totm october 2019 Beyond Hope Travelling Circus -- Episode 10: The Show Must Go On

[KSK]

9 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

When a species can have its brains pureed (to strain any parasites, blood clots, alien implants, mental illness, or socially unacceptable ideas out of the resulting slop) and go back to work later that same day with no ill effects, it tends to be oblivious to most other species that prey on (or might cooperate with) psyches.  This doesn't mean Kerbal psyches can't self-destruct when given enough incentive, of course  

It's been a long while since I read the books but I do remember a particularly unpleasant interrogation technique that relied on a kind of necromantic EEG and resulted in complete personality destruction rather than mere death. Now, I knows that the average Circus recruit don't have a lot between his or her hairy lugholes but I'm thinking the Scientists might be a mite aggrieved to find nothing at all to debrief.

On the other hand, a slightly toned down version of that technique might be just the ticket for debriefs without dissections - with the added bonus that it'll finally stop the KSC janitorial staff from moaning about mopping pureed brains off the floor of Debriefing Rooms 1 through 5.

Not that the moaning gets them anywhere of course, but the constant background noise is irritating.

Edited August 13, 2019 by KSK

[Geschosskopf]

15 hours ago, KSK said:

It's been a long while since I read the books but I do remember a particularly unpleasant interrogation technique that relied on a kind of necromantic EEG and resulted in complete personality destruction rather than mere death. Now, I knows that the average Circus recruit don't have a lot between his or her hairy lugholes but I'm thinking the Scientists might be a mite aggrieved to find nothing at all to debrief.

Hmm, sounds unpleasant.... 

I've often been annoyed that necromancy doesn't work anymore (it worked in the Old Testament, even on the corpse of a major prophet).  It would make history and archaeology a lot easier.  I mean, like all historians and experimental archaeologists professional and avocational, I have a BUNCH of technical questions about the details of life, subsistence, warfare, crafting, politics, religion, you name it, from various points in history.  And the bones, bodies, and/or mummies of actual participants in those events, sometimes even key players, are right there in museums, church altars, and graveyards.  But when I ask them about their times, I get no answer.  Where's the Witch of Endor when you need her?  

 

15 hours ago, KSK said:

On the other hand, a slightly toned down version of that technique might be just the ticket for debriefs without dissections ...

Where's the fun in that?

[Geschosskopf]

EPISODE 7: A Whole Lot of Nothing

Spoiler

 

For them as might not get the above link, it's The Rifffs "Whole Lot of Nothing".  Which basically sums up this episode.  Lots of sound a fury signifying nothing.  Feel free to ignore this whole post.  Anyway, on with the show, such as it is.

================================================

This episode marks the 1st time the Beyond Hope Travelling Circus has left Rhode's SOI and it did so many times for various purposes.  Lots of contract jobs to try to recoup the vast expenditure on the useless Only Wave base on Lua.....

The 1st ship to leave was the Class C Roid Sniffer Mk 1 intended to meet that sort of roid in orbit around the Tempus System Barycenter.  Just sniffing a Class C roid satisfied a decent contract but the Circus decided to get some extra World's First awards from EPIKFAIL (Extravagant Projects Induced by Kerbals Following Absolutely Incorrect Logic) for doing this outside Rhode's SOI.  The roid wasn't due to enter Rhode's SOI for about 180 days but Mission Control hoped to intercept it about 50 days before that.

Then it was finally time for Hydrus Expedition 1, which had been parked orbiting Rhode for about 2 months, to leave.  This went off about as well as could be expected with most of the 5 ships exploding their over-built lifter stages during their ejection burns.  The 1st pic shows, from left to right, the Hydrus Polar Relays, the Hydrus Science! Probe, and the Hydrus System SCAN-Ore Probe leaving.  The 2nd pic shows HE-1 PHESTER, the Hydron Science Probe, and a map view of the whole flotilla on its way.  Because Hydrus is not far inside of Rhode, the outward trip would take nearly a year, about 380 days.

Then there was a contract to put a SENTINEL in between Rhode and Hydrus.  This will take about 1.5 years to reach the specified orbit.

The next target of a crewed flight is Ash, the distant, semi-molten 3rd moon of Rhode.  To pave the way for this (which involves contracts and EPIKFAIL awards), the Boffins decided they needed an equatorial relay and would also snag a "position a satellite" contract with a 2nd ship.  Which they forgot to put relay antennae on.  D'oh!  Fortunately, this wasn't such a huge oversight so only resulted in a few mid-level Boffins being flogged, no executions.

The only ship NOT to leave Rhode's SOI this time around was the Class D Roid Sniffer, which intends to intercept such a roid as it comes into Rhode's SOI for another payout.  But this won't happen for a while.  It's doubtful this probe will be able to capture the roid but the Boffins gave it a lot of extra dV just to see what it could do.

By now, the 2 probes launched for Ash had completed their week-long trip to its SOI but it still took them 4 days to get from there to their Pes.  These 4 days allowed several missions to Lua and Armstrong, both only a few hours away from Rhode, to play out in their entirety.

First, there was a contract to rendezvous in Armstrong orbit so the Boffins took the opportunity to add some more docking ports to the otherwise useless Armstrong Station, which nobody ever intends to visit except for contracts.  This little ship was powered entirely by monopropellant, another 1st of its kind, just to see if it would work.

Then, while Megbrett and her jolly crew of LBE-1 were still fully mapping out just how futile their whole enterprise had become (80 days and counting), they looked up and saw a rather large lander coming down from the north and landing well to the south.  This was to satisfy a contract to build a base on Lua.  Again, nobody expects ever to use this facility.

And then it was back to Armstrong to rescue Tamrid (or whatever her name is--nobody bothered to write it down) AND recover her wreck.  The Boffins considered doing this in 1 trip but decided against this due to having no idea what the wreckage was.  This proved a wise decision as "Tamrid" turned out to be in a Hitchhiker can.  Just the crew rescue, however, satisfied not only half this contract but also an EPIKFAIL contract for transferring crew in Armstrong orbit.  Now the Boffins just have to figure out how to catch and land the Hitchhiker.  

"Tamrid" seems to have been stuck in Armstrong orbit since before the previous collapse of civilization,.  She speaks an archaic dialect that's largely unintelligible and seems pretty much riddled with Space Madness, so we might not hear from her again.

Once "Tamrid" was being debriefed/dissected, the 2 Ash probes had finally made their way to center and captured into their assigned orbits.  Ash's glowing lava continues to impress and the Scientists are already trying to figure how to get Kerbals to wade out into it.

And finally, the Class C Roid Sniffer Mk 1 met up with its target about 44 days before it reached Rhode's SOI.  It only has about 80m/s left in its tanks so is just along for the ride from this point.

And that completes this whole lot of nothing.  Mission Control apologizes that no Kerbals were harmed in this episode, except for the culture shock being experienced by "Tamrid", which really doesn't count.  Hopefully, something more interesting will happen next time.

 

Tune in next time for more of the slow spiral into damnation.

