[New] Space Launch System / Orion Discussion Thread

[Flavio hc16]

https://spacenews.com/nasa-takes-gateway-off-the-critical-path-for-2024-lunar-return/

"A revised plan for returning astronauts to the surface of the moon by 2024 will no longer rely on the use of a lunar Gateway"

 

YES YES YEEEEEES

[sh1pman]

1 hour ago, Flavio hc16 said:

https://spacenews.com/nasa-takes-gateway-off-the-critical-path-for-2024-lunar-return/

"A revised plan for returning astronauts to the surface of the moon by 2024 will no longer rely on the use of a lunar Gateway"

 

YES YES YEEEEEES

This line perfectly describes this whole endeavor:

Quote

We’ve never done that before, so we’d like to try to avoid doing things we’ve never done before.”

 

[sh1pman]

1. Design an obscenely expensive rocket with with unclear purpose.

2. Come up with payloads to justify that rocket's existence.

3. Start a huge and exciting project based around that rocket and its payloads.

4. Realize that you don't need those payloads for your project.

5. Realize that your project is now just a redo of a previous project, but with suboptimal rocket and spacecraft, with the vast majority of contracts given to a single corp with a recent history of poor performance on space-related projects.

<you are here>

[Flavio hc16]

18 minutes ago, sh1pman said:

1. Design an obscenely expensive rocket with with unclear purpose.

2. Come up with payloads to justify that rocket's existence.

3. Start a huge and exciting project based around that rocket and its payloads.

4. Realize that you don't need those payloads for your project.

5. Realize that your project is now just a redo of a previous project, but with suboptimal rocket and spacecraft, with the vast majority of contracts given to a single corp with a recent history of poor performance on space-related projects.

<you are here>

6. Profitt? ( of the aforementioned  company)

[Codraroll]

2 hours ago, Flavio hc16 said:

6. Profitt? ( of the aforementioned  company)

More like:
6A. The corp awards you with a cushy board-member position where you're paid six figures to attend two rubber-stamp meetings annually.

6B. Profit.

[kerbiloid]

Now this today post explains a lot...

 

 

[tater]

 

[Flavio hc16]

54 minutes ago, tater said:

 

meh....

[tater]

Wanna take bets on if the total cost of 2X MLS for SLS cost more than SS total dev costs?

[tater]

Heheh:

 

[tater]

Green Run to be suspended for at least a few weeks, apparently. That likely pushes the launch out as I doubt they have schedule margin.

[jadebenn]

On 3/17/2020 at 11:43 AM, tater said:

Wanna take bets on if the total cost of 2X MLS for SLS cost more than SS total dev costs?

I'll take you on. Not that I think there's any way we can verify it with how secretive SpaceX is with their financials, though.

Edited March 24, 2020 by jadebenn

[tater]

7 minutes ago, jadebenn said:

I'll take you on. Not that I think there's any way we can verify it with how secretive SpaceX is with their financials, though.

True, but if it's even in the same order of magnitude it's an epic fail.

[jadebenn]

In other news:
Study recommends minimizing elements for Artemis lunar lander

The study in question was actually posted on /r/SpaceLaunchSystem a few months back. Very hard to link directly, though. The site it's on doesn't like you doing that.

Aerojet's top pick was a bit different from Boeing's current proposal in that it farms out the ascent module to a CLV and uses the SLS Block 1B solely for the descent module. In other words, it's even more gigantic than the modern Boeing proposal - essentially on-par with Altair in scale. Fairly similar to a 2018 Boeing lander proposal, though, which is unfortunately paywalled.

The 2018 design proposal had a crew capacity of 4 and a surface stay of 14 days (so essentially 9 Apollo 17s worth of exploration per-mission). From what I've heard, the modern design has a crew capacity of 3 and a surface stay of 7 days (so only about 3 Apollo 17s worth by comparison), likely due to the downgrade required to fit within the payload limits of early Block 1B instead of late Block 1B/Block 2. The modern proposal definitely seems to come from the same design lineage as the 2018 proposal, however. There's quite a bit of visual resemblance between them.

Render of the 2018 proposal:

Edited March 24, 2020 by jadebenn

[tater]

^^^I posted that same image a couple years ago in the SSTU thread I think.

Hypergolics have always made more sense because of timing constraints (better to pre-deploy the lander elements, IMO).

Altair-like vehicles (assuming EOR) make sense, since Artemis is stuck with a Constellation spacecraft (Orion), and Constellation-like infrastructure (SLS). Except that they are using the wrong rocket to launch Orion (Ares 1 was dumb, IMO, but some non-SLS option for the crew vehicle launch still makes the most sense under the assumption that you could get enough to LEO to move the required mass to TLI (with Orion this is probably on the order of 70 tons).

[kerbiloid]

Spoiler

The first thought was:
"They are going to use springs as landing legs, to jump across the Moon. So cute, never seen this since cartoons about robots."

 

[wumpus]

11 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

  Hide contents

The first thought was:
"They are going to use springs as landing legs, to jump across the Moon. So cute, never seen this since cartoons about robots."

 

Done plenty of times on Mars with airbag landings.

[kerbiloid]

5 hours ago, wumpus said:

Done plenty of times on Mars with airbag landings.

Jumping, not rolling.

[Space Nerd]

My opinion:

1.Most of the problem with SLS is political, so I'll just accept that.

2.SLS is a very Kerbal and cool rocket, so I really want to see it fly.

3.I hope the gateway will be built eventually, because a space station in lunar orbit is also very cool.

4.I REALLY want to see human landing on the moon, no matter how much the program costs.(Some of you may think SpaceX can do this cheaper, quicker, and better, but I just love SLS.)

Edited March 27, 2020 by Space Nerd

[StrandedonEarth]

 

[Nightside]

11 hours ago, StrandedonEarth said:

 

Is the rocket infested with Pokémon?

[tater]

 

[Flavio hc16]

1 hour ago, tater said:

 

with the EUS the SLS might have " a tiny, tiny,tiny, bit of sense, not too much thoug

[tater]

14 minutes ago, Flavio hc16 said:

with the EUS the SLS might have " a tiny, tiny,tiny, bit of sense, not too much thoug

The rocket pictures in the article, Block 1B Cargo is the only SLS they ever should have built (alt: Block 2 Cargo). No crew rating—big, dumb rocket. Putting people on top of SLS was stupid from the start.

[jadebenn]

You guys do realize what this news implies about the selection of the HLS lander, right?