Dumpling range challenge

[Pds314]

Due to recent oversights in acquiring fuel after Jeb decided we needed some Orange tanks on the Mün within a day, the KSC has decided it must be rationed and your projects have been given only a single Dumpling worth.

Get as from from the KSC as possible using just a single Dumpling.

Rules:

1. You may use a single R-4 Dumpling as fuel. No starting with monopropellant or Xenon. Discharge all electricity storage devices.

2. You may use ore as Ballast if you decide you need it for some reason. But your craft may not contain a drill or convert-o-tron. This isn't an ISRU challenge.

3. No RTGs or solar panels may be used to generate power. Fuel cells are fine but must start with no electricity.

4. Decouplers are fine but don't abuse them. Same goes for ladders and control surface torque and any other method of summoning the Kraken to trade your immortal soul for propulsion.

5. Kerbal parachutes are fine. Kerbal jetpacks are not. Walking is okay if it isn't a propulsion method.

6. You may remove any amount of Liquid Fuel or Oxidizer from the Dumpling.

7. Plant a flag or craft at KSC beforehand so we know how far you got.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Pds314

[vyznev]

Does the craft need to carry a Kerbal, or is an unmanned drone / rover acceptable?

[Fraston]

42 minutes ago, vyznev said:

Does the craft need to carry a Kerbal, or is an unmanned drone / rover acceptable?

Unmanned is fine, I believe.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Fraston

[Flying dutchman]

Then there should be two categories. I'm currently working on a manned bald design

Edited May 2, 2019 by Flying dutchman

[vyznev]

Well, just to set a baseline, here's my design. It's powered by a Juno jet engine, carries one kerbal and reached a ground distance of 193.7 km on my second test flight so far.

 

Spoiler

 

 

More screenshots: https://imgur.com/a/9Y5b8de

(Not posting the craft file yet, since I'll probably tweak this design further.)

 

[Flying dutchman]

I made it 500 km unmanned but i had to leave 0.5 electric charge in the probe core so that i could start the engine. if that still qualifies i will submit my entry.

[The Aziz]

I clicked on this thread thinking that you meant literal dumplings

Sorry.

[vyznev]

56 minutes ago, Flying dutchman said:

I made it 500 km unmanned but i had to leave 0.5 electric charge in the probe core so that i could start the engine. if that still qualifies i will submit my entry.

If not, I guess you could get around that by having a kerbal in a pod / chair that you stage off after starting the engine. Just to pull the starter cord, you know.  

[Pds314]

11 hours ago, Flying dutchman said:

I made it 500 km unmanned but i had to leave 0.5 electric charge in the probe core so that i could start the engine. if that still qualifies i will submit my entry.

Yeah that shouldn't be an issue. 0.5 ec is basically irrelevant.

Edited May 3, 2019 by Pds314

[Tyr Anasazi]

Can we use electric propellers?

[Flying dutchman]

8 minutes ago, Tyr Anasazi said:

Can we use electric propellers?

As long as you use a fuel cell that uses only the fuel in the dumpling i don't see why not?

[Rocket In My Pocket]

I don't see any rule about starting way up on a launch clamp?

Which would easily let you go way further, prolly further with no fuel just gliding, than someone could do powered from the ground with the fuel.

Should definitely be a rule about a max starting height.

Edited May 3, 2019 by Rocket In My Pocket

[vyznev]

44 minutes ago, Rocket In My Pocket said:

I don't see any rule about starting way up on a launch clamp?

Which would easily let you go way further, prolly further with no fuel just gliding, than someone could do powered from the ground with the fuel.

Should definitely be a rule about a max starting height.

Unless you're using silly tricks to build a 10 km tall launch clamp or something, I doubt it makes any significant difference. We're talking about flight distances of 200–500 km or more here. There's a surprising amount of fuel in those little tanks.

[Rocket In My Pocket]

51 minutes ago, vyznev said:

Unless you're using silly tricks to build a 10 km tall launch clamp or something, I doubt it makes any significant difference. We're talking about flight distances of 200–500 km or more here. There's a surprising amount of fuel in those little tanks.

I mean..the offset tool is far from a trick? It's pretty simple actually. (It's absolutely something most people here on the board who do these challenges know about.)

We've had challenges to glide all the way to the island runway using launch clamp height, so it should definitely be clarified in the rules if such things are allowed or not, as it will add considerable distance to any flight, and will most certainly be used if allowed.

