Paul Kingtiger Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 KSP uses SI units for lots of measurements, except resources, which use poorly defined units, the worst examples being liquid fuel, oxidizer and electric charge. For a game with so much realisum and educational potential this seems like a missed trick. It also makes it harder for modders to balance their stuff (very noticeable with historical mods). Have resource units been discussed yet and will KSP 2 use SI units for everything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DStaal Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 I don't think it's been mentioned yet. But switching to SI units would make sense - hopefully the same 1L as CRP, which could then be ported over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razark Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 I'd love to see the option of switching between them. Flying a plane with an airspeed in anything other than knots and an altitude in anything other than feet just feels wrong to me. However, I've become quite accustomed to SI in other situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shdwlrd Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) Thanks to KSP I've gotten used to using SI. But the velocity could use a switch to something easier to comprehend like KPH, MPH, Knots. Edited October 30, 2019 by shdwlrd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoMrBond Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 Oh heck yes, full SI please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airtrafficcontroller Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 The way that SpeedUnitAnex mod work would be perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 UI should be SI-only. They could put a switch in airplane IVAs to toggle displays between knots and km/h (Russian style). Likewise altitude, Russian aircraft tend to have altimeters both in meters and feet, either switchable or on two separate instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DStaal Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 I wouldn't mind knots - but I really think they should be done correctly: as 1/60th of a degree of latitude per hour. Which means it changes depending on which planet you're on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandaman Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 5 hours ago, DStaal said: I wouldn't mind knots - but I really think they should be done correctly: as 1/60th of a degree of latitude per hour. Which means it changes depending on which planet you're on... That would just be confusing, and dangerous. On a planet twice the circumference you would be moving twice as fast as you think you are, not very friendly when trying to land safely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealKerbal3x Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 Please, full SI. None of this archaic imperial measurement business either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 7 hours ago, DStaal said: I wouldn't mind knots - but I really think they should be done correctly: as 1/60th of a degree of latitude per hour. Which means it changes depending on which planet you're on... Actually, knots are defined relative to Earth. So it's more the case of them being pretty much useless elsewhere. Including on Kerbin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoidSquid Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) On 10/30/2019 at 12:51 AM, razark said: Flying a plane with an airspeed in anything other than knots and an altitude in anything other than feet just feels wrong to me For me, just the opposite, as per my understanding, the use of these units is historically based, isn't it? I find it very odd that I always have to convert ft in m, kn in km/h. Yes, I grew up in continental Europe with the SI system, which makes way more sense to me than imperial units. Or take temperature, Celsius vs. Fahrenheit, I find the Celsius scala way more intuitive, 0 for water freezing, 100 for water boiling. Anyway, you might be interested in this mod: Edited October 31, 2019 by VoidSquid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DStaal Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 hour ago, VoidSquid said: For me, just the opposite, as per my understanding, the use of these units is historically based, isn't it? Knots get used because for large-scale navigation they make life easy: 60 knots per hour means one degree per hour on the map. For ships and planes where you're working with continental-scale maps and no landmarks, it makes sense. 6 hours ago, pandaman said: That would just be confusing, and dangerous. On a planet twice the circumference you would be moving twice as fast as you think you are, not very friendly when trying to land safely. Yes and no - what you'd have to remember is that the two scales are measuring different things, and should be used differently. Meters per second measures changes in distance, knots measures changes in position. And I'd want to be able to land in Meters per second - it's the appropriate measurement for that. (You could actually argue that if you're landing vertically, you're moving at 0 knots, as it's defined as a section of a great circle...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoidSquid Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, DStaal said: 60 knots per hour means one degree per hour on the map Only for a latitude of zero degrees and only for pure eastward/westward movement, neither is true for almost all flights/shipping routes, is it? Edited October 31, 2019 by VoidSquid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DStaal Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 47 minutes ago, VoidSquid said: Only for a latitude of zero degrees and only for pure eastward/westward movement, neither is true for almost all flights/shipping routes, is it? I'll admit that angled movements will take some more work to deal with. (As always.) For the latitude... Until you get to extreme latitudes, it's true to within the margin of error when doing navigation by hand, I think. (And if you aren't doing navigation by hand, you don't care what units the computer is working in - you care about the output. So it's mostly used for back-up navigation at this point.