[1.12+] Less Real Than Real(ism) - RP-1 With Less 'R' [v2.0.6]

[boribori]

@Pehvbot I had some more feedback as well
 

1. The latest LRTR (v1.4) overwrites the config file, which is fine but maybe there should be a warning for those who edited it.
2. There are a lot of empty Tech Tree nodes and the Hide Empty Tech Tree  Nodes mod seems to break stuff. Did you have a plan for that? Is there a way to hide them without breaking stuff? Or do you want to move stuff around to fill them? I would prefer the latter.
3. There are no available Strategies in the Administration building, is that as intended?
4. Dmagic Orbital Science doesn't seem compatible with Kerbalism while it is supposed to be (according to this https://github.com/Kerbalism/Kerbalism/wiki/Home-~-Mod-Support). Is that a Kerbalism or LRTR issue?

 

[Pehvbot]

7 hours ago, boribori said:

@Pehvbot I had some more feedback as well
 

1. The latest LRTR (v1.4) overwrites the config file, which is fine but maybe there should be a warning for those who edited it.
2. There are a lot of empty Tech Tree nodes and the Hide Empty Tech Tree  Nodes mod seems to break stuff. Did you have a plan for that? Is there a way to hide them without breaking stuff? Or do you want to move stuff around to fill them? I would prefer the latter.
3. There are no available Strategies in the Administration building, is that as intended?
4. Dmagic Orbital Science doesn't seem compatible with Kerbalism while it is supposed to be (according to this https://github.com/Kerbalism/Kerbalism/wiki/Home-~-Mod-Support). Is that a Kerbalism or LRTR issue?

 

1. I’m guessing the config file was overwritten because the new one added a new config element.  I never thought about this problem.  I’ll be sure to warn folks if I do that again. 

2. The tech tree was lifted directly from RP-1 and is really designed for more parts than a stock game. In my ‘head canon’ I thought of the empty nodes as just necessary development that didn’t lead to manufactured parts.  I’ll take a look at the mod to see if it just needs to understand the RP-1 tree. 

3. That was lifted directly from RP-1 as well. I never use them so I never thought about it. It would be pretty easy to add a config setting to enable it.

4.  It’s a LRTR issue.  Because it uses the RP-1 science model it basically nukes all other science parts.  The custom KerbalismConfig is only set to understand the LRTR experiments.  It is possible to disable the science stuff in the config file but that then breaks the custom KerbalismConfig.  I Can’t think of an elegant solution.

Again thank you for the feedback. It helps quite a bit.

[boribori]

On 10/31/2020 at 6:10 AM, Pehvbot said:

4.  It’s a LRTR issue.  Because it uses the RP-1 science model it basically nukes all other science parts.  The custom KerbalismConfig is only set to understand the LRTR experiments.  It is possible to disable the science stuff in the config file but that then breaks the custom KerbalismConfig.  I Can’t think of an elegant solution.

Ah, I had no clue it was the RP-1 science model, I though it was from Kerbalism. That explains why the Kerbalism patches for other mods also don't do anything. I'll have a look when I find the time. Thanks!

[Pehvbot]

On 11/2/2020 at 2:54 AM, boribori said:

Ah, I had no clue it was the RP-1 science model, I though it was from Kerbalism. That explains why the Kerbalism patches for other mods also don't do anything. I'll have a look when I find the time. Thanks!

This is just a guess, but I *think* you could extract the stock KerbalismConfig/System/ScienceRework directory and replace the /System/Science folder in the LRTR config.  You just need to disable the Science node in the LRTR/config.cfg file.  You will also need to dig through the /Support directory to find and science mods you are using.  There's a non-zero chance you add in some glitches if you include mods that have both science parts and other types of parts.  Use at your own risk!

[Pehvbot]

Version 1.5 has been released.  This version adds preliminary support for KSP 1.11.  It also adds support for Procedural Wings and the Waterfall engine effects mod

https://github.com/pehvbot/LRTR/releases/tag/v1.5

In addition it rebalances the 'Aeronautics' branch of the tech tree, making X-Planes more viable in early game.

