How to create a Mun capable ship

[Mikenike]

What do you guys use for Mun capable ships? I need to get more science points, and I need contract money, so I need ideas. Stock KSP, no mods, console edition. Please help

[Retro Starship]

I would make one that looks like the Eagle Lunar lander, but I have not done a Mun landing yet. I just love Grumman's design of that beast for the Apollo program.

[Mikenike]

Ok

[Pecan]

As soon as you have FL-T200 fuel tank you have everything you need to go to Mun.  Do you have any more specific problem with that?

[Vanamonde]

Thread moved to Gameplay Questions, since it's seeking help rather than offering. 

Good luck.

[Signo]

I checked my pic "archives" and I found this pretty low tech "hopper" - it was meant to visit at least 3 different biomes in a single trip.

It was 1.3 something but I am pretty sure the concept still works perfectly.

You do not really need solars, just keep a full battery "closed" for your maneuver needs, Jeb does not need heating because he laughs at outer space. 

You can substitute "sparks" on the lander with a single terrier.

You do not really need maneuver nodes to go to Mun, just burn prograde 800 to 900 m/s when you see Mun rising during your orbit so you may save the tracking station upgrade for later.

No legs to save on weight, but you need to be careful during landings, of course. The smaller ones will however be enough for such a small weight.

[Scarecrow]

When designing a new Mun capable ship, I start at the last stage and work back.  If it's a single stage lander that is also going to return my Kerbals to Kerbin, I make sure it has enough dV to de-orbit from a Munar orbit, land, return to Munar orbit and then return to Kerbin.

Once I have that bit sorted, my next step is usually an intermediate stage that will complete a circular orbit at Kerbin, perform the Munar injection burn, and then complete orbit capture at the Mun.

The final stage is the bit that performs the take off from the pad and at least pushes the craft into a sub-orbital flight with an apo around 80km or better.

Edited November 10, 2019 by Scarecrow

[Pecan]

• As a general rule build three rockets, not one: launch vehicle, transfer vehicle, mission vehicle/lander (then join them together)
• Removing monopropellant from command pods can save a significant amount of mass
• Eating all the snacks doesn't

[Mikenike]

On 11/8/2019 at 6:35 PM, Pecan said:

As soon as you have FL-T200 fuel tank you have everything you need to go to Mun.  Do you have any more specific problem with that?

Yes, I haven’t gone anywhere yet... all types of help needed. Thank you.

[Streetwind]

Using the editor's delta-V readout in the staging list, try to construct a spacecraft with at least 6200m/s, displayed in vacuum mode. If you do not know how to toggle that: familiarize yourself with the toolbar buttons in the bottom right.

6200m/s will allow you to land once and return to Kerbin, with a modicum of spare fuel. If you really flew it well, you could do it in 6000m/s easily. However, if you are a beginner, it's probably better if you err on the side of caution, and go higher, to something like 6500m/s. Or even 7000 for your very first trip.

If you want to visit multiple biomes by hopping across the surface, you must bring significantly more. Budget at least 800m/s for each hop. But frankly, I'd avise you to keep it simple for now. Trying to hop around is an easy way to turn an already successful landing into a sudden rescue mission candidate. Just do a single landing and return first. i mean... have you even thought about how one returns to Kerbin from the Mun, anyway? That's a mighty uncomfortable question to realize you never considered when you limped back into Mun orbit on a fuel tank that's a few fumes short of empty...   Better to have more than enough rather than less than you need. (Also, hint: maneuver nodes are your friend.)

[Signo]

2 hours ago, Streetwind said:

Trying to hop around is an easy way to turn an already successful landing into a sudden rescue mission candidate.

You can simply "walk" around if you land at the right place. You can easily gather the surface samples and the reports for "midlands", "Highlands", "east farside crater" and "canyons" with a single landing, they are well within a reasonable jetpack trip. Less risky, maybe sometimes a little boring.

[Fierce Wolf]

1) Put a capsule with a decoupler below and a parachute on top. This is your return capsule (so your kerbonaut lives after the trip)

2) Under 1) put some a fuel tank and 4 surrounding it. Under them attach a rocket engine like reliant, or something better if you have. Somewhere in between place batteries, solar panels and 1 or 2 antennas. Put the science stuff attached to the capsule, ignore the Science junior for now until you are more experienced. Finally, some landing legs for this monster. Overall you should have 2200 to 2500 deltaV by now. This is your lander++ because it can also go back to Kerbin by itself, avoiding docking in orbit.

3) A BIG rocket. Put a big decoupler below the lander, and the meanest and bad-asser fuel tank you have under it. Feel free to experiment with solid fuel rockets too (if you do so, remember to attach them via decouplers so you can get rid of them after burning). This is your orbital vehicle,  this rocket alone should have between 3800 and 4200 DeltaV to go to orbit and a bit more, about half-way the needed to Mun.

 

 

Extras:

a) Add a science container on top of the capsule, under the parachute. That way you can do experiments and save the results there, even a pilot can do it! And leave the science stuff on ground, or wherever.

b) If you are green in the atmospheric reentry subject, right under the capsule place a heat shield, it will save your cheeks.

c) If you have any, reaction wheels are super useful. Otherwise place a few (4 on top, 4 on bottom) monopropellant thrusters to rotate your craft.

d) more Delta V doesn't hurt.

e) Have fun!

 

[Fenceingmadman]

On 11/11/2019 at 2:04 PM, Fierce Wolf said:

1) Put a capsule with a decoupler below and a parachute on top. This is your return capsule (so your kerbonaut lives after the trip)

2) Under 1) put some a fuel tank and 4 surrounding it. Under them attach a rocket engine like reliant, or something better if you have. Somewhere in between place batteries, solar panels and 1 or 2 antennas. Put the science stuff attached to the capsule, ignore the Science junior for now until you are more experienced. Finally, some landing legs for this monster. Overall you should have 2200 to 2500 deltaV by now. This is your lander++ because it can also go back to Kerbin by itself, avoiding docking in orbit.

