[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[softweir]

There's a bugfix mentioned in the changelog for the latest version (0.15.2V "Ferri") that fixes a problem where voxelisation breaks down after many voxelisation events leading to no drag. Maybe that is it? Have you updated?

[Pyromaniacal]

Oh. I apparently didn't check well enough into making sure I was up to date. Well done me. Sorry.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Pyromaniacal
I am a dumb.

[Wanderfound]

Regarding your antenna tip, how does it not snap off?

You might lose it if you're pulling extreme stunts with a spaceplane, but a rocket should be pointed near-prograde and climbing into the stratosphere rapidly; there just isn't that much stress on it. And if you do blow it off, it's more likely to be through overheating than aero strain.

I wouldn't rely on the nose-spike antenna as your only source of comms, though.

[Jikahn]

[Exception]: NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

After loading a saved game, the above spam occurs when right clicking a Kerbal during EVA, when FAR is installed along side TweakableEverything. No menu appears. Disabling TweakableEva.dll or EVAManager.dll seems to resolve the issue. Cross posted to TweakableEverything

Reproductions steps:

Install FAR and Tweakable Everything in a fresh installation.

Start a new sandbox career mode.

Launch a MK1 Capsule

EVA Jebediah

Right click Jebediah and note that the EVA menu appears

Board the MK1 Capsule, recover the capsule, and exit the game.

Restart the game and load the saved game.

Launch the MK1 Capsule

EVA Jebediah

Right click Jebediah and note that the EVA menu does not appear, and the debug window is full of the NRE spam.

[blowfish]

JiKahn: you're going to have to provide a full output_log.txt if you want anyone to even look at exceptions.

[Pyromaniacal]

Has anyone noticed a lack of shock heating? I started a stock game with 15.2 and I noticed that I was moving close to mach 3 at 10km up, and there was no ablation on my heat shield.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1gBa6DtumlJNms3QNxBrwgBzwx8NqAp1yGt2Mi2dsJyc/edit?usp=sharing

Above is a link for the game log for a stock+FAR15.2 game. It SHOULD allow sharing. I don't want to paste the whole thing in the post because I'm pretty sure I'd get banned or something. If there's a better way to do so, may I ask what it is?

[Crzyrndm]

@Crzyrndm: Make sure that the collider / mesh faces are oriented the proper way. FAR's using that to get finer detail about the shape,and if they're facing backwards, it'll voxelize things wrongly.

Assuming by orientation you mean the collider/mesh transform orientation, I don't think this is the case.

Debug.Log("orientation: " + part.transform.rotation.eulerAngles); [COLOR=#008000]// part orientation[/COLOR]
Debug.Log(meshFilterWingSurface.transform.rotation.eulerAngles); [COLOR=#008000]// mesh transform orientation[/COLOR]
Debug.Log((Quaternion.Inverse(part.transform.rotation) * meshFilterWingSurface.transform.rotation).eulerAngles);[COLOR=#008000] // rotation of the mesh transform relative to the part transform[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#008000]// there is no collider for this particular mesh[/COLOR]

The third value is consistent for all part rotations for all meshes/colliders, which (if I'm not barking up the wrong tree) would indicate to me that the orientation of the mesh faces is consistent (and presumably correct because it works half the time).

[Jikahn]

Output log from previous NRE post

https://www.dropbox.com/s/du77whlqk0lah2z/output_log.txt?dl=0

Edit: Toadicus fixed it with his update.

.|

.|

\ /

Edited May 22, 2015 by Jikahn

[toadicus]

I know I'm butting in where I don't belong, but Jikahn, I recommend you try the new TE release and let ferram4 know if that fixes your issue.

[WalterB]

Hi, I'm a new guy here and I think I may be experiencing the disappearing aerodynamics bug in FAR 0.15.2, please take a look at the screenshot below.

I've been trying to learn FAR and RemoteTech by launching unmanned probes in Sandbox mode. I finally succeeded in getting one to space using the RT Flight Computer but when it reenters the atmosphere FAR does not show a Mach number and it accelerates straight into the ground.

Here's a link to a zip file containing ksp.log, output_log.txt, installed-default.ckan and my .craft file:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/g9eq8ad8s1ijmji/error_files.zip?dl=0

In addition to the modules managed by ckan I also have KineTechAnimation and MK2Expansion.

If you need any additional info or files, please let me know.

Thanks

[Demuder]

I am a new player and I installed FAR yesterday through CKAN (it looks like and excellent mod btw, thank you for making and maintaining this), the version reads 0.15.2_Ferri and I experienced the same bug as WalterB, above.