Edited August 22, 2019 by Geschosskopf

[Cydonian Monk]

On 8/17/2019 at 10:56 PM, Geschosskopf said:

"Was the dark of the moon on the sixth of June,
In a Kenworth pullin' logs.
Cab-over Pete with a reefer on, 
And a Jimmy haulin' hogs...."

 

On 8/17/2019 at 10:56 PM, Geschosskopf said:

This will take about 1.5 years to reach the specified orbit.

Now that there's some optimism.  

On 8/17/2019 at 10:56 PM, Geschosskopf said:

add some more docking ports to the otherwise useless Armstrong Station, which nobody ever intends to visit....

At least until you get a contract that asks you to add a module and a crew to the same station. (At which point the newly conscripted inhabitants will probably find a bunch of docking ports that lead directly to bulkheads or crawlspaces so small only ants could fit through them.)

On 8/17/2019 at 10:56 PM, Geschosskopf said:

She speaks an archaic dialect that's largely unintelligible and seems pretty much riddled with Space Madness

Seems like you found the perfect crew to return to said useless station.  

[Geschosskopf]

15 minutes ago, Cydonian Monk said:

"Was the dark of the moon on the sixth of June,
In a Kenworth pullin' logs.
Cab-over Pete with a reefer on, 
And a Jimmy haulin' hogs...."

Hehehe, I actually have that song playing in my mind whenever I launch a flotilla.  Such departures are about my favorite thing in KSP.

 

15 minutes ago, Cydonian Monk said:

Now that there's some optimism.  

Well, sadly, BARIS malfunctioned itself so isn't around to cause problems.  Thus, there's not a lot that can go wrong here, other than the universe imploding again.  It'll take about 3/4 of a year to get to it's 1st burn point, then about 3/4 again to get to the second.  It's the paradox of going to something not very far away.  In a little while, I'll be sending another flotilla to Scaythe (next planet out from Rhode) and possibly to Fury (innermost planet).  I expect both of these to arrive before Hydrus Expedition 1.

 

15 minutes ago, Cydonian Monk said:

At least until you get a contract that asks you to add a module and a crew to the same station. (At which point the newly conscripted inhabitants will probably find a bunch of docking ports that lead directly to bulkheads or crawlspaces so small only ants could fit through them.)

No doubt.  The only stations I put any thought into are the ones I intend to use myself.  The others are just what the customers ask for.  As they only specific a "Collection of Parts"^TM,  details like comfort and convenience are not considered.

 

15 minutes ago, Cydonian Monk said:

Seems like you found the perfect crew to return to said useless station.  

Brilliant idea!  I'll have to keep that in mind should the need arise  

[Speeding Mullet]

On 8/18/2019 at 1:56 PM, Geschosskopf said:

pretty much riddled with Space Madness

Which seems to have flowed through from the Circus to the Sunrise Station over in my thread.  Expect to see accompanying music soon .

I have to say this wasn't a whole lot of nothing.  I do enjoy seeing a whole bunch of ships outward or inward bound in the map.  Very satisfying seeing ships orbits everywhere.  Also I had a look back and spotted your atmospheric probes for "exploring XYZ at or below 123 feet".  It makes so much sense, but I'd honestly never thought of doing it that way before.  Another idea for the shop floor over at Mullet Dyne!

Keep going I'll keep reading!  Tentatively, and without going off topic - I do hope that KSP2 provides good underpinning for stories, sagas, play-throughs, and ongoing mission reports such as this and others.  I see no reason why it wouldn't!

SM

[Geschosskopf]

4 hours ago, Speeding Mullet said:

Which seems to have flowed through from the Circus to the Sunrise Station over in my thread.  Expect to see accompanying music soon .

Apologies for failing to maintain proper body substance isolation protocols  

 

4 hours ago, Speeding Mullet said:

I have to say this wasn't a whole lot of nothing.  I do enjoy seeing a whole bunch of ships outward or inward bound in the map.  Very satisfying seeing ships orbits everywhere.  Also I had a look back and spotted your atmospheric probes for "exploring XYZ at or below 123 feet".  It makes so much sense, but I'd honestly never thought of doing it that way before.  Another idea for the shop floor over at Mullet Dyne!

You mean the DOLTs in Episode 2?  I actually stole the idea of Juno-powered minidrones from @Cydonian Monk.  Previously, I'd used rather large, complex, difficult-to-launch drone planes packing all sorts of Science! and ore sensors.  But if the main purpose is just move the camera to where you can see interesting stuff, then a much smaller vehicle suffices.  This also leaves more for Kerbals to do if they ever go to the same places.

 

4 hours ago, Speeding Mullet said:

Keep going I'll keep reading!  Tentatively, and without going off topic - I do hope that KSP2 provides good underpinning for stories, sagas, play-throughs, and ongoing mission reports such as this and others.  I see no reason why it wouldn't!

Thanks!  And I don't mind going a bit OT here.  In light of recent events, I think it's justified to speculate a bit on what the future holds for Mission Reports in general and the Circus specifically.  Besides, I don't have anything mission-related to report yet  

As I understand things, KSP2 will be KSP1 with more stuff farther away.  My money is on some OPM-like stuff tacked on plus the advertised neighboring stars.  And Kerbals still appear to be Kerbals, only with better hair   So I don't see anything stopping this whole Mission Reports topic from continuing.  It'll just have new places to go and more things to talk about.

I'm quite interested in the whole colony thing.  Establishing major colonies on other planets has always been the primary goal of the Circus since the beginning, but I've never been able to do more than a few small, starter colonies.  The limitation on number of flights and the lack of suitable parts (even with mods) has always been a hard limit, but the real killer has been real time  The game has always updated long before I've done as much as I can or want to.  Sure, I could have archived the old version and kept playing it, but then I wouldn't have been able to play with the new stuff in the update.

KSP2 seems intent on removing the 1st problem, based on the trailer.  So yay!  However, the time issue will no doubt remain and perhaps even be worse.  I expect KSP2 to take at least a year or so to settle out after release.  There will be bugs.  There will be a barrage of balance tweaks to satisfy the MP crowd.  There will be a few lagniappe features added that weren't quite ready for the initial release date, which will themselves have bugs to be sorted.

And on top of all this, I would be shocked if KSP2 retained KSP1's admirable lack of DRM.  $60 game from a major, somewhat shady publisher?  C'mon.  Is it reasonable to expect anything else?

But OTOH, the devs know the community is full of old farts like me who are tired of the stock system and will want to get further afield soonest, without having to build everything from scratch, yet still want some career/science gameplay, not sandbox.  So I'm hoping that there will be an option to start with all the regular tech in hand and perhaps multiple colonies/bases in the original system, so you can get on with the new stuff immediately.  That would save a lot of valuable time before the next game-breaker.

