[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[ferram4]

@Kitspace: Your first issue was already fixed in the dev build awhile ago. Your second issue was acknowledged two pages back and has been fixed in the dev build.

[sumghai]

With the emergent fairing and cargo bay behaviour in 0.15.2 and beyond, does this mean that PartModules used in my add-on parts, such as FARBasicDragModel and FARPartClassification, can be safely removed?

[Kitspace]

I would like to suggest what I think might be useful regarding the center of lift indicator.

In real life in rocket and airplane modeling there is a thing that is called the center of aerodynamic pressure used to asses the stability of the craft in overall. I think about it as some sort of a theoretical point where the total drag force of the whole vessel is applied and where all other aerodynamic forces such as the forces from the stabilizers will be applied should they develop. I do not know if this is entirely correct.

Anyway why not use the marker for this in game? I believe it will give the same kind of indication it used to give in stock game.

I always thought that it shows exactly that but now I am in doubt about the new versions.

[4plains]

Hello,

I posted this in the DRE thread but thought it might help the flipping craft discussion from a couple of pages back.

I don't think its reasonable to expect a craft that's 4 science juniors long to behave itself whilst crashing through the atmosphere at 2km/s. The space shuttle is the longest re-entry vehicle we've launched and that needs ablative shielding all along it and must follow a strict re-entry profile.

Yes long and thin craft need to follow a specific reentry profile.

Have you checked your transsonic design graphs for your reentry vehicle? If it produces a lot of drag at the front (the side facing into the airstream) of the vehicle and not at the back you have a instable craft at high speeds. sweeping the AOA in the design tools tab at high mach values is a good method of checking that.

With Aircraft what I usually do is that I try to elimiate all the stuff that causes high drag at the front and IF I do have high drag stuff like airbrakes it's at the rear; for reentry vehicles I build a high drag assembly at the back (usually out of structural parts) to counteract the instability problem at high speed. Your Airbrakes idea isn't bad but If you don't have 'em at the start, a 1x1 structural panel is as good if put between pod and parachute.

Greets 4plains

[jackal40]

After getting frustrated with the whole flipping space craft this, I've decided to give this mad a try. Here's to the start of a beautiful relationship!

[Bakase]

I would like to suggest what I think might be useful regarding the center of lift indicator.

In real life in rocket and airplane modeling there is a thing that is called the center of aerodynamic pressure used to asses the stability of the craft in overall. I think about it as some sort of a theoretical point where the total drag force of the whole vessel is applied and where all other aerodynamic forces such as the forces from the stabilizers will be applied should they develop. I do not know if this is entirely correct.

Anyway why not use the marker for this in game? I believe it will give the same kind of indication it used to give in stock game.

I always thought that it shows exactly that but now I am in doubt about the new versions.

I'm pretty sure that's what it is already...

[tetryds]

I would like to suggest what I think might be useful regarding the center of lift indicator.

In real life in rocket and airplane modeling there is a thing that is called the center of aerodynamic pressure used to asses the stability of the craft in overall. I think about it as some sort of a theoretical point where the total drag force of the whole vessel is applied and where all other aerodynamic forces such as the forces from the stabilizers will be applied should they develop. I do not know if this is entirely correct.

Anyway why not use the marker for this in game? I believe it will give the same kind of indication it used to give in stock game.

I always thought that it shows exactly that but now I am in doubt about the new versions.

Because it changes too much with too much stuff.

Use the graphs, there is nothing that you would be missing.

[brusura]

is AoA supposed to be static during "Calculate Stability Derivates" ? The first time I enter the SPH and load the craft and I hit "Calculate Stability Derivates" AoA change this way:

1st click AoA > 0 deg

2nd click AoA: 27.5344 deg

3nd click AoA: 27.5345 deg

The values then turn from red to green after 2nd click , but if I load again the same craft and click on calculate stability derivates AoA stays > 0 deg no matter how many clicks.

In case this is not a noob question I have uploaded logs, craft file and screenshoots ( stock installation, dev build commit 291db7a515 )

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sevvwpy5nuksl7q/20150605.zip?dl=0

EDIT: also Zu and Xu are positive O_o

Edited June 5, 2015 by brusura

[tetryds]

That means your craft is not capable of sustained flight based on aerodynamic forces alone at the given circumstances.

If your craft cannot fly at the given parameters don't expect the derivatives to be nice to you, haha.

I wonder why it changes when recalculated, it did that on oldFAR and took a while to be fixed.

[brusura]

So does this mean that it will try extreme AoA everytime I hit calculate to try at wich condition the craft is flyable?

[tetryds]

So does this mean that it will try extreme AoA everytime I hit calculate to try at wich condition the craft is flyable?

No, it just means your craft cannot fly, and FAR will go derp trying to figure out how it would fly, because it won't.

If it flies, that is because of the engine thrust, by the way.

Try to increase the mach number to something like 0.7 and try again to see what happens.

[brusura]

No, it just means your craft cannot fly, and FAR will go derp trying to figure out how it would fly, because it won't.

If it flies, that is because of the engine thrust, by the way.

Try to increase the mach number to something like 0.7 and try again to see what happens.

Ok the craft is indeed flyable when it reach about over 200 m/s and capable of orbit, I was just confused on why the derivates were changing every click, thanks for the answer.