Edited May 3, 2019 by Rocket In My Pocket

[lunardog15]

Oh boi I get to use the pigeon

it's a vtol very similar to the Pogo  

[Pds314]

16 hours ago, Rocket In My Pocket said:

I don't see any rule about starting way up on a launch clamp?

Which would easily let you go way further, prolly further with no fuel just gliding, than someone could do powered from the ground with the fuel.

Should definitely be a rule about a max starting height.

Ok, starting on a Kerbin-sized launch clamp is cheating lol.

17 hours ago, Tyr Anasazi said:

Can we use electric propellers?

Stock props are legit.

[vyznev]

Speaking of rules lawyering, I'm not 100% sure what this sentence is supposed to mean:

On 5/2/2019 at 3:36 AM, Pds314 said:

Walking is okay if it isn't a propulsion method.

I mean, walking kind of is a propulsion method: you push against the ground to propel yourself forward. (Except kerbals seem to do it differently, and apparently magically push against the fabric of the universe instead.  But they still propel themselves.) So I'm kind of confused about what this is trying to say. You can walk, but only if you don't go anywhere? Clarification, please?

(In any case, I assume that just getting off your stopped vehicle and walking to gain more distance from KSC would be cheating. But I'm not sure exactly what other kinds of walking are meant to be allowed by this rule.)

[Rocket In My Pocket]

9 hours ago, Pds314 said:

Ok, starting on a Kerbin-sized launch clamp is cheating lol.

OK!

Here's my entry, so far. (It's still flying...)

Started on a very modest launch clamp only about 1,500m up. (WAY smaller than "Kerbin sized." Considerably less than the length of the runway if you stood it on end, which is 2,500m in case you have trouble picturing it.) I'm already past 500km distance, cruising at 17k, with 16ish minutes of fuel left.

Update: Just ran out of fuel, at 1,500km.

Welp, I lost signal and crashed shortly after. However, going triple the prior best with only a 1,500m starting height, I think; illustrates my point about launch clamp towers inflating the distances. (Although to be perfectly fair, I didn't try it from the ground for comparison so I don't really know how much distance was added exactly. I'd think a couple hundred meters at least?)

Which raises another "rules-lawyering" question; does the craft have to survive it's landing to count?

Edited May 4, 2019 by Rocket In My Pocket

[zolotiyeruki]

Would it be acceptable to use a half-filled (so the same amount of fuel) Oscar-B instead of the Dumpling?

[Rocket In My Pocket]

9 hours ago, zolotiyeruki said:

Would it be acceptable to use a half-filled (so the same amount of fuel) Oscar-B instead of the Dumpling?

Probably not, as it would have way better drag qualities given it's attachment node's compared to the Dumplings surface attachment.

[purpleivan]

I had a crack at this, even though my plane skills are more than a little woeful. I forgot to plant a flag and used the F3 menu instead to get the ground distance covered.

First Jeb went out in Lil Dumplin' 1 and made it to 114km.

More Pics.

Spoiler

Unconventional launch method of start engine, then a couple seconds later detach from tower.

Result... plane plumets towards the ground but has enough lift not to hit it.

Leaving Las KSC.

Heading across the bay

Now across land... this goes on for a while.

Well that's the fuel gone, time to glide now.

What'dya mean this thing glides like a overweight brick.

Oh well... at least some of the plane survived.

Not to be beaten Val took out a modified version Lil Dumplin' 2.

But even with more lift from the heavier wings and a route over water, she only made it 113km.

More pics.
 

Spoiler

 

Got uncomfortably close (this was after it started lifting) to hitting the ground before the thing went skyward.

Heading out to sea.

On you left you can see the famed Island of "Where wierd stuff happens".

Cruising along.

Out of gas.

In the fish soup.

 

 

Edited May 5, 2019 by purpleivan

[Lapis]

On 5/1/2019 at 7:36 PM, Pds314 said:

7. Plant a flag or craft at KSC beforehand so we know how far you got.

can we use the End of mission/F3 window for more accurate results?

[Rocket In My Pocket]

15 minutes ago, lapis said:

can we use the End of mission/F3 window for more accurate results?

Everyone has so far.

[RedSun Rocketry]

is it allowed to launch the craft from a different launch site if you measure distance from that launch site?

[zolotiyeruki]

One important warning: the distance travelled shown in the F3 menu is NOT accurate. I don't know the exact source or magnitude of the inaccuracy, but it seems to be related to the rotation of Kerbin while you're airborne, or something like that. We ran into that a lot during the Circumnavigation Challenge.

It would be a lot more accurate to record one's longitude on landing/crashing.