[Geschosskopf]

EPISODE 08: Deep, Dark Hole  

Spoiler

 

(For them as the above link don't work for, it's Los Lobos doing "Deep Dark Hole".  And I take this opportunity to call out the mezcaleros one more time to serve all us Kerberos as much as we can drink until we go loco regretting that KSP is no longer hecho en Mexico.  Salud to mis amigos at Squad!  Gracias por todo or words to that effect.  I don't claim fluency even in the patois I was raised speaking so usually have no idea what language I'm trying to speak.)

Anyway, on with the show......

============================================================

The Circus had some unfinished business.  To start with, there was bringing home Tamner's (after further review, that's really her name) Hitchhiker can from Armstrong orbit.  The Boffins had a solution near at hand---they decided to repurpose their old test stand, earner of many funds from back when testing parts at the launchpad had been a thing but for months now just rusting away ingloriously behind the VAB.  Just attaching a Klaw, some chutes, fuel, engines, RCS, and heat shields to this framework seemed to meet the needs and thus the SCOW (Seeking and Collecting Orbital Wreckage) Mk1 was made.  A simple SSTO LFO lifter got it on its way.

 

Soon, the SCOW Mk1 met up with Tamner's Hitchhiker.  In the dark, as is only right and proper.

 

The SCOW Mk1 proved to be rather crank under RCS and didn't get the can quite centered.  When the main engine took over for the trip back to Rhode, the bastidized assembly spiraled around the desired direction on a radius of about 30^.  But it did so consistently so the net thrust was close enough to the desired direction.  Thus, the SCOW Mk1 and its payload eventually captured at Rhode, did its de-orbit burn, shed its engines, and came on in.

 

And SCOW Mk1's parachutes proved adequate so the whole mess made it safely to the ground.  The Boffins rejoiced at getting their test stand back safely, even if they hadn't otherwise used it in months, while the Scientists dug into Tamner's ancient artifact.  The Boffins had already taken a glance at the retrieved wreckage, seen nothing of note, and gone back to more pressing business.

 

Meanwhile, back on Lua, LBE-1 had put 88 days into trying to get the Only Wave base operational.  They'd gotten so far as to activate the base but every time they called on the ancient robots to build them a new ship, the universe threatened to implode., so they'd had to back out.  Finally, Mission Control decided there was nothing more to be gained by using the kid gloves and called for the mailed fist.  They authorized the use of LBE-1's ultimate weapon.  Things did not go as anticipated....

 

But hey, that's why the cyberwar was conducted from a totally separate ship.  Although LBE-1 EBOLA was toast, LBE-1 SCLEROSIS was still OK, thus providing a way home.  Before boarding LBE-1 SCLEROSIS, Megbrett mustered her crew and gave an inspirational speech to counteract their thoughts on the mission's failure.

(NOTE:  POM is a euphemistic acronym used by the the higher castes when trying to be polite.  It means "Piece of Mulch".  This differs from "pom", previously encountered, which is lower deck slang for any kerb of a higher caste but, in the Circus, is usually reserved for Mission Control and its representatives.)

Needless to say, the crew of LBE-1 was rather jollier homeward-bound than they'd been for the previous 88 days.  The crew of LBE-1 were glad there were not space cops doing spot FWI checks.

 

During the mission, Megbrett had taken special notice of Piper as a sharp hand.  Over the past few months, Piper had always been first into the breach and had often bludgeoned recalcitrant hands into following Mission Control's dictates.  The ideal bosunsmate, of which no nob with ambition can ever have enough.  Megbrett would not forget her old shipmate. (BONUS B-SIDE TRACK!). 

 

And the rest of the crew also felt the camaraderie of shared hardships.

 

This still left Megbrett to face the consequences of disillusioning Mission Control, even if it wasn't entirely her fault.

 

Tune in next time for more of the slow spiral into damnation. 

Edited September 1, 2019 by Geschosskopf

[Speeding Mullet]

On 8/22/2019 at 1:48 AM, Geschosskopf said:

You mean the DOLTs in Episode 2?

Yes, but also in episode 7 I spotted them I think, in the 5th image?  Well @Cydonian Monk can consider them stolen again.  My MO for the (very few) career playthroughs I have done involves explodey low tech planes that take 3 hours to reach their destination, and then fail to reach the required altitude

On 8/22/2019 at 1:48 AM, Geschosskopf said:

But OTOH, the devs know the community is full of old farts like me who are tired of the stock system and will want to get further afield soonest, without having to build everything from scratch, yet still want some career/science gameplay, not sandbox.  So I'm hoping that there will be an option to start with all the regular tech in hand and perhaps multiple colonies/bases in the original system, so you can get on with the new stuff immediately.  That would save a lot of valuable time before the next game-breaker.

I agree with a lot of what you wrote above this.  I think I'm an old fart, but at the same time a lot of what I wanted to do in the game swings around establishing colonies, and KSP just doesn't really support this well enough.  Once you have established a colony I find there isn't much to do beyond look at it.  any semblance of realism goes out the way due to no life support, or if you have a mod installed then the first time you ping a ship out to Jool at 100000x  because there's really or interest not point in maintaining it, everything in your colony (were you to have life support) probably would have died.  this issue is compounded, but not unsolvable for travel to neighboring systems I guess.

One idea for your option to start with all the regular tech and multiple colonies etc. would be a "Scenario career" option, where by you enter the universe at a point where you have partially colonized the existing system.  there are some contracts available in system still (such as Deliver love to Dres / Drop these spent NERVA Engines into the Mohole etc.), but the main thrust of the contracts is to reach and explore the new systems in the game.

for me - I am most excited about doing the original system "properly" before spreading out to other systems.  The remarkable thing about this game is that despite playing it for years I have still done comparatively little.  Maybe another case for a few more Elcano's before next year

After reading Chapter 8, I have to ask do you prefer writing stories around career playthroughs, or within sandbox?  Strikes me from your threads you favor playthroughs.  My only real complaint with career mode is that everything starts the same and I get a little bit bored before the interesting contracts come my way.  I also get overwhelmed by "test part in stupid conditions under 4 feet on Jool" style contracts.  I know there's a way to a better contracts system, but I'm too lazy to mod KSP right now.

SM

[Geschosskopf]

1 hour ago, Speeding Mullet said:

Yes, but also in episode 7 I spotted them I think, in the 5th image? 

Oh, that's HE-1 PHESTER.  It's not small by any means, barely fitting inside a 3.5m fairing   Still, it was as small as I could make a twin-engine electro-prop plane with the tech available.  Strangely, you unlock the large "Size B" prop blades first and I had neglected to allow gizmoing parts farther than normal, so couldn't make a functional coaxial arrangement.  So not only is the thing wide due to the prop diameters, but also has to stand on absurdly tall wheels for sufficient ground clearance of the blades.

PHESTER is bound for Hydrus, a planet with rather low gravity, a dense, tall atmosphere, and no oxygen.  Hence the need for electric props.  I THINK it should fly reasonably well there but really don't know.  It's something of an experiment, the lessons of which can be used for a better plane (with hopefully smaller props by then) for HE-2.  But I hope it does well enough to see the sights.  Hydrus is rumored to have some rather odd features which I intend to investigate.

