[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[Phineas Freak]

@SpaceEnthusiastdo you deviate a lot from the prograde vector? Usually rockets break when the AoA is higher than a specific limit (unique for each design). Also thrust: you might have a high TWR early in the flight while inside the denser parts of the atmosphere.

[Svm420]

@ferram4

I believe I am running into a similar issue now with B9 Pwings, RealFuels and FAR. It seems RealFuels is somehow getting a negative mass in the editor for Pwings when made small. I have to set the mass slider to 4 to even get positive mass for the size of the wing I tested. This likely needs fixing on RFs side more than FAR, but wanted to mention it here just in case.

Part.cfg from my cache below

@NathanKell tagging you so you can check to see if changes need to be made to RealFuels.

Spoiler

 

UrlConfig
{
	name = B9_Aero_Wing_Procedural_TypeA
	type = PART
	parentUrl = B9_Aerospace_ProceduralWings/Parts/Aero_Wing_Procedural/wing_procedural_typeA
	url = B9_Aerospace_ProceduralWings/Parts/Aero_Wing_Procedural/wing_procedural_typeA/B9_Aero_Wing_Procedural_TypeA
	PART
	{
		name = B9_Aero_Wing_Procedural_TypeA
		module = Part
		author = bac9
		scale = 1
		rescaleFactor = 1
		TechRequired = earlyAviation
		entryCost = 200
		cost = 0
		category = Aero
		subcategory = 0
		title = B9-PW Procedural wing
		manufacturer = Tetragon Projects
		description = Procedural wing you can shape in any way you want using the context menu. Press J while pointing at this part to open the editor window allowing you to edit the shape and materials of this part. You can exit the editing mode by switching to editing of another part in the very same way, or by pressing J again, or by closing the window. The window can also be opened and closed using the B9 button in the bottom-right corner of the screen.
		attachRules = 0,1,0,1,1
		node_attach = 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, -1.0, 0.0, 0.0
		mass = 0.05
		dragModelType = none
		crashTolerance = 15
		maxTemp = 850
		explosionPotential = 0.1
		fuelCrossFeed = True
		breakingTorque = 100
		breakingForce = 100
		thermalMassModifier = 1
		emissiveConstant = 0.85
		bulkheadProfiles = srf
		skinMaxTemp = 2706
		skinThermalMassModifier = 0.436
		skinInternalConductionMult = 0.0000105
		skinMassPerArea = 0.815
		MODEL
		{
			model = B9_Aerospace_ProceduralWings/Parts/Aero_Wing_Procedural/wing_procedural_typeA
		}
		MODULE
		{
			name = WingProcedural
			isCtrlSrf = False
			isWingAsCtrlSrf = False
		}
		MODULE
		{
			name = ModuleToggleCrossFeed
			crossfeedStatus = true
			toggleEditor = true
			toggleFlight = false
		}
		MODULE
		{
			name = ModuleFuelTanks
			volume = 19.2
			basemass = -1
			utilizationTweakable = true
			utilization = 0.5
			type = Default
		}
		MODULE
		{
			name = FARWingAerodynamicModel
			MAC = 4
			MidChordSweep = 0
			b_2 = 4
			TaperRatio = 1
		}
		MODULE
		{
			name = CollisionFX
			scrapeSparks = true
			collisionSound = CollisionFX/Sounds/Bang1
			scrapeSound = CollisionFX/Sounds/GroundSkid
			sparkSound = CollisionFX/Sounds/SparkSqueal
		}
		MODULE
		{
			name = ModuleAGX
		}
		MODULE
		{
			name = ThermalMonitor
		}
		MODULE
		{
			name = GPOSpeedPump
		}
		MODULE
		{
			name = ModuleAeroReentry
		}
		MODULE
		{
			name = GeometryPartModule
			forceUseMeshes = True
		}
		MODULE
		{
			name = FARAeroPartModule
		}
	}
}

 

Edited May 4, 2016 by Svm420

[SpaceEnthusiast]

1 hour ago, Phineas Freak said:

 

@SpaceEnthusiastdo you deviate a lot from the prograde vector? Usually rockets break when the AoA is higher than a specific limit (unique for each design). Also thrust: you might have a high TWR early in the flight while inside the denser parts of the atmosphere.