EDIT:  I should add Waterfall requires the Restock config since all it does is properly scale the effects for rescaled parts.

Edited December 19, 2020 by Pehvbot

[mateusviccari]

Shouldn't Community tech tree be a required dependency? Because it's not listed and I only got the tech tree working after I installed it

[Pehvbot]

11 minutes ago, mateusviccari said:

Shouldn't Community tech tree be a required dependency? Because it's not listed and I only got the tech tree working after I installed it

It's actually the opposite.  The RP-1 tech tree is completely bespoke and gets disabled by having Community Tech Tree installed so folks who want to use a different tech tree can do that.

However I just ran into the problem you described testing the v1.5 on a clean 1.11 install.  It worked when I created the update and  strangely it seems to have fixed itself after rebuilding the Module Manager cache.  I'm not sure why it broke or why it is working now.  I need to do some more digging on this. 

I'll respond as soon as I get a stable version.

 

[hemeac]

@Pehvbot, I was just going through your cfg as I saw the previous post and I think the issue is that you are trying to patch a tree that doesn't exist.  This is functionally what I have been doing with my tree and seems to be working :

@TechTree:NEEDS[LRTRTechTree]:FOR[zLRTR] {
	!RDNode,* {}
}

@TechTree:AFTER[zLRTR]:NEEDS[LRTRTechTree]
{
... Insert nodes here
}

 

[Pehvbot]

23 minutes ago, hemeac said:

@Pehvbot, I was just going through your cfg as I saw the previous post and I think the issue is that you are trying to patch a tree that doesn't exist.  This is functionally what I have been doing with my tree and seems to be working :

@TechTree:NEEDS[LRTRTechTree]:FOR[zLRTR] {
	!RDNode,* {}
}

@TechTree:AFTER[zLRTR]:NEEDS[LRTRTechTree]
{
... Insert nodes here
}

 

Thanks for the info!  Frustratingly, I am getting wildly inconsistent results.   I'm beginning to suspect a ModuleManager issue. 

In the previous version as well as the original RP-1 version worked fine in 1.10 or less.  The code was very similar to your solution above but with !RDNode,* {} sitting inside the same patch that adds in the RP-1 tech tree instead of being its own patch.  I changed it to -TechTree {} because I was getting very strange tech tree behavior in 1.11 and this *seemed* to fix it.

In theory removing the TechTree node and adding it back in with a MM patch should work.  And it does work sometimes.   It looks like the ModuleManager.TechTree file sometimes gets written and sometimes it doesn't. 

With your patch I get even stranger behavior now.  If I have kerbalism installed it seems to hangs when trying to add very normal parts throwing an error about RDNodes or it gives me a blank tech tree without kerbalism installed.  NOTE:  I'm running this in MacOS so it might be an OS specific issue. 

As of now I think LRTR is just not fit for 1.11.  I'm going to see if I can create a bare minimum MM patch that duplicates the problem and make sure that v1.5 works with earlier KSP versions.

[hemeac]

Convinced me to download 1.11 and test to see if I get similar behavior with my tech tree.  I've noticed two changes referencing the tech tree in the change log:

* Tech Tree now correctly reads all TechTree nodes from gamedata folder.

 

* Fix localization of tech tree node names in UI. Including Part Upgrades.

And this in the modders notes:

Previously KSP had a hard-coded path to the techtree.cfg file in GameData Folder which was read at startup. Now KSP will look for and concatenate TechTree nodes from the game database which is preloaded on startup of all .cfg files and ConfigNodes.

Edit: Think it may be a MacOS issue or a LRTR issue in 1.11.  I tested my tech tree with that style config alongside No Kerbalism/Kerbalism and things seem to be parsing correctly.  Haven't actually tested LRTR, but will try and remember when I have some free time tonight.