 

1 hour ago, Speeding Mullet said:

I agree with a lot of what you wrote above this.  I think I'm an old fart, but at the same time a lot of what I wanted to do in the game swings around establishing colonies, and KSP just doesn't really support this well enough.  Once you have established a colony I find there isn't much to do beyond look at it.  any semblance of realism goes out the way due to no life support, or if you have a mod installed then the first time you ping a ship out to Jool at 100000x  because there's really or interest not point in maintaining it, everything in your colony (were you to have life support) probably would have died.  this issue is compounded, but not unsolvable for travel to neighboring systems I guess.

Exactly.  Life support is something KSP1 certainly is better off without, and I say that even though I've been using LS mods for years.  I've even got Snacks! in this BHTC story.  I really don't know why and am considering uninstalling it.

Basically, in KSP1, life support is either totally pointless or cripplingly counterproductive.  If you can take care of it in the design phase (packing enough supplies for the mission), then you never need to worry about it again, so it's pointless.  It adds exactly zero to gameplay while increasing the part count, mass, and cost of ships, not to mention overhead on your system with all its background calculations and parts.  OTOH, if LS is something you have to actively participate in fairly often, it immediately limits the total size of your space empire because KSP1 was built on the concept of only having 1 mission going at a time.  If you're having to spend a lot of real time running mines, trucking resources around, juggling converters, etc., then stuff that takes years to reach its target will NEVER get there.  This could be solved by the ability to automate routine activities like this (as is done in many other games), so once you set things up, the system should run hands-off forever.  But if you can automate it, then it no longer affects your gameplay, then it might as well NOT be there for all the time you spend on it, and you won't have its overhead load.

This is why I have ALWAYS argued strongly against life support ever becoming stock.  Looks like I've finally lost that argument, though, given the greenhouses in the KSP2 trailer.     I certainly hope they can figure a way to make it pointless, or else we won't actually be able to build colonies like that .  I mean, I'd use the greenhouse parts for RP purposes, but I'd prefer there be an option that turns the whole LS mechanic off.

Another, even stronger reason why I don't want stock life support is because it will force a certain biology on Kerbals.  I REALLY don't want to see Kerbals have the same metabolic needs as humans, as they're aliens and all.  The whole Circus thing ultimately derives from my Kerbals being asexual fungi.  This has shaped their whole mental outlook and culture.  But I have a feeling biology has to be coming in KSP2 anyway.  "Building a civilization" implies the need for population growth, so Kerbals will have to make babies somehow.  So I'm already thinking the Circus is going to be in the market for a whole new canon.

 

1 hour ago, Speeding Mullet said:

for me - I am most excited about doing the original system "properly" before spreading out to other systems.  The remarkable thing about this game is that despite playing it for years I have still done comparatively little.  Maybe another case for a few more Elcano's before next year

What do you call "properly" ?  I used to think it meant colonies everywhere but then I realized KSP just can't handle that.  It's fundamentally a game of exploration, not exploitation or expansion, even with mods.  Really, there aren't any good places to settle in the stock system anyway.  And I'm tired of exploring the same places over and over.  That's why I've been using Kopernicus the last few times.

 

1 hour ago, Speeding Mullet said:

After reading Chapter 8, I have to ask do you prefer writing stories around career playthroughs, or within sandbox?  Strikes me from your threads you favor playthroughs.  My only real complaint with career mode is that everything starts the same and I get a little bit bored before the interesting contracts come my way.  I also get overwhelmed by "test part in stupid conditions under 4 feet on Jool" style contracts.  I know there's a way to a better contracts system, but I'm too lazy to mod KSP right now

I haven't played sandbox since career 1st came along.  I've never played science mode.  I always have a sandbox save in the same install as the career game, but I use that just as lab to test out various designs and mission profiles before committing to them in the career.

I do, however, play career with rather easy settings.

• 200% rewards across the board (but also 200% failure penalties)..  I'm a government agency, not 2 guys in a garage.
• No penalty for declining contracts.  That way, I can delete the stupid and/or inconvenient ones and draw again however many times it takes.
• Custom Barn Kit to set the price of hiring Kerbals to a constant $1000, a few hours wages for the pressgang.  I think it's stupid to pay so much for a totally unskilled recruits.  This also lets me skip all the stupid, repetitive rescue contracts to build my roster.  I only pick a few interesting ones, such as the one I did above, that have some slight value to the story.
• Kerbals level up immediately.  I find it stupid that Kerbals supposedly only learn by OJT, but somehow that doesn't kick in until they get home.  Besides, in my universe, OJT means watching the same instructional videos over and over during the trip, so they know what to do when they get there.

These settings let me play in a way more to my tastes.  They allow me to blow through the really boring initial grind phase but progress slows significantly in the mid-game, which is my favorite part.  I have enough money to launch large flotillas but the ships are limited by mid-range tech, so mission design is still challenging.

[greenTurtle1134]

1 hour ago, Geschosskopf said:

Another, even stronger reason why I don't want stock life support is because it will force a certain biology on Kerbals.  I REALLY don't want to see Kerbals have the same metabolic needs as humans, as they're aliens and all.  The whole Circus thing ultimately derives from my Kerbals being asexual fungi.  This has shaped their whole mental outlook and culture.  But I have a feeling biology has to be coming in KSP2 anyway.  "Building a civilization" implies the need for population growth, so Kerbals will have to make babies somehow.  So I'm already thinking the Circus is going to be in the market for a whole new canon.

Hey, with the state of kerbalkind in your universe, the spore thing does lead to constant population growth. I mean, Kerbals have got to be killing themselves in creative ways, right? And if not, the Circus can just shoot some dissidents._{I really want to mod in the spores thing for some reason now.}

1 hour ago, Geschosskopf said:

If you're having to spend a lot of real time running mines, trucking resources around, juggling converters, etc., then stuff that takes years to reach its target will NEVER get there.  This could be solved by the ability to automate routine activities like this (as is done in many other games), so once you set things up, the system should run hands-off forever.  But if you can automate it, then it no longer affects your gameplay, then it might as well NOT be there for all the time you spend on it, and you won't have its overhead load.

Perhaps just have a "self-sufficiency" flag for a colony. Once you have more greenhouses than kerbals, for example, it flags the entire base as green and you don't have to worry about LS anymore. But for the initial phase, you might still have to truck resources around and juggle converters, maybe ship in resources for shortages, at least until all the hardware's working.

That way, it's a simple series of steps. Initial missions with pre-planned resources and no margin for failure, a brief in-situ colonization period which has to be micromanaged while it's still a frontier, and finally you've set up shop and you can forget about it.

One major effect of LS is that if something goes wrong, there's a time component; you can't just leave Kerbals sitting forever anymore. That might not be your preference, though. I hope they have an option to turn it off.