[Svm420]

Anyone have any success building a helicopter in FAR. Right now my issue is trying to stop and land. I try to pitch up to lose horizontal velocity this leads to instability, and I end up rolling and losing control relatively easily. Also it can at times become unstable if AoA gets above about 20* pitching up more and more till it stalls or rolls as I try to kill horizontal velocity. I have my thrust and mass aligned it just seems I can't get aerodynamic stability. Any tips and help is greatly appreciated I have a good amount of experience and understanding with building fixed wing crafts, but can't figure out helis

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Edited June 5, 2015 by Svm420

[kcs123]

Anyone have any success building a helicopter in FAR. Right now my issue is trying to stop and land. I try to pitch up to lose horizontal velocity this leads to instability, and I end up rolling and losing control relatively easily. Also it can at times become unstable if AoA gets above about 20* pitching up more and more till it stalls or rolls as I try to kill horizontal velocity. I have my thrust and mass aligned it just seems I can't get aerodynamic stability. Any tips and help is greatly appreciated I have a good amount of experience and understanding with building fixed wing crafts, but can't figure out helis http://imgur.com/a/67LhV

Check out KAX thread. I have made some changes to config files to make things possible. Link for specific post in KAX thread is in OP in my craft exchange thread where you can find craft example as well. Keptin will going to include those changes in next release of KAX or come up with something even better.

Edited June 5, 2015 by kcs123
Direct link for KAX post

[buckwheat700]

When I install F.A.R. It screws up my center of lift. the arrow disappeared and the ball is behind all of my wings. when i fly the aircraft the center of lift is obviously in front of my center of mass by the way it stalls. when uninstalled everything is fine except it is absolutely unresponsive to control surfaces. Please help, I am an experienced ksp player but new to the forum. I use alot of mods.

[Traches]

Unless you have some modded main rotor that simulates a swashplate, an accurate helo will be impossible in KSP. If you want to fake it, you could mod yourself a ridiculously strong reaction wheel to accomplish a similar purpose, though it won't really behave correctly.

[hahawin]

When I install F.A.R. It screws up my center of lift. the arrow disappeared and the ball is behind all of my wings. when i fly the aircraft the center of lift is obviously in front of my center of mass by the way it stalls. when uninstalled everything is fine except it is absolutely unresponsive to control surfaces. Please help, I am an experienced ksp player but new to the forum. I use alot of mods.

As has been said more than once in the last few pages, the center of lift indicator is very unreliable, and as I understand there is not much ferram4 can do about it other than removing it entirely. Use the graphs and simulation window to get an idea of your craft's permormance. Most likely it is just aerodynamically unstable.

[Amram]

When I install F.A.R. It screws up my center of lift. the arrow disappeared and the ball is behind all of my wings. when i fly the aircraft the center of lift is obviously in front of my center of mass by the way it stalls. when uninstalled everything is fine except it is absolutely unresponsive to control surfaces. Please help, I am an experienced ksp player but new to the forum. I use alot of mods.

CoL is not CoL with far, its CoP, or center of pressure. Its also a poor indicator of stability, the graphs should be used as they will tell you WAY more than anything else - not only whether or not it can fly. They will tell you if it will yaw uncontrollably, what AoA you have to pull to take off, whether you can push the nose around or have to stay right on prograde to remain in control, so much more.

As to the "CoL" arrow, its not disappeared, its removed.

[Solar71]

Someone please help.

My voxel drag keeps turning off.

Its totally random. Sometimes drag seems to work perfectly. Sometimes I will just go through kerbin atmosphere as if I'm in a vacuum. I'm talking 1500 m/s at sea level just falling in an Mk1. Unpowered. Just falling and always accelerating.

Something is wrong with FAR. This used to be the best mod for ksp. What happened?

if anyone knows a fix please let me know.

Im using 1.0.2. And I only have about 6-8 mods. KIS , KAS , procedural fuel tanks. Kerbal engineer. TAC life support. And remote tech. That's it.

Someone please fix fix this beautiful mod!!! Thanks.

[blowfish]

Someone please help.

My voxel drag keeps turning off.

Its totally random. Sometimes drag seems to work perfectly. Sometimes I will just go through kerbin atmosphere as if I'm in a vacuum. I'm talking 1500 m/s at sea level just falling in an Mk1. Unpowered. Just falling and always accelerating.

Something is wrong with FAR. This used to be the best mod for ksp. What happened?

if anyone knows a fix please let me know.

Im using 1.0.2. And I only have about 6-8 mods. KIS , KAS , procedural fuel tanks. Kerbal engineer. TAC life support. And remote tech. That's it.

Someone please fix fix this beautiful mod!!! Thanks.

I believe there a fix is implemented in the latest dev version on Github. Try it.

[Solar71]

I believe there a fix is implemented in the latest dev version on Github. Try it.

Thank you very much. How can I download a "Dev" version?

Im not a Developer. Just a user. Can I still download it even if I'm not a Dev?

ty.

[BudgetHedgehog]

Thank you very much. How can I download a "Dev" version?

Download this, then transfer the Gamedata folder to your own KSP Gamedata

P.S. "dev" stands for development, not developer.

[Thorbane]

I'm having an issue getting my spoilers/airbrakes to deploy correctly.

Some of them fold into the rocket.

[kcs123]

I'm having an issue getting my spoilers/airbrakes to deploy correctly.

http://i.imgur.com/wNWaQu3.png

Some of them fold into the rocket.

Have you tried with Mirror symetry ? Place 2 x 2 air brakes insted of 4 x 1 airbrake. Slightly harder to place evenly, but can be done.

Not a proper fix, but workaround until better solution is provided from dev side.

[ferram4]

Yes, spoilers act to reduce the lift upward. They have always done this, this is not an issue.