After installing, I had to redesign all my craft since... well, not much could make it out of the atmosphere in one piece. After I got the hang of it, I launched two flights, one to rescue a Kerbal from Kerbin's orbit and one to rescue another Kerbal from moon orbit. Both craft experienced drag while getting into orbit. The first one (well, just the command capsule with the rescued Kerbal inside) experienced drag and heat while reentering, but the second one, simply went through the atmosphere as if it was vacuum, just with reentry heat visual effects but no actual heat (the shield didn't lose a single point) and no slowing down and accelerating normally under gravity (it hit the ground at about 3900 m/sec while it reentered from a nornal low orbit). The aerodynamics overlay also showed no drag during that second reentry. I also think that I opened the parachutes after the heat visuals went away and the parachutes deployed normally although at that point I was going over 3km/s.

Loading the last quicksave fixed the problem and the pod reentered as expected. So no real harm done, more like a pretty funny inconvenience.

I am posting a link to my dropbox with all the files WalterB suggests, please let me know if you need anything more about my setup.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1385950/KSP/KSP.rar

[kcs123]

Try to install FAR manually, without CKAN. CKAN is great for handling large amount of mods and keeping everything updated, but sometimes it does not work well with some mods.

FAR is such mod. Probably with each update there is need for someone from CKAN staff members to revise how FAR needs to be installed with all dependencies. You can catch broken automatic indexing FAR update trough CKAN before someone from staff members checked it.

You can still have both CKAN and FAR though. Install FAR by yourself and let CKAN handle rest of mods. CKAN will inform you when is update available for FAR, so you can update it by yourself again when need it.

Be sure that you have modular flight integrator installed as well.

FAR strongly depends on it, so you can expect strange behaviour like you described without it.

[DuxDucisHodiernus]

@DuxDucisHodiernus: I'm honestly more annoyed that you didn't bother to read the changelog that covers fixing it,or Kitspace's comment above you that complains about an editor bug introduced by the fix. There's nothing more irritating than being nagged by someone who doesn't know what's going on.

Ferram seems i can't win with you, however i bring something up i do it in a wrong way somehow. I didn't have the context to understand kitspace was referring to a patch that fixed my issues, and I didn't know there was a changelog noting the fixing, if i did i wouldnt have asked.

[steve_v]

Pro tip: go see if your issue's been worked on, then test it. Gotta be quicker than asking and waiting around for a reply

[Roman0]

Was this problem reported by any chance? (something similar to what Volt had with B9 PWings)

http://imgur.com/a/8Trdk

Recently I started sideslipping at high speeds. Turns out Mk2 Bicoupler's voxels are borked. Screenshots made with only FAR 0.15.2 (and its requirements) installed.

[ferram4]

@Crzyrndm: And you are certain that the triangles that are created have their vertices ordered when creating the triangle such that the numbering is clockwise when viewed from the outside of the mesh, right? (Or anti-clockwise. I'm not sure which it is, so long as it's consistent). Because the results would be consistent with it being flipped for one of the meshes.

@WalterB & Demuder: Unfortunately, your logs show nothing and your reproduction steps (which I basically parsed as, "launch a bunch of things into space") didn't work. I need, "these steps will always absolutely and completely reliably cause the bug every time no exceptions" steps or else I can't fix it.

I believe that the bug is there. The problem is no one tells me how to get to it. Which means I can't fix it. And this merry go around continues.

Let's try this: cause it with no other mods at all. Just FAR. I don't wanna hear about RemoteTech, or KIS, or Tweakscale, or whatever. Just FAR. And then, post exactly what you did. If it involves any wishy-washy, "play for a bit" or "launch a few things" or anything non-specific, your report is useless because you're missing the actual cause and burying it behind a huge mess of confounders. Then, submit that step-by-step rigorous a-robot-could-cause-this-bug-now checklist, and then I'll try to fix the bug. Rigor gets bugs fixed. Wishy-washy reports just delay the bugfixes that I already have while I wait for actual reproduction steps.

@DuxDucisHodiernus: Then let me explain how you went wrong. It's really very simple. Lots of people like following the mod and watching progress. They, like most people doing this, realize that the best way to do that is to simply watch the github repo and get your information there. They can find out what's changed, without demanding special attention from me. Which you have. Multiple times now. For information that you would have known if you read the OP or the readme. Like you're supposed to.