[Geschosskopf]

8 hours ago, greenTurtle1134 said:

Hey, with the state of kerbalkind in your universe, the spore thing does lead to constant population growth. I mean, Kerbals have got to be killing themselves in creative ways, right? And if not, the Circus can just shoot some dissidents._{I really want to mod in the spores thing for some reason now.}

Hehehe, yeah, I had to put some limitations on the spore thing to prevent overpopulation.  There are 3 main parts to this....

1.  Kerbals can only release spores when they're ripe.  This is how I explain things like Billy-Boblong falling 400m and walking away a couple episodes back.  That happened purely due to the randomness of Kerbal accidents--I was expecting him to pop.  But OBVIOUSLY, he just wasn't ripe yet  .  So, I imagine this sort of thing happens most of the time in daily Kerbal life, to prevent the hideously unsafe mills and sweatshops of Kerbal industry making more spores than products  

2.  Spores only sprout on fertile ground.  Because Kerbals evolved deep underground, that's where the fertile ground is, and only in certain places down there, not the concrete jungle.  Spores released elsewhere can lie dormant essentially forever, however, and stick like Mundust to anything passing by, so the spores of Kerbals who die elsewhere might eventually get to fertile soil.  But in general, as Kerbals started wandering farther from home, those who died afield were generally lost to the population.

3.  To solve this problem, one of the 1st specialized castes of Kerbals to evolve was the Gardener, whose job is to go around collecting spores from non-fertile areas and bringing them back to fertile areas.  They also developed fertilizers to improve the fertile areas, and they tended the crops of young sprouts.  Naturally, this led to religious beliefs about Ancestors, Sacred Ground, etc.  But more practically, over millennia, it ultimately led to the Kerbal species domesticating itself.   These days, Kerbal spores only sprout and grow properly in well-managed gardens, rather like the real maize (corn) plant.

 

8 hours ago, greenTurtle1134 said:

That way, it's a simple series of steps. Initial missions with pre-planned resources and no margin for failure, a brief in-situ colonization period which has to be micromanaged while it's still a frontier, and finally you've set up shop and you can forget about it.

That doesn't work   (I've actually tried this by deleting the LS mod's DLL once the base was built).  No matter what you do, LS is one of 2 extremes.  Either it has zero gameplay value with lots of useless overhead, or it becomes your whole game, preventing further exploration and expansion.  There is no middle ground.

The problem is, the 2nd phase, micromanagement, should never exist at all.  You can (and should) design your colonial expedition so that there should never been a need for micromanagement.  You simply pack enough supplies to last the trip and the time needed to get all the colony's components in place, then POOF, the colony is instantly self-sufficient.  So again, LS provides zero gameplay value while adding lots of useless overhead.

However, the reality is that, despite having designed a totally self-sufficient colony, you never have all the resources you need at the main base itself (unless your LS and ISRU mods let you make EVERYTHING out of Ore).  Thus, while the colony doesn't need anything else from Kerbin, various resources will have to be trucked in from neighboring mines, and LS supplies sent out from the main base to the mines.  Although various LS and ISRU mods have some degree of automation of these functions, I have never found one of these that actually does what I need it to do.   Thus, despite having designed and built a "fire-and-forget" colony, I still have to micromanage it forever, preventing me from doing anything else.  Unless I remove the LS DLL.

But let's say you CAN automate all the infrastructure, so the colony actually is "fire-and-forget".  It hits the ground running and you never have to micromanage it.  What point is there, then of having LS at all?  It's only impact on the player is in the design phase.  After that, the whole gameplay experience is simply a large number of Mun landings.  Only with lots of background LS calculations going on unnecessarily because you designed the thing to take care of itself.

 

8 hours ago, greenTurtle1134 said:

One major effect of LS is that if something goes wrong, there's a time component; you can't just leave Kerbals sitting forever anymore. That might not be your preference, though. I hope they have an option to turn it off.

See, this is an example of Player A trying to tell Player B how to play his own game.  It irks you that some players leave Kerbals in space for generations and you want to force them to deal with what you imagine should be the consequences, without taking into consideration that their view of Kerbal biology might be totally different from yours, or that they simply enjoy taking a break from the harsh realities of our real world.

Besides, this whole argument is fallacious.  Apart from the Kraken and malfunction mods, nothing ever "goes wrong" in KSP.  Kerbals only get stranded if the player made a major mistake in either the design or the flying of the ship.  But such mistakes already provide enough negative feedback (public embarrassment, having to do a rescue mission, and/or having a guilty conscience) that the player will learn to do better, and won't make this mistake again.  Ultimately, all the player's missions will become totally routine, so LS has zero impact on his gameplay (outside the design phase).

 

 

 

[Angelo Kerman]

You know, with kerbals spewing spores, you might be able to harvest them fo a spore drive...

One of the nice things about Snacks is that you can uninstall it without adverse effects. No kerbals stuck as tourists for instance..

[Geschosskopf]

1 hour ago, Angel-125 said:

You know, with kerbals spewing spores, you might be able to harvest them fo a spore drive...

Back in the days of Kethane, I sometimes carried its infamous Kerbal-processing part, just in case   Never used it, though.  I have only ever run out of fuel a single time, on my very 1st Mun mission.  Doing that rescue taught me never to make such stupid design errors again.  Ever since then, all my stuff has been rigorously tested to work to perfection.  Problems in my missions only occur from bugs, Kerbal insanity introduced for narrative purposes, and BARIS when I'm not being particularly serious to begin with.

 

1 hour ago, Angel-125 said:

One of the nice things about Snacks is that you can uninstall it without adverse effects. No kerbals stuck as tourists for instance..

There are many nice things about Snacks!  I've used every LS mod except Kerbalism many times for many years, and Snacks! is the best hands down.  Simple, low-impact, and generic enough that you can imagine Kerbal biology however you want.

But, like all LS mods, it's ultimately just overhead that never comes into play because I design things properly up front.  So it's just better all around to PRETEND you have LS than actually install it.  When building a colony, just send out enough dummy modules to look the part and move on.

[Speeding Mullet]

On 8/23/2019 at 1:02 PM, Geschosskopf said:

Oh, that's HE-1 PHESTER.  It's not small by any means, barely fitting inside a 3.5m fairing   Still, it was as small as I could make a twin-engine electro-prop plane with the tech available.

Stock props right?  Presuming at this point you have the 2 DLC's.  I do not but interested in a yes or no on whether they are worth it from your perspective...

On 8/23/2019 at 1:02 PM, Geschosskopf said:

but I'd prefer there be an option that turns the whole LS mechanic off

that's fair enough.  I think they will need to figure out a way of the colonies being self sustaining (automated life support) so you don't have to check in on them and they will survive just fine doing their own thing, but then when you want to send a mission there (or get asked to through a contract), its more than just oh look there is that dead base I put there 6 in game years ago, and the same Kerbal is still standing outside the base by the flag.  they need to breathe life into it, just not life support (for those that don't want it).  I think they can totally avoid it being pointless if they make Kerbals do things by themselves in a way that it is interesting to look at, and not just simulated in the back end and never shown in actual movement. 

