for reference, I've got about 3k parts in my main install.

Edited March 31, 2019 by SpacedInvader

[vardicd]

12 hours ago, aat said:

Other quality of life improvements that the mod can benefit:

- Main KCT panel staying active after scene change (as of now, it disappears when returning to the KSC view, so each time we need to click on the icon again)

 

12 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

I'm pretty sure it does, at least it does in my testing from the editor to the space center, also from the tracking station back to the spacecenter.  I do see an issue when returning from the Admin, Astronaut Complex and R&D

@linuxgurugamer I use the toolbar mod for all my KCT interactions, {not the stock toolbar [Mentioned for clarity]} and I can confirm that in all my games and tests, I've never had the KCT window stay open after any scene change. It's been a while, but I do seem to remember the last version that I used from when the mod was magico's did sometimes stay open on scene changes, but was hit and miss, and not very reliable. It's never really bothered me enough to say anything, I just sort of assumed it was something that never occurred to magico, and now you to add in as a quality of life feature.

11 minutes ago, SpacedInvader said:

Video

Sorry about the size, it probably didn't need to be high quality, but I partly didn't think to reduce it and partly realized after the fact that higher quality meant you can see that the kerbals are stuttering as they walk in the beginning. As you can see, it happens with or without a part and disabling KCT reduces the effect drastically. The second part is actually pretty similar to what I get now on a minimal install, both with and without the new beta active.

EDIT: Also, for reference, I've got about 3k parts in my main install.

Huh, never realized it, but after seeing the before and after in that video, I have the same issue. I just thought it was KSP being KSP, but then I haven't played KSP without KCT since I first found the mod, back shortly after it was released by magico. I've never turned the mod off in one of my games, or played without it to notice the stuttering going away.

[SpacedInvader]

20 minutes ago, vardicd said:

 

@linuxgurugamer I use the toolbar mod for all my KCT interactions, {not the stock toolbar [Mentioned for clarity]} and I can confirm that in all my games and tests, I've never had the KCT window stay open after any scene change. It's been a while, but I do seem to remember the last version that I used from when the mod was magico's did sometimes stay open on scene changes, but was hit and miss, and not very reliable. It's never really bothered me enough to say anything, I just sort of assumed it was something that never occurred to magico, and now you to add in as a quality of life feature.

Huh, never realized it, but after seeing the before and after in that video, I have the same issue. I just thought it was KSP being KSP, but then I haven't played KSP without KCT since I first found the mod, back shortly after it was released by magico. I've never turned the mod off in one of my games, or played without it to notice the stuttering going away.

I'm basically the same way, and really the only reason it was originally so noticeable for me is because I also keep a sandbox save with KCT and other immersion mods like RT disabled for testing purposes. That said, I think KSP has developed the underlying stutter in the time since I last played as I can never remember it being this bad in the past.

[vardicd]

40 minutes ago, SpacedInvader said:

I'm basically the same way, and really the only reason it was originally so noticeable for me is because I also keep a sandbox save with KCT and other immersion mods like RT disabled for testing purposes. That said, I think KSP has developed the underlying stutter in the time since I last played as I can never remember it being this bad in the past.

It's possible, I do however note that my stutter isn't nearly as apparent as yours seems to be, but that maybe down to my lack of part mods, versus yours I see in your previous post that you've got 3k parts in your install, and I'm only using a few mods that add parts. my biggest part adders are angel's buffalo, heisenburg, and flying saucer mods. Beyond that most of my mods only affect game mechanics, or add very few parts of their own in.

[SpacedInvader]

53 minutes ago, vardicd said:

It's possible, I do however note that my stutter isn't nearly as apparent as yours seems to be, but that maybe down to my lack of part mods, versus yours I see in your previous post that you've got 3k parts in your install, and I'm only using a few mods that add parts. my biggest part adders are angel's buffalo, heisenburg, and flying saucer mods. Beyond that most of my mods only affect game mechanics, or add very few parts of their own in.

That's why I'm thinking this is related to something in the way that KCT handles parts. The degree of stutter seems directly proportional to the number of parts installed, but only while KCT is active.