[linuxgurugamer]

Before I spend a lot of time on this, can you tell me if this would be a FAR issue or something else:

I built a rocket using the stock fairings. When I launch it, the fairing don't seem to block the aerodynamic stuff. Parts inside the fairing explode due to heating, a satellite was knocked off the decoupler and destroyed, etc.

I replaced the stock fairing with the conic fairing from Keramzit Engineering (I think it is the Procedural Fairing mod), and the rocket was fine.

This happened on two different rockets.

I just downloaded the updated FAR (0.15.2), and I see the same thing. I also have the latest DRE installed (7.0.3)

I verified that ModularFlightIntegrator is installed, version 1.0.0

I have a lot of mods installed, so before I post a complete report, I'll make a new install with the minimal mods I need to reproduce this. I just need to know if you need this info or if you already have it.

If you only need a craft file, let me know.

This isn't a game killer since Prodedural Fairings works well.

I looked at the list of issues and solved issues, didn't see anything like this.

Thanks in advance

LGG

[Volt]

Was this problem reported by any chance? (something similar to what Volt had with B9 PWings)

http://imgur.com/a/8Trdk

Recently I started sideslipping at high speeds. Turns out Mk2 Bicoupler's voxels are borked. Screenshots made with only FAR 0.15.2 (and its requirements) installed.

Oh, that's odd. Could you post up your modlist (Gamedata folder) or PM it to me? I'll do the same later on after college with my list and logs. (although I do wish KSP didn't take 5 minutes to restart every time I make a change). It might be a separate issue indicated by a similar voxel distribution, but maybe we can catch the problem.

[Demuder]

Try to install FAR manually, without CKAN. CKAN is great for handling large amount of mods and keeping everything updated, but sometimes it does not work well with some mods.

FAR is such mod. Probably with each update there is need for someone from CKAN staff members to revise how FAR needs to be installed with all dependencies. You can catch broken automatic indexing FAR update trough CKAN before someone from staff members checked it.

You can still have both CKAN and FAR though. Install FAR by yourself and let CKAN handle rest of mods. CKAN will inform you when is update available for FAR, so you can update it by yourself again when need it.

Be sure that you have modular flight integrator installed as well.

FAR strongly depends on it, so you can expect strange behaviour like you described without it.

Damn, that's sad news :-) I liked CKAN for all the utility it provides. Will try without though.

@WalterB & Demuder: Unfortunately, your logs show nothing and your reproduction steps (which I basically parsed as, "launch a bunch of things into space") didn't work. I need, "these steps will always absolutely and completely reliably cause the bug every time no exceptions" steps or else I can't fix it.

I believe that the bug is there. The problem is no one tells me how to get to it. Which means I can't fix it. And this merry go around continues.

Let's try this: cause it with no other mods at all. Just FAR. I don't wanna hear about RemoteTech, or KIS, or Tweakscale, or whatever. Just FAR. And then, post exactly what you did. If it involves any wishy-washy, "play for a bit" or "launch a few things" or anything non-specific, your report is useless because you're missing the actual cause and burying it behind a huge mess of confounders. Then, submit that step-by-step rigorous a-robot-could-cause-this-bug-now checklist, and then I'll try to fix the bug. Rigor gets bugs fixed. Wishy-washy reports just delay the bugfixes that I already have while I wait for actual reproduction steps.

You are right, of course. The main problem is that the nature of the bug seems to actually be, "launch stuff and at a point FAR will stop working" anyway so it would be difficult to reproduce. The interesting thing that me and WalterD only have AlarmClock and Toolbar in common, so I doubt it's a mod that we have that causes the issue.

However, since I use CKAN and from what I saw in your patch notes this bug was "fixed" ("Fixed voxelization breaking after many voxelization events; this fixes no-drag situations") in the last version, maybe it's CKAN's fault as kcs123 suggests - if WalterB is also using CKAN that would almost certify it. So I will remove FAR from CKAN and install it outside it, if there's more occurrences, I think we got it.

[Roman0]

Oh, that's odd. Could you post up your modlist (Gamedata folder) or PM it to me? I'll do the same later on after college with my list and logs. (although I do wish KSP didn't take 5 minutes to restart every time I make a change). It might be a separate issue indicated by a similar voxel distribution, but maybe we can catch the problem.

Like I said, clean game with only FAR v0.15.2_Ferri installed (from github).

[Volt]

Like I said, clean game with only FAR v0.15.2_Ferri installed (from github).

Duuuuuuuh. Okay. Will do the same test as well as the B9 + KIS tests.

