KSP and software economics

[hieywiey]

[Moderator's note:  This post was originally made, reasonably, in the recent Daily Kerbal post about new rotors soon to be added to Breaking Ground.  That's not so much of an issue in itself, but it kicked off a lengthy debate about the economics of charging money for products, which is a perfectly reasonable discussion to have, but off-topic for that thread, derailing the discussion about the parts themselves.  Therefore, posts on the subject from that thread have been moved here.  Thank you for your understanding.]

So are all new parts in the future going to be locked behind DLC?

Edited July 5, 2019 by Snark
Moderator note about split thread

[JERONIMO]

Just now, hieywiey said:

So are all new parts in the future going to be locked behind DLC?

i guess, otherwise it's free rotors for all

[Superfluous J]

1 hour ago, hieywiey said:

So are all new parts in the future going to be locked behind DLC?

I would guess any parts with new functionality not already in the game will be in DLC, yes. If these come with some new LF tanks there's a chance you'll get those for free, but I can't really imagine them continuing development of new features without getting paid for them.

[hieywiey]

1 minute ago, 5thHorseman said:

I would guess any parts with new functionality not already in the game will be in DLC, yes. If these come with some new LF tanks there's a chance you'll get those for free, but I can't really imagine them continuing development of new features without getting paid for them.

*Sigh* At least T2 hasn't tried to ban mods (yet) like they tried to do with GTA V.

[JERONIMO]

2 minutes ago, hieywiey said:

*Sigh* At least T2 hasn't tried to ban mods (yet) like they tried to do with GTA V.

the community would storm their headquarters if they did.

[Superfluous J]

8 minutes ago, hieywiey said:

*Sigh* At least T2 hasn't tried to ban mods (yet) like they tried to do with GTA V.

At least they didn't just close down when the money dried up.

[klgraham1013]

22 minutes ago, hieywiey said:

*Sigh* At least T2 hasn't tried to ban mods (yet) like they tried to do with GTA V.

I know.  Instead we've gotten some of the best updates for KSP in years and a DLC worthy of paying for.

[JERONIMO]

40 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

I know.  Instead we've gotten some of the best updates for KSP in years and a DLC worthy of paying for.

agree, partially, that cuts the game for normal players who cannot pay for the DLC. 

[Superfluous J]

4 hours ago, JERONIMO said:

agree, partially, that cuts the game for normal players who cannot pay for the DLC. 

I'd guess your average KSP player can find $15 lying around if they wanted to buy the DLC. Considering they already bought the game, a computer, and the monthly internet fee to download it, all of those things (except the game if they got out on sale) costing more than the DLC does.

I do truly feel bad for those in a situation where they cannot afford luxuries like this, but there is no way to keep getting content for the game without paying for it.

Think of it this way, eventually you will be able to pay. And by then it may even be cheaper. Isn't it better that the content is there, instead of the alternative that they just stopped making content so nobody had it?

5 hours ago, hieywiey said:

*Sigh* At least T2 hasn't tried to ban mods (yet) like they tried to do with GTA V.

Also I can't let this one go by again without comment.

TTI did not "try to ban mods." They changed the wording of their EULA so they could close a loophole that made it okay for a mod to unlock paid content for free.

Edited July 5, 2019 by 5thHorseman

[Chel]

If it's going to be a DLC then god help SQUAD...

 

[Superfluous J]

6 minutes ago, The_Cat_In_Space said:

If it's going to be a DLC then god help SQUAD...

 

It's not going to be a (new) DLC. The image says it's for the already-released DLC Breaking Ground.

[hieywiey]

Can a moderator please remove my original posts as the topic I brought up has become highly negative and unproductive? Also remove this post once the original posts have been removed as well.

Edited July 5, 2019 by hieywiey

[Vanamonde]

43 minutes ago, hieywiey said:

Can a moderator please remove my original posts as the topic I brought up has become highly negative and unproductive? Also remove this post once the original posts have been removed as well.

You could edit the content out of your posts if you want to, but others have quoted them and those would still be here. 

[Chel]

1 hour ago, 5thHorseman said:

It's not going to be a (new) DLC. The image says it's for the already-released DLC Breaking Ground.

So  you're telling me that one of the most requested features of all time for this game is only DLC. 

Thanks SQUAD for community division!

[klgraham1013]

10 minutes ago, The_Cat_In_Space said:

So  you're telling me that one of the most requested features of all time for this game is only DLC. 

Thanks SQUAD for community division!

They're telling you that it costs money to develop features. 

[JERONIMO]

1 hour ago, 5thHorseman said:

I'd guess your average KSP player can find $15 lying around if they wanted to buy the DLC. Considering they already bought the game, a computer, and the monthly internet fee to download it, all of those things (except the game if they got out on sale) costing more than the DLC does.

I do truly feel bad for those in a situation where they cannot afford luxuries like this, but there is no way to keep getting content for the game without partying for it.