3) A BIG rocket. Put a big decoupler below the lander, and the meanest and bad-asser fuel tank you have under it. Feel free to experiment with solid fuel rockets too (if you do so, remember to attach them via decouplers so you can get rid of them after burning). This is your orbital vehicle,  this rocket alone should have between 3800 and 4200 DeltaV to go to orbit and a bit more, about half-way the needed to Mun.

 

 

Extras:

a) Add a science container on top of the capsule, under the parachute. That way you can do experiments and save the results there, even a pilot can do it! And leave the science stuff on ground, or wherever.

b) If you are green in the atmospheric reentry subject, right under the capsule place a heat shield, it will save your cheeks.

c) If you have any, reaction wheels are super useful. Otherwise place a few (4 on top, 4 on bottom) monopropellant thrusters to rotate your craft.

d) more Delta V doesn't hurt.

e) Have fun!

 

This is good but recovery gets way more science so adding a 1.25 m service bay under the capsule but above the heat shield with a few experiments in it is very helpful. And adds very little weight hope this helps!

[Streetwind]

4 hours ago, Fenceingmadman said:

adding a 1.25 m service bay under the capsule but above the heat shield with a few experiments in it is very helpful.

Bonus tip:

The service bay has very high heat tolerances. As long as you operate within Kerbin's SoI, and did not crank up your heating in the difficulty settings, you do not need a heatshield at all if you have a service bay on the bottom.

[RizzoTheRat]

My early game Mun landers go for a single landing, with the pilot taking the science from the experiments so no need to bring them back to Kerbin.  So usually something like:

Re-entry stage - Single seat capsule with a parachute.  No need for a heatshield to re-enter kerbin from the Mun, just set a Pe of about 30-40km and you'll be fine.

Return stage - Decoupler below the above with a fuel tank and engine with enough dV to launch from the mun and return to Kerbin (about 800-900m/s I think).  I usually use the Terrier engine here.  I usually put the science on this stage just keep the craft symmetrical.  You also need a battery or solar panel on this stage or the one above.  Dump this stage just before re-entry.

Transfer and landing stage - 3 tanks on radial couplers with fuel pipes if you have them (or transfer fuel manually if you don't), aerodynamic nose cones for launch if you've not got faring's yet, and landing legs on the tanks.  This gives a nice wide stance for landing on slopes, and lets you jettison the weight when you launch from the Mun.  Needs enough dV to get from low Kerbin Orbit to landing on the Mun.

Something like this (I'm also using KOS and life support so ignore the extra window and a couple of extra components).

Then you just need a rocket big enough to put the whole lot in to low kerbin orbit.

[The disaster]

Target the moon wait until its above you then shoot up that's how I did my first landing

[Mikenike]

On 11/11/2019 at 9:01 AM, Streetwind said:

Using the editor's delta-V readout in the staging list, try to construct a spacecraft with at least 6200m/s, displayed in vacuum mode. If you do not know how to toggle that: familiarize yourself with the toolbar buttons in the bottom right.

6200m/s will allow you to land once and return to Kerbin, with a modicum of spare fuel. If you really flew it well, you could do it in 6000m/s easily. However, if you are a beginner, it's probably better if you err on the side of caution, and go higher, to something like 6500m/s. Or even 7000 for your very first trip.

If you want to visit multiple biomes by hopping across the surface, you must bring significantly more. Budget at least 800m/s for each hop. But frankly, I'd avise you to keep it simple for now. Trying to hop around is an easy way to turn an already successful landing into a sudden rescue mission candidate. Just do a single landing and return first. i mean... have you even thought about how one returns to Kerbin from the Mun, anyway? That's a mighty uncomfortable question to realize you never considered when you limped back into Mun orbit on a fuel tank that's a few fumes short of empty...   Better to have more than enough rather than less than you need. (Also, hint: maneuver nodes are your friend.)

Thank you, but I am on Xbox EE, and we sadly do not have delta v read outs.

[paul23]

34 minutes ago, Mikenike said:

Thank you, but I am on Xbox EE, and we sadly do not have delta v read outs.

Well then you ought to calculate it yourself, each engine has a given Isp, and since you chiefly just use a single (type) of engine:

 

delta-V = Isp * 9.81 * ln(mass_at_start / mass_fuel). Or even easier so you can just read numbers in the VAB: delta-V = Isp * 9.81 * ln(mass_at_start / (mass_at_start - mass_at_start_when_fuel_removed))

[drpunk]

1 hour ago, Mikenike said:

Thank you, but I am on Xbox EE, and we sadly do not have delta v read outs.

We should be getting that on Thursday...

Quote

Coupled with the Expansion, Kerbal Space Program Enhanced Edition is getting a content-filled console-optimized update that will contain long-requested features like the Improved Burn Time Indicator, the Delta-v per Stage and Delta-v Tool App, an Altitude toggle function to the Altimeter, Axis Group binding, dozens of Part revamps, as well as performance improvements, bug fixes, and more!

From -> https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/189807-the-breaking-ground-expansion-is-coming-to-consoles/

#excited

 

[AHHans]

33 minutes ago, paul23 said:

delta-V = Isp * 9.81 * ln(mass_at_start / mass_fuel)

Errr... the correct equation is: delta-V = Isp * 9.81 * ln(mass_at_start / mass_at_end)
See: Tsiolkovsky rocket equation on Wikipedia.

 

[paul23]

oops.