Edited March 31, 2019 by SpacedInvader

[linuxgurugamer]

6 hours ago, SpacedInvader said:

Sorry about the size, it probably didn't need to be high quality, but I partly didn't think to reduce it and partly realized after the fact that higher quality meant you can see that the kerbals are stuttering as they walk in the beginning. As you can see, it happens with or without a part and disabling KCT reduces the effect drastically. The second part is actually pretty similar to what I get now on a minimal install, both with and without the new beta active.

EDIT: Also, for reference, I've got about 3k parts in my main install.

Ok, that's great, in that I can see the stuttering.

But how the heck do you a have more than 3000 parts? I added a number of part-heavy mods, and I'm still only up to about1600

[SpacedInvader]

35 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Ok, that's great, in that I can see the stuttering.

But how the heck do you a have more than 3000 parts? I added a number of part-heavy mods, and I'm still only up to about1600

My install is quite extensive:

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UnKerballed Start (UnKerballedStart 1.0.4)
USI Asteroid Recycling Technologies (USI-ART 1:1.1.0.0)
USI Core (USI-Core 1.1.0.0)
USI Exploration Pack (USI-EXP 1.1.0.0)
USI Freight Transport Technologies (USI-FTT 1.1.0.0)
USI Life Support (USI-LS 1.1.0.0)
USI Tools (USITools 1.1.0.0)
Vessel Viewer Continued (VesselView 2:0.8.7.2)
VesselView-UI-RasterPropMonitor (VesselView-UI-RasterPropMonitor 1:0.8.7.2)
Waypoint Manager (WaypointManager 2.7.5)

I could probably prune out at least 25% due to redundancies / tanks, but I've found in the past that sometimes having more options leads to better designs.

EDIT: I should also mention that its 3k parts after I've already removed several parts packs I opted not to use since they are replica style mods (e.g. FASA) and I'd prefer to make my own designs. Originally it was up around 4500 parts...

EDIT 2: That list is missing a few mods since its missing all of Angel-125's mods (not on CKAN) as well as Far Future Technology by Nertea.

Edited March 31, 2019 by SpacedInvader

[linuxgurugamer]

Well, I got my part count (btw, how do you count your parts) upto a bit over 1800 (I count looking for the word PART in all cfg files which doesn't have a leading @).  I got into the editor with the continuous rotation, and still don't see the stutter I saw in your video, now adding in about 30 more mods to get the count up.  I do realize that my system is significantly faster than yours, so that's probably a factor.

Just finished the count, I now have 3718 parts installed.  This is going to be painful (loading KSP) :-)

I'm going to have to blow away this entire install when done, there is just too much to remove now

[linuxgurugamer]

Still no stutter on my main system, now coping to an older system to test.

[SpacedInvader]

21 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Well, I got my part count (btw, how do you count your parts) upto a bit over 1800 (I count looking for the word PART in all cfg files which doesn't have a leading @).  I got into the editor with the continuous rotation, and still don't see the stutter I saw in your video, now adding in about 30 more mods to get the count up.  I do realize that my system is significantly faster than yours, so that's probably a factor.

Just finished the count, I now have 3718 parts installed.  This is going to be painful (loading KSP) :-)

I'm going to have to blow away this entire install when done, there is just too much to remove now

LOL, welcome to my world... Its the only thing I've ever hated about running the kind of installs I run, having to wait 10-20 minutes every time I need to restart the game and managing all those folders and patches is a headache. But then I get into the game and am able to build basically whatever I want with all sorts of bells and whistles and I'm happy again.

As for getting a part count, I usually use the debug console's database section. I can't say for sure just how accurate that is, but it seems like a safe assumption that its giving the total discrete part count.

2 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Still no stutter on my main system, now coping to an older system to test.

Sigh... I need to upgrade the guts of my system. There was a time when the 4770K was one of the best CPUs  on the market. Now its mid-range at best.

One thing that's been tickling at the back of my mind is that I can't rule out the possibility that its a mod interaction with KCT just being the most visible variable in this case. It might be worthwhile for all of us who are experiencing the issue to post our mod list so we can maybe try to rule that out through an analysis of mods we have in common.

[siimav]

Just did the same VAB test on my full RSS/RO/RP-1 install and didn't have any stutter at all.