Think of it this way, eventually you will be able to pay. And by then it may even be cheaper. Isn't it better that the content is there, instead of the alternative that they just stopped making content so nobody had it?

Also I can't let this one go by again without comment.

Sure. But unlike TTI, Squad (you remember it right?) could update the game and add new cool things, for FREE (almost). Why then TTI, a company with tons of money can't make new parts without DLCs...

Edited July 5, 2019 by JERONIMO

[Noir]

2 minutes ago, JERONIMO said:

Why then TTI, a company with tons of money can't make new parts without DLCs

This.

Old Squad was a very small indie dev, yet despite all it's flaws could still produce quality content (and bug fixes) for free. Now KSP is owned by one of the biggest gaming companies, yet is charging money for content that was either promised by old Squad or wanted by the community 5+ years ago.

I still remember when Porkjet was hired to add his mod into the game...

[Superfluous J]

1 hour ago, JERONIMO said:

Sure. But unlike TTI, Squad (you remember it right?) could update the game and add new cool things, for FREE (almost). Why then TTI, a company with tons of money can't make new parts without DLCs...

I do remember Squad. They were that company that sold all the rights to their only product to another company in exchange for a job from that company to work on their old product.

Do you think they did that because they were making so much money they could keep going forever giving away free content but decided to sell it anyway, or maybe that they took the best offer to come along to stay afloat?

Bottom line. Working for free is not and never will be a viable strategy. You can sometimes coast for free after a big success, but it will never, ever work long term.

If you think otherwise, I would love to hire you.

Edited July 5, 2019 by 5thHorseman

[JERONIMO]

3 minutes ago, 5thHorseman said:

I do remember Squad. They were that company that sold all the rights to their only product to another company in exchange for a job from that company to work on their old product.

Do you think they did that because they were making so much money they could keep going forever giving away free content but decided to sell it anyway, or maybe that they took the best offer to come along to stay afloat?

Bottom line. Working for free is not and never will be a viable strategy. You can sometimes coast for free after a big success, but it will never, ever work long term.

If you think otherwise, I would love to hire you.

Sure, you have a point. but the game is NOT FREE (unless if you are a dev), the thing is that squad could support free content if they haven't been sold to TTI but make advertisements. By the way, you can try to hire me, but to young to work :). If you think otherwise, well see how GTA V ended up :D.

[Chel]

2 minutes ago, JERONIMO said:

If you think otherwise, well see how GTA V ended up

But GTA V is supported by microtransactions. KSP has no such thing (at least not yet, thank god)

[JERONIMO]

4 minutes ago, The_Cat_In_Space said:

But GTA V is supported by microtransactions. KSP has no such thing (at least not yet, thank god)

what i mean is that you canplay it but it will be boring to play without dlc's

Edited July 5, 2019 by JERONIMO
made more sense

[Superfluous J]

2 minutes ago, JERONIMO said:

the game is NOT FREE

so.

what.

My house was not free. I paid for it. Quite a lot of money in fact. If I want to add another room should I call the previous owner and have them come over and do it for free?

You paid for KSP, as it was when you paid for it. Anything you got after that for free was a BONUS. The ONLY thing they owed you was bug fixes and they only owed you those if they could do them.

ANY content that was not in the game when you bought it is fair game for DLC. it's up to you to decide if you want to pay for it, but it is NOT your right as a human being to receive it just because you tossed a few bucks their way years ago. And it is NOT evil or bad or corporate or a paywall or anything for them to expect to be paid for their work.

I bought KSP over 6 years ago. I have gotten more free content from Squad and TTI for this one purchase than for any other purchase I've ever made in my life. Them asking for less money than it costs to eat a dinner out by myself, for a sliver of new content compared to what they've just handed out for free for the better part of a decade is not a terrible demand. It's almost literally the least they could expect.

[JERONIMO]

2 minutes ago, The_Cat_In_Space said:

yeah, and stock ksp is so boring. 'this craft requires making history and breaking ground to use' 'new propellors only available through a DLC'. *sigh*

sure, let's just believe that all of this is for one massive free update.

[Raptor9]

(Sigh) Another announcement, another debate about DLC's costing money.  I really wish more people would take it upon themselves to learn more about how economics work.

I'm extremely frugal with my money, some have even called me cheap.  But I personally think $15 dollars for the content in either DLC is more than reasonable.  But this isn't a garage sale where you get to haggle. As with the previous DLC, either you think the content is worth the price, or you don't.  Nothing is going to change how the world works, this is how trade has been for thousands of years.

[Noir]

People are allowed to discuss the value and cost of a product, especially when there are free (and often superior) alternatives. More importantly, people are allowed to be critical of said content, especially when that content costs money. Without being critical of content you end up with potential content such as The Barn. It would be nice if people could have these discussions without being told outright that their option is wrong.

 

I have just noticed that the R121 looks to big function as a tail rotor, and I'm guessing the intend use is as a generic piston prop engine.