So for example Kerbals have to mine stuff lets say.  Ok, so we can give them the tools to be completely self sufficient by setting up a mining operation for them, and when you visit the base they are sending trucks backwards and forward.  What about ships?  How funny would it be to check in on a colony and see the colony building their very own supply rockets, or late game their very own Jool 5 mission or Eve rocks ship.  Then if you want to slide in to that for a while you can, through contracts for example to rescue the failed mission to Jool.  If you don't want to bother for a while, then everything just happens in the background and you don't have to engage with it. Its not an ideal compromise (or even possible?!), but its one thing that's been travelling around my head as a bit of an RP'er.  Totally agree though that I don't want to be saddling every rocket with a bunch of snacks just to fulfill a requirement though, but if I didn't have to, I'd be more likely to do so for RPing.

I want my cake and I want to eat it

 

On 8/23/2019 at 1:02 PM, Geschosskopf said:

What do you call "properly" ?  I used to think it meant colonies everywhere but then I realized KSP just can't handle that.  It's fundamentally a game of exploration, not exploitation or expansion, even with mods.  Really, there aren't any good places to settle in the stock system anyway.  And I'm tired of exploring the same places over and over.  That's why I've been using Kopernicus the last few times.

Well I've visited everywhere in the system, but apart from some messing around with bases on Duna, and an Elcano of Duna and Minmus and some other minor excursions,  I have literally only visited each location in what I would deem "point tourism":  Land, plant flag, take off, go home.  Even so I'm tired of "exploring" because there's nothing to do when I get there.  I need to check my excitement obviously, but going back to Duna and exploring extinct lava tubes, or sending a submersible mission to a methane see around a Titan analogue, setting up a floating colony high in Jools Atmosphere would all be brilliant things to do, if once I got there there was a point to doing so, something more interesting than a whole planet made in 1 texture etc.  There almost is in KSP 1 if you use enormous amounts of imagination and take liberties with story lines, but in KSP 2 I think (especially if the Mod community is allowed in at the top) it will be better represented to us as story tellers of our KSP achievements.

On 8/23/2019 at 1:02 PM, Geschosskopf said:

These settings let me play in a way more to my tastes.  They allow me to blow through the really boring initial grind phase but progress slows significantly in the mid-game, which is my favorite part. 

That's awesome, thanks for the tips.  I have always wanted to start a "playthrough" style mission report to try and break out from KSP's designed single mission game, but for the aforementioned reasons never really got to grips with it.  I may well try now.  I think I'll have to figure out a way of reporting less though.  the Von Brauncano I've just done was highly detailed, and a story playthrough wouldn't ever go anywhere if I was doing it in the same style.  Also not sure if I can commit to characters and personalities in the same way that you and others have on here so I might have to be a little more matter of fact in my style.

SM

[Geschosskopf]

7 hours ago, Speeding Mullet said:

Stock props right?  Presuming at this point you have the 2 DLC's.  I do not but interested in a yes or no on whether they are worth it from your perspective...

Yup, I have both.  And they're both worth it.  I mean, they're not too expensive even for an underpaid fireman like me  

TBH, I haven't messed with the MH scenario editor AT ALL.  I wasn't too excited about that at first, but with more thought I can see it being VERY useful for creating non-standard game starts.  Instead of HyperEditing everything out there, with all the time and trouble that entails, you should be able to just plunk it down with the editor.  So I'll be trying stuff like that soon.  Otherwise, MH is a reasonably large parts basket with lots of useful things that reduce dependency on mods.  I find it worth it for the parts alone.  And the Ruski suit.

BG is definitely worth it for all its new features, even if it's a bit rough around the edges.

 

7 hours ago, Speeding Mullet said:

that's fair enough.  I think they will need to figure out a way of the colonies being self sustaining (automated life support) so you don't have to check in on them and they will survive just fine doing their own thing, but then when you want to send a mission there (or get asked to through a contract), its more than just oh look there is that dead base I put there 6 in game years ago, and the same Kerbal is still standing outside the base by the flag.  they need to breathe life into it, just not life support (for those that don't want it).  I think they can totally avoid it being pointless if they make Kerbals do things by themselves in a way that it is interesting to look at, and not just simulated in the back end and never shown in actual movement. 

My money (and hope) is on a system that's highly abstract, like in a 4X space empire game.  You don't have to sweat the life support or personally control all the moving parts.  I envision that starting a colony involves picking a planet that has certain characteristics, and a spot on the planet with suitable resources.  Then you plunk down some starter modules and they take care of themselves.  None of this stuff is playable to start with, it serves as the foundation for later playable stuff.  As your population increases and you add stuff, eventually you create a new KSC you can launch from, and it will likely have home-grown Kerbals you can recruit.  

So basically, interaction with and management of the colony would be very similar to how you develop KSC.  Just as with KSC, you don't have to ensure the roach coaches arrive in the parking lot at lunch time, you just upgrade the buildings.  Yet KSC obviously requires a whole industrial base supplying it, we just don't have to mess with that.  With a KSP2 colony, we will have to build that industrial base, but it will be highly abstract.

At least that's what I hope we end up with.

 

7 hours ago, Speeding Mullet said:

Well I've visited everywhere in the system, but apart from some messing around with bases on Duna, and an Elcano of Duna and Minmus and some other minor excursions,  I have literally only visited each location in what I would deem "point tourism":  Land, plant flag, take off, go home.  Even so I'm tired of "exploring" because there's nothing to do when I get there.  

Well, there are all kinds of things to do.  Consider how @Hotel26 is telling such a cool spy story over merely setting up some relays around Kerbin.  @M4ck's Hanging Gardens base, basically anything @Tw1 has ever done.  Hell, even my own Mo-Henge project.  

 

7 hours ago, Speeding Mullet said:

 Also not sure if I can commit to characters and personalities in the same way that you and others have on here so I might have to be a little more matter of fact in my style.

I don't normally commit to characters.  They crew is in the spotlight during their mission but that's often the last you hear of them  

[Geschosskopf]

EPISODE 9: Ashes to Ashes

Spoiler

 

With its other projects currently in motion still some ways down the road from doing anything, Mission Control decided it was time to send an expedition to Ash, the largest and most distant of the 3 moons of Rhode and the only one not yet visited by Kerbals.  Also, it has glowing lava lakes visible to the naked eye from Rhode so the Scientists were quite interested in it.  It was also a challenge to the Boffins as the 0.3 gravity stretched the current technology of the Circus when it came to bringing the crew home.

The end result was that the 1st Ash Expedition (AE-1) was a 3-ship flotilla generally similar to LBE-1:  a crew lander/return ship, a Science! lab, and a delivery lander for a rover.  However, due to TWR and dV constraints, the details were a bit different.  All the Science! stuff had to be removed from the crew ship.  The deployable stuff was on the lab and the other instruments were on the rover ship.  But this just added a bit of legwork for the crew so no harm done. 