Here we go with the tests. I'll edit each one into a spoiler on this post as I do it. (WARNING: LARGE IMAGES)

First test was done with B9 Pwing, KIS and the latest FAR dev build (22/05) installed. Shows the same behaviour as roman0 observed, with only stock parts.

output_log from this run:

http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=17260156481371657900

Reproduction steps: Build what you see above. Mk2 cockpit, 2 Mk2 fuel tanks, Mk2 bicoupler.

Same setup as above. Just to provide full logs and screenshots.

Images here

output_log from this run:

http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=46524812811927565863

Reproduction steps: Using FAR and B9 PWing, build any aircraft using the PWings in symmetry. Add some control surfaces and you'll see the real weirdness. Interestingly, I actually made a point of placing one of the control surfaces from the starboard side and one from the port side, yet both still voxelise more on the starboard side while the main wing, which was placed from starboard, shows thicker voxels on the port wing.

Mods used: KIS, B9 Pwing (left installed, not used on this ship), KAS, FAR.

For this flight I used infinite fuel and stuck something into orbit just for the test. Opening a pair of covered panels worked fine (image 1), rather than the 'shrouded' problem I had on my station, but that may have been a separate problem with PFairings. I then moved onto attempting to attach new covered panels and unfolding them. As expected, I was given a NullRef error and the view jerked to the side slightly and then returned. The panels refused to open, saying they were stowed, as shown in the screenshot (image 2):

Images here

output_log:

http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=00012855916305724492

Reproduction steps:

Put a craft into orbit. Take a boxed solar panel from a KIS container and use a Kerbal Engineer with a screwdriver to attach it radially to the ship. The error will throw. Then try to open the panel. No panel! A quicksave/quickload will I assume force an update, which upon testing allowed me to open the panels I had placed. I'm gonna cross-post this one over to KIS to see if KospY has something.

That's it, any more you need, let me know. I'm here for a few hours continuing the station build.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Volt

[kcs123]

I have reproduced same thing as Roman0. Bare minimum of installed mods:

GCMonitor - to display memory usage and FPS

TemperatureGaugeKiller - to prevent memory leaks from stock game bug

ModularFlightIntegrator - manual install

FerramAerospaceResearch - dev version 76f8c87f37

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Note that when I have voxelisation displayed, FPS droped down to 25 FPS. Without it and in all other game scenes it gives steady locked at 60 FPS.

And one stupid question, I know that is possible, but I forgot how to capture game log file without forcing game to CTD ?

ALT + F2 didn't showed anything that could look important, but it is good to know how to create whole log anyway.

[Volt]

I found with the latest dev version that the debug voxels took me down to moments of 'not responding', on my potato PC. That's the cost of that sort of tool, I guess.

The game log is stored about halfway down the KSP_Data folder as output_log.txt.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Volt

[linuxgurugamer]

Before I spend a lot of time on this, can you tell me if this would be a FAR issue or something else:

I built a rocket using the stock fairings. When I launch it, the fairing don't seem to block the aerodynamic stuff. Parts inside the fairing explode due to heating, a satellite was knocked off the decoupler and destroyed, etc.

I replaced the stock fairing with the conic fairing from Keramzit Engineering (I think it is the Procedural Fairing mod), and the rocket was fine.

This happened on two different rockets.

I just downloaded the updated FAR (0.15.2), and I see the same thing. I also have the latest DRE installed (7.0.3)

I verified that ModularFlightIntegrator is installed, version 1.0.0

I have a lot of mods installed, so before I post a complete report, I'll make a new install with the minimal mods I need to reproduce this. I just need to know if you need this info or if you already have it.

If you only need a craft file, let me know.

This isn't a game killer since Prodedural Fairings works well.

I looked at the list of issues and solved issues, didn't see anything like this.

Thanks in advance

LGG

I think I've traced this to DRE and not FAR. When I delete DRE, the fairings work.

sorry for the false alarm, I'll go to the DRE thread

[Gryphon]

Damn, that's sad news :-) I liked CKAN for all the utility it provides. Will try without though.

CKAN is just fine for people who use it, but I think it's best to add an additional bug chasing step of "reinstall the mod outside of CKAN" before reporting an issue.

As an added note, I suggested (in the CKAN thread) that they show who is maintaining CKAN metadata for a mod, and pjf agreed that was a good idea, so I presume that will be added at some point, thus allowing CKAN users to inform the right person if there's an issue there.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Gryphon
clarification