Edited December 20, 2020 by hemeac

[Pehvbot]

The latest update v1.5.1 reverts the techTree config file back to one that works in 1.10 and lower.  1.11 is not supported yet.  My apologies for my overly enthusiastic update

[Pehvbot]

14 hours ago, hemeac said:

Convinced me to download 1.11 and test to see if I get similar behavior with my tech tree.  I've noticed two changes referencing the tech tree in the change log:

[...]

Thanks for the help!  It looks like these changes uncovered an existing bug in my techtree config that was ignored in older KSP versions.  The lunarOrbiterCapsules RDNode had a broken 'Parent' node which caused all kinds of strange behavior, including with KerbalismConfig.  The original RP-1 techtree is fine so I must have introduced it when I converted it to the LRTR mod.

Again, thanks for looking at it.

[OrbitalManeuvers]

Can I ask what the altitude of space is (from Earth) in this mod? I see there's rescaling involved but not sure what the final size compares to. Thanks!

[Pehvbot]

Just now, OrbitalManeuvers said:

Can I ask what the altitude of space is (from Earth) in this mod? I see there's rescaling involved but not sure what the final size compares to. Thanks!

It uses the standard RealSolarSystem scale which is 140km.  It only rescales stock and stockalike parts so they are more more less real world size/mass/performance.  It's basically just a way to play a lightweight version of RP-1.

[wallum61]

Something weird I am noticing on 1.11.1 using V1.5.2; 

The RP-1 administration box does not open when in a Sandbox gamemode. I stripped everything out bar the essentials, and the box simply doesnt appear when clicked. In Career, it looks fine, but for a "dont worry about money or science but just play as you want with stuff like LS and Admin" playthrough, a bit problematic.

[Pehvbot]

12 hours ago, wallum61 said:

Something weird I am noticing on 1.11.1 using V1.5.2; 

The RP-1 administration box does not open when in a Sandbox gamemode. I stripped everything out bar the essentials, and the box simply doesnt appear when clicked. In Career, it looks fine, but for a "dont worry about money or science but just play as you want with stuff like LS and Admin" playthrough, a bit problematic.

Is 1.11.1 a pre-release?  It is supposed to be working and does in my 1.11 test game.  Any chance you can make the KSP.log file available?

[Pehvbot]

On 1/14/2021 at 8:07 PM, wallum61 said:

Something weird I am noticing on 1.11.1 using V1.5.2; 

The RP-1 administration box does not open when in a Sandbox gamemode. I stripped everything out bar the essentials, and the box simply doesnt appear when clicked. In Career, it looks fine, but for a "dont worry about money or science but just play as you want with stuff like LS and Admin" playthrough, a bit problematic.

FYI, I've been able to replicate the problem (or at least *a* problem).   I'm still looking at it but I think it's because the RP-1 menu is trying to load maintenance costs info but doesn't have any in sandbox mode.

I didn't see it initially because I almost always load a career game and if you load a career game first THEN a sandbox game, it won't glitch.  You can try this as a temporary workaround while I fix this.

[MacLuky]

This looks interesting! I managed to get RSS on 1.11 and most of RO, but failed at RP1. 
 

Will give it a go! Is it on CKAN?

[Pehvbot]

7 hours ago, MacLuky said:

This looks interesting! I managed to get RSS on 1.11 and most of RO, but failed at RP1. 
 

Will give it a go! Is it on CKAN?

Thanks!  Yes it's on CKAN, although 1.11 compatibility relies on a few mods that don't officially support it yet.   I haven't noticed any serious problems except with Restock.  Restock doesn't understand the revamped RCS blocks or HG-5 antenna yet.  You will need to add some temporary patches to use them until it gets updated to 1.11

Create a Restock whitelist file (e.g. patches.restockwhitelist) somewhere in your GameData folder

Squad/Parts/Utility/DirectAntennas/HGAntenna_v2
Squad/Parts/Utility/DirectAntennas/MiniAntenna
Squad/Parts/Utility/rcsBlockRV-105_v2/

Create or add to a patching cfg file (e.g. patches.cfg) somewhere in your GameData folder.