The main difference was in the rover.  It was essentially the same vehicle which had carried Jenmore and Billy-Boblong around the kerbaformers of Lua's Mossy Crater but now had Extra Science! and also some radiators in anticipation of high temperatures.  But most importantly, the fenders were left in their orange primer so glowing lava mud wouldn't be so obvious on them, which the Boffins hoped would help maintain crew morale 

After some laborious prototyping, the Boffins were finally satisfied and soon AE-1 was on its way.  From left to right below, we have AE-1 SCAB (Science-Collecting Ash Base), AE-1 CRAP (Crew Return from Ash--Probably), and AE-1 ARSEFACE Carrier (Ash Rover Seeking Extraordinary Findings And Collecting Exotica).  Each left 1 orbit of Rhode after the previous so arrived at Ash in close but manageable formation.

 

Unofficcially, ARSEFACE's acronym ended with "...Contemplating Elcano" instead of "...Collecting Exotica".  But it didn't take long to see that wouldn't be happening, due to Ash being tide-locked.  Due to its proximity to the edge of Rhode's SOI, nights lasted months so a small, solar-powered rover just couldn't get around before the grog ran out.  Thus, Mission Control picked a landing site in daylight that had all the Ash biomes reasonably near to it.

 

Once all of AE-1 was in Ash orbit, the 1st ship down was AE-1 ARSEFACE.  It had all the Science! instruments so could see if things were safe to land the others.  Also, if it melted, it might hopefully still return some data first.  As it happened, Ash's Lowlands turned out to be quite cold, about  halfway between freezing and absolute zero.

 

So there was nothing for it but to send down AE-1 SCAB and finally AE-1 CRAP with the crew.  Megbrett, now back to toiling away in the bowels of Boffindom as penance for her failure at Lua's Only Wave base, had worked hard on improving landing mission components closer together than LBE-1 had managed and her success was plain to see.  As a result, her sentence was reduced slightly.

 

Then, of course, it was time for the commemorative group photo of all the ships and jolly crew of AE-1, whom we have not yet introduced.  The 7 hands before the mast were, from left to right:

• SMS (promoted to SM3 on landing) Guslie, on his 1st mission.  He was slated to explore in ARSEFACE.
• AM2 Samski, NCOIC of AE-1 due to her command experience during the 1st Lua Landing.  Only artificiersmate in AE-1 so also set up deployed solar panels in addition to keeping the rest of the crew in line.
• BMS (promoted to BM3 on landing) Barbro.  Coxun of AE-1, flying CRAP and driving ARSEFACE.  On 1st mission.
• SMS (promoted to SM3 on landing) Linfrid on her first trip.  To work in the SCAB.
• SM2 Nelford, deputy NCOIC of AE-1, recently returned from LBE-1.  Boss of all the SCAB sciencemates.
• SMSs (promoted to SM3s on landing) Bargard and Lodgar, , both on their 1st missions.  SCAB workerbees.

Note the large slabs of basalt(?) strewn about the surrounding hills in the background.

 

After the above pic, the 4 sciencemates of AE-1 SCAB got to work while Guslie hustled around moving Science! from AE-1 ARSEFACE Carrier to AE-1 CRAP, Barbro got AE-1 ARSEFACE itself powered up, and Samski returned to AE-1 CRAP to keep an eye on everybody else.  Mission Control decided to delay the spam bomb that was deployed Science! as long as possible.  Pretty soon, Barbro reported AE-1 ARSEFACE ready to roll and Guslie was done with his chores, so Guslie boarded AE-1 ARSEFACE and away they went.

Ash has 4 biomes:  Lowlands (where AE-1 had landed), Midlands, Highlands, and [THERMAL HAZARD].  Back at Mission Control, the Scientists had been very curious about the latter and the Boffins had seen it as a challenge,  So everything else could wait.  The import thing was to see just how @hazard-ish the [THERMAL HAZARD] really was.  Thus, AE-1 ARSEFACE headed north up the valley towards a puddle of glowing lava.  Pretty soon, the ground changed from cold gray to luke-warm red.

 

Strangely, however, temperatures observed by AE-1 ARSEFACE didn't match the observed colors.  Despite the ground slowly starting to glow, temperatures remained at the same 160^K initially observed at the landing site.  But not everything in the vicinity was glowing.  Here and there, strange, pointed rock formations sprouting up from the red plain were basalt black.  The shapes of these rocks reminded the Kerbals of one of their favorite snacks, chocolate pets de nonnes, a sort of baked meringue sugar foam usually splatted down on the baking pan with a similar curved, pointed top from the spoon pulling away, so Barbro and Guslie didn't object to investigating one of them.  Who knew, it might be edible!  Unfortunately, it wasn't.

 

The spike was, however, inside the boundaries of the [THERMAL HAZARD] biome so Guslie duly collected the Science!  This did not, however, satisfy the Scientists back home.  They wanted a close look at the lava lake in the middle so ordered AE-1 to continue, although cautiously.  Barbro was concerned but Guslie was confident.  They discussed matters by natural voice between themselves, using their normal inter-worker slanguage instead of the formal "Subservient Worker-Speak" that etiquette required when speaking with members of higher castes.

 

Eventually, AE-1 ARSEFACE reached the shores of the lava lake and found itself truly into an area visible from Rhode.  Here, Guslie finally noticed a change of temperature but it was not what everybody expected.

 

With no temperature registered higher than 180^K and mostly less than that, Mission Control ordered Barbro to keep going.  Things looked much worse than they apparently were but eventually everybody agreed the rover should go no further, at the top of the final slope down into the lava lake.  It was up to Guslie to walk to the lake's edge.  This didn't bother SM3 Guslie who saw nothing to be afraid of.

 

Alas, the heat, which had remained in hiding all this time, suddenly showed itself.

 

Barbro lost no time in doing a bootlegger reverse and flooring AE-1 ARSEFACE out of the glowing terrain by the shortest route possible.  Mission Control thought this a wise course of action and, besides, it was time to get the Science! from other biomes.  What really miffed MIssion Control, however, is that they hadn't been watching Guslie closely but were more focused on the lava lake, so had only caught his incineration in their peripheral vision.  Thus, they had failed to learn something.  There was thus some debate about ordering Barbro out and watching her destruction in detail but somebody remembered she was the only pilot in AE-1 and that AE-1 CRAP had skimped on the autonomous probe core in the interests of weight.  So Barbro was mission-essential (quite unusual for a bosunsmate in the Circus).  Thoughts of tossing one of the other junior sciencemates into the volcano once they'd completed their research were also vetoed on the grounds of preventing general mutiny and its unfortunate consequences to the whole astronaut pool.  So in the end, it was all about getting Barbro back and putting a good face on things.

 

Anyway, Barbro drove AE-1 ARSEFACE as hard as she could up the hill to the west of the lava lake but the rover just wasn't able to reach the Midlands biome.