[linuxgurugamer]

Just finished loading on my older system (i4790K, 32 gig).  Took 35 minutes, while on my current system was only 5-10 minutes

10 hours ago, SpacedInvader said:

Win 7 x64
i7-4770K @ 3.5GHz
32GB DDR3 @1600MHz
KSP is installed on a 500GB Samsung 840 EVO SSD

On the topic of the stutters, the more I think about it, the more it seems like a repeating algorithm that's being run at 1-second intervals. The fact that it gets increasingly worse with the size of the install has me thinking that its something to do with part checking as well. Does KCT have something along these lines? Maybe something related to the build point calculations?

Video board?  Make, model, and if you know, how much memory is on it.

Testing on my older system, with a GTX970, 4 gig onboard memory, and I still don't have a stutter

1 hour ago, SpacedInvader said:

As for getting a part count, I usually use the debug console's database section. I can't say for sure just how accurate that is, but it seems like a safe assumption that its giving the total discrete part count.

You are probably correct in that.  Using that, my install now has 3644 parts

1 hour ago, SpacedInvader said:

One thing that's been tickling at the back of my mind is that I can't rule out the possibility that its a mod interaction with KCT just being the most visible variable in this case. It might be worthwhile for all of us who are experiencing the issue to post our mod list so we can maybe try to rule that out through an analysis of mods we have in common.

Not sure if you are willing to do this, but if you zip up your entire GameData directory, without the Squad directories, and get that to me, I'll be able to test exactly what you are testing.

[linuxgurugamer]

2 hours ago, siimav said:

Just did the same VAB test on my full RSS/RO/RP-1 install and didn't have any stutter at all.

Could you post your system specs and mod  list?

[siimav]

1 hour ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Could you post your system specs and mod  list?

I'm probably not the best example for diagnosing this issue because I'm on KSP 1.3.1 and using the RO fork of KCT. Anyway's my specs are [email protected]/16G ram/GTX1660Ti. 

My guess is that the people who reported that issue, have some kind of mod in their list that periodically marks the vessel as dirty and causes all other mods to recalculate their data.

[linuxgurugamer]

13 hours ago, SpacedInvader said:

Can confirm this update did indeed reign in the memory issues, but I am still getting the KCT-induced increased stuttering which goes away upon disabling the mod in settings. Will take me some time in a career save to test the Real Fuels config, but I'm actually wondering what this feature is supposed to do. Up until I saw it here, I don't think it ever occurred to me to save a craft or schedule it for construction without all the appropriate tanks filled. Did something change regarding this in the time since I last played?

One more question:  How many vessels were in the build queue, and how big were each of them?

On a side note related to performance, I see a lot of "foreach" statements (about 200), and, while each one is not too significant, it adds up.  So over time, I'll be replacing the "foreach (var s in list)" statements with a more efficient "for (int i = list.Count - 1; i >= 0; i--){ var s = list;"

[SpacedInvader]

8 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

Just finished loading on my older system (i4790K, 32 gig).  Took 35 minutes, while on my current system was only 5-10 minutes

Video board?  Make, model, and if you know, how much memory is on it.

Testing on my older system, with a GTX970, 4 gig onboard memory, and I still don't have a stutter

Not sure if you are willing to do this, but if you zip up your entire GameData directory, without the Squad directories, and get that to me, I'll be able to test exactly what you are testing.

I've got a GTX960 w/ 4GB, so comparable to yours. Considering the fact that you've managed to pump up your part count to something like mine on a computer that seems slower than mine (my load time is ~15 mins), I think I'm going to have to try to get my GameData folder into your hands. I am also going to try attempting to remove all the mods and reintroduce them in sections in the hopes that a conflict can be found, though I'm not sure how well this will work since it still seems that the stutters are proportional to part count, so losing the stutter while removing the part mods could either be the result of losing the part mods or losing the conflict mod.

4 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

One more question:  How many vessels were in the build queue, and how big were each of them?