@PART[RCSBlock_v2]:BEFORE[000_ReStock]
{
  RestockIgnore = True
}

Just so you know, I'm working on the next update which fixes a few problems with 1.11 as well as adds experimental support for Breaking Ground features (ROCs) in RealSolarSystem.  It should be ready over the long weekend.

Edited January 17, 2021 by Pehvbot

[Pehvbot]

Version 1.6 has been released.  The release includes

• Misc bug fixes for 1.11
• Fixes problem with the RP-1 command window in Sandbox and Science mode not displaying
• Adds a new command part (The Telemetry Launch Control Unit - TLC) an in-line part for early sounding rockets.
• Adds experimental support for Breaking Ground surface features which can be enabled in the config.cfg file.

You can now play with Breaking Ground surface features scattered across the solar system.  This is experimental and will likely be changed when there is official Real Solar System support.  For now you can find all the various Breaking Ground surface features and includes the default contracts for them.  Be a little careful, I haven't noticed a huge performance hit, but I tend to play a very light game, so your mileage may vary.

If you do use it, let me know how it goes!

[Pehvbot]

v1.6.1 is a minor update with mod fixes for RealFuels, RestockPlus, and new stock parts.

There is also an update for the companion LRTR KerbalismConfig improving support for 1.11 and improving some ISRU settings.

[Pehvbot]

For anyone who is interested:  I've been playing with BARIS as the failure mod for LRTR and it seems to work well with some caveats:

• The monthly costs overlap with the built-in LRTR monthly costs and also are quite steep.  You may want to disable them.
• I've removed some of the action cards that directly conflict with LRTR (specifically astronaut related ones).
• BARIS has a minor but annoying conflict with Kerbalism which disables science transmissions for non-deployable antennas.  Unless/until this gets fixed I've disabled antenna failures when using Kerbalism
• Also Kerbalism failures overlap with BARIS you may want to disable or greatly reduce them, especially the engine failures.
• Launch cadences need to be much higher than stock games to account for failures.  You may need to increase the BuildRate in Kerbal Construction Time.  The easiest way is to directly edit default RP1 preset from the KCT settings:
  • From the KSC  right click on the KCT icon to open the settings
  • Click the 'show/hide formulas' button to reveal the build formula
  • Scroll down to 'Build Rate' and change the very beginning of the formula from (1+([L]... to (2+([L]...  I'm still playing with this new build rate so feel free to adjust it as needed.  The higher the number the faster the build rate.

 

 

[heraros]

hi, i have a question. it is possible to just resize the performance of the parts but not their size?

Edited March 23, 2021 by James Kerman
Fixed formatting

[Pehvbot]

9 hours ago, heraros said:

hi, i have a question. it is possible to just resize the performance of the parts but not their size?

SMURFF does this.  If you install SMURFF it will automatically disable the rescaler.  I don't think it scales performance up quite as much, but it it shouldn't given the lower fuel mass needed.  I've never tried playing a full game with SMURFF so I don't know how well it works with the other LRTR stuff (tech tree, contracts, etc).

If you try this, let me know how it works.  I'm always up for improving the mod and feedback helps.

Edited March 23, 2021 by Pehvbot

[heraros]

30 minutes ago, Pehvbot said:

SMURFF does this.  If you install SMURFF it will automatically disable the rescaler.  I don't think it scales performance up quite as much, but it it shouldn't given the lower fuel mass needed.  I've never tried playing a full game with SMURFF so I don't know how well it works with the other LRTR stuff (tech tree, contracts, etc).

If you try this, let me know how it works.  I'm always up for improving the mod and feedback helps.

Ok thank you. I'll try that and keep you posted. if it works, I will have finally found an alternative to RO. I do not like the parts are not  the same scale of Kerbal.

(sorry for my english, i'm french ^^)

Edited March 23, 2021 by heraros