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandaman Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 For me a standard, common, set of measures is best... km, kg, litres, m/sec... Etc. Everyone understands and can relate to them. Ok m/sec is a bit different to what i imagine most of us use regularly, but it is a constant that we can relate to with a little practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shdwlrd Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 16 minutes ago, pandaman said: Everyone understands and can relate to them. Ok m/sec is a bit different to what i imagine most of us use regularly, but it is a constant that we can relate to with a little practice. No, anyone who lives in the US most likely won't understand SI. Usually only if someone works in a profession that has to deal converting imperial units to SI or vice versa, or using SI exclusively would understand it. (One would hope anyway.) Yes, there are some to choose to learn SI for personal interests, but that is far and few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airtrafficcontroller Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 If KSP2 will have localization they need to include all kind of measurements as well but if I have to choose just one I would stick to the units used in science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoidSquid Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 27 minutes ago, shdwlrd said: No, anyone who lives in the US most likely won't understand SI Yeah, it's a question what you grew up with, what you're used to, what is practical for you. Me for example, I still stick with Calorie, not Joule (it's what I grew up with), and for practical reasons, most of the time I use km/h, not m/s (practical reasons). Old habits die hard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shdwlrd Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 1 hour ago, airtrafficcontroller said: If KSP2 will have localization they need to include all kind of measurements as well Not necessarily, but it would be nice if they did have stock options to use other UOM's, but not truly necessary. If star theory doesn't add any options, I'm sure a modder will add them at some point anyway. There are several mods that directly, or indirectly change SI to other UOM's, so I can see it happening. 1 hour ago, VoidSquid said: Yeah, it's a question what you grew up with, what you're used to, what is practical for you. Yes, that is very true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandaman Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) Yes, it is very much what you grow up with. Options to use other measurement systems would be good though. I grew up, and still am, in UK. So I am used to both imperial and metric, but metric is far more logical. When we changed to decimal currency, from our l,s,d system, in 1971 a lot of the older generation found it quite confusing, even though decimal is much simpler. Edited October 31, 2019 by pandaman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swjr-swis Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 On 10/29/2019 at 9:07 PM, Paul Kingtiger said: realisum Everyone going on about millimeters and pints. I just upvote for the realisum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul23 Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 (edited) On 10/29/2019 at 9:07 PM, Paul Kingtiger said: KSP uses SI units for lots of measurements, except resources, which use poorly defined units, the worst examples being liquid fuel, oxidizer and electric charge. For a game with so much realisum and educational potential this seems like a missed trick. It also makes it harder for modders to balance their stuff (very noticeable with historical mods). Have resource units been discussed yet and will KSP 2 use SI units for everything? First of all: we already have a unit for fuel: it's measured in weight. And since we have only a single fuel source it is "enough". (Just like water: if I say I have 1 kg water, it's also 1 liter/cubic decimeter). In rocket engineering the fuel weight is much more important than volume. The "problem" is, fuel isn't well defined. In reality there are lots of fuel sources, with vastly different properties. And lots of engine designs catering to the specific fuel, and different ways to store them (pressurized, cryogenic, chemically bound to other materials...). So unless ksp moves away from the lego idea and into procedural generated rockets, it doesn't make sense to put a unit on fuel. It's impossible to compare to reality anyways. On top of that: it would show the imbalance in parts: some parts can right now store so much more fuel than others that either the majority of the parts would have tanks that are just 1/2th of the actual in game volume. Or some tanks (oscar...) would store more fuel than the volume of the tank itself. 6 hours ago, shdwlrd said: No, anyone who lives in the US most likely won't understand SI. Usually only if someone works in a profession that has to deal converting imperial units to SI or vice versa, or using SI exclusively would understand it. (One would hope anyway.) Yes, there are some to choose to learn SI for personal interests, but that is far and few. The language of engineering and science is SI though. If you want *any* form of realism you use a metric system: The US (normally) also uses metric for space engineering.. Only some offsite workers tend to crash landers due to the wrong unit system in their software. Edited October 31, 2019 by paul23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoidSquid Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 A wonderful video, thanks a lot, @paul23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shdwlrd Posted October 31, 2019 Share Posted October 31, 2019 32 minutes ago, paul23 said: The language of engineering and science is SI though. If you want *any* form of realism you use a metric system: The US (normally) also uses metric for space engineering.. Only some offsite workers tend to crash landers due to the wrong unit system in their software. Isn't SI the same as the metric system? I think you missed my point. There are many industries in the US that have to deal with SI outside of engineering and science. One off the top of my head is international shipping of goods. Having to convert weights, volumes, lengths for SI to imperial and vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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