On a side note related to performance, I see a lot of "foreach" statements (about 200), and, while each one is not too significant, it adds up.  So over time, I'll be replacing the "foreach (var s in list)" statements with a more efficient "for (int i = list.Count - 1; i >= 0; i--){ var s = list;"

My test case would have zero vessels in the build queue. Essentially I just loaded the game, started a new career mode game, clicked through the relevant startup settings (KCT, State Funding, RT, etc), jumped into  the VAB, and recorded the video. As for the "foreach" statements, replacing them is definitely going to be for the best, but I don't think that's the cause of the stutters some of us are seeing, at least not on their own, since you'd have seen them as well in one of your tests.

Anyway, I'm curretly waiting for the GameData folder to compress into an archive and then I expect it to take some time to upload to my drive on my poor upstream connection, so I'll PM you the link when I've got it sorted.

I would still like to get the mod list from @vardicd and anyone else who is also experiencing the stutters. If it is a mod conflict / interaction of some sort (which it seems to be), that would at least allow us to likely rule out any mods that aren't common to all of us.

[vardicd]

1 hour ago, SpacedInvader said:

I would still like to get the mod list from @vardicd and anyone else who is also experiencing the stutters. If it is a mod conflict / interaction of some sort (which it seems to be), that would at least allow us to likely rule out any mods that aren't common to all of us.

[SpacedInvader]

1 hour ago, vardicd said:

Great, that will give me something to compare things against, thanks.

@linuxgurugamer I'm making slow progress in identifying the components of this problem. Originally I'd pulled all non-part mods based on the working assumption that part mods simply exacerbated the issue. This, however did not correct the problem and so I started trimming out part mods in small groups to try to narrow down the source, but had little luck. I noticed that one mod, the MK2 Stockalike Expansion, was throwing quite a few warnings and on a hunch I pulled that one, which immediately cleared up the issue on the reduced install. Unfortunately, upon reintroducing the rest of the mods back into the mix, the problem once again appeared, even without that mod installed. Taking a cue from that mod, I attempted to rectify all remaining warnings thrown by other mods and try again, but that also did not resolve the issue. Currently I've reinstalled the MK2 Stockalike Expansion as its clear there is something about this mod that is causing the stuttering and if I can identify what is special about it, perhaps I can find similarities in other installed mods that would also cause the same result.

On another note, I've finally finished uploading the GameData archive and I'll be PMing you a link after I submit this reply. I'm hoping that you'll be able to make a better assessment of the possible causes of this based on the information I was able to establish about the aforementioned mod being one of the sources.

Edited April 1, 2019 by SpacedInvader

[linuxgurugamer]

@SpacedInvader

Well, the good news is that your file downloaded without a problem and I have it working.

The bad new is that I am not getting any stutters at all.

Were you aware that MM found an error in one of the files, so it has to rebuild the entire cache each time

So far I've been testing with the stock graphics.  Which graphics setting are you using to start up KSP (dx11 or opengl)?

[vardicd]

On ‎3‎/‎30‎/‎2019 at 10:57 PM, SpacedInvader said:

Win 7 x64
i7-4770K @ 3.5GHz
32GB DDR3 @1600MHz
KSP is installed on a 500GB Samsung 840 EVO SSD

On the topic of the stutters, the more I think about it, the more it seems like a repeating algorithm that's being run at 1-second intervals. The fact that it gets increasingly worse with the size of the install has me thinking that its something to do with part checking as well. Does KCT have something along these lines? Maybe something related to the build point calculations?

45 minutes ago, linuxgurugamer said:

@SpacedInvader

Well, the good news is that your file downloaded without a problem and I have it working.

The bad new is that I am not getting any stutters at all.

Were you aware that MM found an error in one of the files, so it has to rebuild the entire cache each time

So far I've been testing with the stock graphics.  Which graphics setting are you using to start up KSP (dx11 or opengl)?

My specs are win 7 x64

i7 2600 @ 3.40GHZ

24 GB dual channel ddr3 @665mz

4095MB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 Ti (EVGA)

KSP installed on 931GB Western Digital SSD

Our specs are a bit different, but not by much. Since we're both seeing it, though myself at a much lesser noticeable level, and you're not with his game files, I'm beginning to wonder if maybe this is a hardware issue/limitation that's exacerbated by our modded KSP installs? You'd probably know more about that than me though?