 

Let's say I'm going straight up, burn slowly and deploy a chute at 5000 meters above ground. Vertical velocity goes negative, chute deploys, and my rocket get completely ripped apart. Every part comes loose. This CAN'T happen in real life, I'm not going that fast. I'm all for realism, but this is too insane. I had to remove the mod. Which is sad, because I noticed how my bottom stage that was lucky enough to still have two fins attached gently float out into the ocean. 

I like how this mods makes you more careful in your ship's design. I often have the important parts all come down separately with their own chutes. But a rocket coming apart going 80m/s seems... odd. Engine falls off, fins come off, the chute comes off (and then deploys :P), and the most expensive part of my fancy rocket plunges into the ground. 

Edited May 4, 2016 by SpaceEnthusiast

[ferram4]

@pellinor: I'll try it, but my initial tests still have everything breaking.  Dunno why, I'm adjusting the mass to the "new prefabMass" that TweakScale sets but it's not working.  No idea why yet.  Nvm, I got it working.  Seems fine, and things don't break with the FAR dev build now.

@Svm420: I hate ModuleMassModifier so much right now.

@SpaceEnthusiast: Your initial post had me wondering if there was a bug, but if you're deploying a parachute to get this to happen, then no wonder.  That's gonna jerk the rocket around pretty hard when it deploys and I wouldn't be surprised if your joint failures are because of the stock joints failing, not anything FAR does.

Edited May 4, 2016 by ferram4

[pellinor]

@ferram4 I found I was still writing a scaled value into part.mass (which is overwritten by the game but might mess up other mods until then). Pushed an update to make sure part.mass is equal to the prefab mass when calling the other updaters. Same link as before:
https://github.com/pellinor0/TweakScale/archive/dev.zip

Edit: Nvm, was answering without refreshing the browser.

Edited May 4, 2016 by pellinor

[Svm420]

@ferram4 @pellinor

Thank you both very much. Especially for working it out so fast.  

[taniwha]

50 minutes ago, pellinor said:

Pushed an update to make sure part.mass is equal to the prefab mass when calling the other updaters.

I may be misinterpreting what you have said, but you should never write to part.mass at any time. This is new as of KSP 1.1 and IPartMassModifier getting fixed (ie, actually used properly).

[pellinor]

20 minutes ago, taniwha said:

I may be misinterpreting what you have said, but you should never write to part.mass at any time. This is new as of KSP 1.1 and IPartMassModifier getting fixed (ie, actually used properly).

I know. This is more of a quick fix because I found that there is still a scaled value written and I'm still looking for a good way to get this out without an incompatible change to the config interface.

[Lavious]

So, I just had a bit of a surprise.  I had my controls fighting me on a simple rescue mission and it took me a while to figure out that it was FAR AoA flight assist toggle 'helping me out' by preventing me from pointing my rescue capsule retrograde.

 

Now that I know what was causing it, I should be able to avoid the issue, but it did get me thinking.  Are the Flight assistance toggles supposed to be influencing control when in orbit? Seems like FAR should go into some sort of sleep mode when outside of an atmosphere.  I'd hate to know what kind of drag FAR may be trying to calculate on my space station.

 

I also have a suggestion. Perhaps there could be some sort of notification that the Flight Assistance is kicking in. Blink an icon, show a message. Something perhaps on by default but could be turned off. So that others who haven't been using FAR very long are not caught by surprise.

 

Love the mod, but I think it could be smoothed out for beginners a bit more.

[taniwha]

Lavious: FAR does shutdown its drag calculation outside of atmosphere. The assistants being active outside of atmosphere is for spaceplanes so things can be setup and confirmed before the plane hits the air.

[visivante]

Hey guys,

I've been having an issue with the last two updates; my rockets will slowly 'float' upwards on the launchpad. Well, parts of it will and other parts wont. For example the tank attached to the launch clamps will appear to detach and slowly float upwards relative to the rest of the craft. 

I can stage and ignite the engines yet the rocket goes nowhere. All the engine effects are visible but the rocket just floats there. Then about 10s into the flight scene everything but the sky and ocean disappear and the log is then spammed with NullRefs and NaN errors until I force quit the game.