 

So Barbro eventually returned to AE-1's landing site.  It was a long, uncomfortable trip driven with AE-1 ARSEFACE angled sharply over due to staying as high as possible up on the steep hillsides to avoid the glowing valley floor.  Even though AE-1 ARSEFACE had safely traversed that ground on the way out, everybody now knew the killing heat could come out of nowhere regardless of what the thermometer said, so nobody trusted it anymore.  Once Barbro was reunited with the rest of AE-1, there was the usual display of camaraderie and acknowledgement of mutual loss typical amongst worker-caste Kerbals.  Thus, Mission Control had to step in to restore order.

 

Mission Control went farther than that, too.  Back on Rhode, a somber black rover crewed by nobs drove out to the flagpole and, in full view of its inmates astronauts, had a short memorial ceremony to note Guslie's loss.  After which, the main brace was spliced back home, too, and the sciencemate brainwashing training curriculum adjusted to make Guslie into a sort of saint and instill a desire to emulate his selfless sacrifice for Science! in future sciencemates.

 

Of course, AE-1 was far from over.  There was much Science! still to be done by the jolly crew of AE-1 SCAB and the deployable instruments to be set up eventually.  But all that's warp-over territory of no great interest.  And eventually, AE-1 CRAP has to try to bring the 6 surviving Kerbals (and, more to the point, the Science!) back home.  In the meantime, more interesting things will surely happen.

 

Tune in next time for more of the slow spiral into damnation.

Edited September 15, 2019 by Geschosskopf

[KAL 9000]

IT HAS RETURNED

[Geschosskopf]

4 hours ago, KAL 9000 said:

IT HAS RETURNED

I dunno.  It took me 10 episodes (including the 0th intro piece) to kill my 1st Kerbal, although 2 did get thrown into the oubliette somewhat earlier.  That's hardly up to Circus standards  

[fulgur]

Ah well, you can always have a massacre later.

[Geschosskopf]

10 hours ago, fulgur said:

Ah well, you can always have a massacre later.

That could happen, although I do try to avoid such things.  The higher castes in Circus management naturally view all workers as expendable but they also see astronauts as an investment (all the training, space suits, rations, etc.), which makes them slightly less expendable than normal.  At least once they get a few stars.

So generally, my Kerbals mostly die as deliberate plot devices, due to BARIS (which I'm not using in this game cuz it wasn't up to date), or the Kraken.  Guslie was one of the rare operational accidents.  Mission Control often requires Kerbals to do dangerous things (atmospheric EVAs, climbing the giant kerbaformer on Lua, etc.) but the Kerbals almost always get away with them.  Besides, it's their job.  The Kerbal scientific method has not evolved much beyond "poke the hornet nest with a stick and see what happens", and it's better that semi-expendable workers do the poking rather than important Scientists.

To be honest, I was quite surprised that Guslie died, which is why I didn't get a pic of him popping.  The thermometer was reading very cold temps, no heat bars were showing on anything, and Guslie had been standing there for 30 seconds or so.  I took that shot of him in front of the rover with the focus on the rover and was in the process of switching back to Guslie and reorienting the camera when he popped with no warning.  Oh well, the mills of Science! need to be lubed occasionally with Kerbal grease.

[KAL 9000]

You know what would be a perfect planet pack for the next Circus series? Whirligig World. 

Challenging? Check.

Actual reason for the Kerbals to live underground? Check. 

Lots of planets to explore? Check.

Beautiful visuals? Check. 

[Geschosskopf]

8 hours ago, KAL 9000 said:

You know what would be a perfect planet pack for the next Circus series? Whirligig World. 

Yes, I totally agree.  I regret not having known of its existence until a few weeks ago or I'd have done it long since.  I read A Mission of Gravity back in the 70s and it's been one of my favorite SF (as opposed to sci-fi--an important distinction) books ever since.  Way back when mod systems 1st started appearing (which I think was even before Kopernicus), I requested a Mesklin-analog and have been hoping one would come along ever since.  But every time when I've started a new game and searched for lists of Kopernicus-capable mods (many times), I never saw Whirligig   @GregroxMun needs to advertise it more.

So, once I finally learned of it, it was my intention to do that system for my next game.  But about a week after that, KSP2 was announced with a release scheduled for about 6 months from now.  Thus, I'm thinking Beyond Hope Home will be my last hurrah in KSP1, unless KSP2 totally sucks (which is entirely possible--we'll have to see).

But assuming KSP2 is sufficiently better than KSP1 to pull me in, most modders will certainly feel the same way.  And it's likely we'll all only have time to deal with 1 or the other, so that will be KSP2.  In this scenario, I see KSP1 mod support drying up and blowing away as modders move to KSP2.  and for Whirligig to appear in KSP2 fairly soon.  Thus, my future in KSP would be mapped out.  Go as far as I can with Beyond Hope Home prior to KSP2, do a game or 2 in the stock KSP2 universe, then do Whirligig in KSP2.

[Whirligig Girl]

On 9/5/2019 at 10:38 PM, Geschosskopf said:

Yes, I totally agree.  I regret not having known of its existence until a few weeks ago or I'd have done it long since.  I read A Mission of Gravity back in the 70s and it's been one of my favorite SF (as opposed to sci-fi--an important distinction) books ever since.  Way back when mod systems 1st started appearing (which I think was even before Kopernicus), I requested a Mesklin-analog and have been hoping one would come along ever since.  But every time when I've started a new game and searched for lists of Kopernicus-capable mods (many times), I never saw Whirligig   @GregroxMun needs to advertise it more.

So, once I finally learned of it, it was my intention to do that system for my next game.  But about a week after that, KSP2 was announced with a release scheduled for about 6 months from now.  Thus, I'm thinking Beyond Hope Home will be my last hurrah in KSP1, unless KSP2 totally sucks (which is entirely possible--we'll have to see).

But assuming KSP2 is sufficiently better than KSP1 to pull me in, most modders will certainly feel the same way.  And it's likely we'll all only have time to deal with 1 or the other, so that will be KSP2.  In this scenario, I see KSP1 mod support drying up and blowing away as modders move to KSP2.  and for Whirligig to appear in KSP2 fairly soon.  Thus, my future in KSP would be mapped out.  Go as far as I can with Beyond Hope Home prior to KSP2, do a game or 2 in the stock KSP2 universe, then do Whirligig in KSP2.

You could just have your Beyond Home space program teleport to Mesbin or start from scratch please

Whirligig World will probably be in KSP2, though.

[Geschosskopf]

4 hours ago, GregroxMun said:

You could just have your Beyond Home space program teleport to Mesbin or start from scratch please

Whirligig World will probably be in KSP2, though.

Well, I'm rather too invested in Beyond Hope Home to switch now.  Besides, this system deserves a bit of a publicity.

I will anxiously await Whirligig's appearance in KSP2.  Assuming that's actually worth playing, or course.  I assume our tastes are similar enough that we'll both feel the same way about it.  But I'm not really in much doubt that KSP2 will be better in every way, not least for the advertised feature of making life easier for modders.  I'm already anticipating the numerous gratuitous explosions in the early game due to parachutes not working at home