If I remove FAR the issue completely disappears.

I'm not at home at the moment but when I get home tonight I'll happily repro the issue and provide the logs if necessary. Additionally, I'll try and capture a short video of the issue.

Until then does anyone have any idea what might be happening? Thanks a ton in advance! I absolutely love this mod and almost cant convince myself to play without it (almost)!

Edited May 6, 2016 by visivante

[Svm420]

30 minutes ago, visivante said:

Hey guys,

I've been having an issue with the last two updates; my rockets will slowly 'float' upwards on the launchpad. Well, parts of it will and other parts wont. For example the tank attached to the launch clamps will appear to detach and slowly float upwards relative to the rest of the craft. 

I can stage and ignite the engines yet the rocket goes nowhere. All the engine effects are visible but the rocket just floats there. Then about 10s into the flight scene everything but the sky and ocean disappear and the log is then spammed with NullRefs and NaN errors until I force quit the game.

If I remove FAR the issue completely disappears.

I'm not at home at the moment but when I get home tonight I'll happily repro the issue and provide the logs if necessary. Additionally, I'll try and capture a short video of the issue.

Until then does anyone have any idea what might be happening? Thanks a ton in advance! I absolutely love this mod and almost cant convince myself to play without it (almost)!

yes read the last few pages. As it is always a good principle.

[visivante]

1 hour ago, Svm420 said:

yes read the last few pages. As it is always a good principle.

I did. Didn't see anyone mentioning my specific issue so I posted.

Mind pointing out what I apparently missed?

[Svm420]

1 minute ago, visivante said:

I did. Didn't see anyone mentioning my specific issue so I posted.

Mind pointing out what I apparently missed?

It depends on what mods you are using.

[visivante]

Just now, Svm420 said:

It depends on what mods you are using.

I see this with only FAR installed.

[Svm420]

2 minutes ago, visivante said:

I see this with only FAR installed.

Hmmm strange the previously discussed issues I alluded to were apparent when using the mod with Tweaksscale, but were subsiquently fixed in the dev version of FAR and the latest Tweakscale. So you can try Dl the latest .dll from the FAR github if you know how and see if that fixes it, otherwise follow these steps to get real support. When you're at your computer of course.  

[AccidentalDisassembly]

Came here to report an exception produced by planting a flag while on EVA, but I looked on GitHub and (not a programmer!) it looked like there was a change that might already address this. Worth coughing up log etc., or was I seeing what I thought I was seeing?

Edited May 6, 2016 by AccidentalDisassembly

[cantab]

Done my usual performance testing with the new FAR and it's not the best performance, I get about a 20% fps drop on a large rocket flying in FAR vs in stock. (Aero FX turned to minimal to eliminate the effect they have on fps.) In the past I've had mixed results, sometimes it's been similar but other times FAR has had a negligible impact on performance.

Is optimisation something you're looking at in the near term, or will we just have to wait?

[DaMichel]

Hey Ferram4, I seem to be in a habit to breaking FAR ;-) Here is a vessel, where, when I wiggle at some part, its cross-section changes by disproportionate amounts and in ways that makes little sense to me.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/157at0813mii0ch/far_kindelberger_odd_cross_section.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/oppqaaqbn9k8rle/Hypersonic.craft?dl=0

[kerrigan778]

I am having flags explode (overheating) on load, after a lot of digging the only relevant error I can find and isolate is:

[LOG 13:56:31.159] Updating vessel voxel for Flag
[ERR 13:56:31.159] Voxel Volume was infinity; ending voxelization

Which I believe is FAR related, unsure if standalone bug or some kind of mod conflict.

 

Thanks

[evilphish]

Is it possible to disable the spare chutes "feature" if one is only using FAR but not real chutes in addition? Right now all the "stock" chutes in the game have 5 spare chutes and as I gather this is due to the real chutes lite implementation inside FAR. I would like them to have an infinite number of spare chutes as I want to add chutes on certain craft that I plan to use many times in a row.

cheers

phishy

 

[EagleXT]

The latest version of FAR good for the aircraft, not so good for the rockets. Without SAS rockets flipped, which does not happen in the stock.

 

FAR

Edited May 8, 2016 by EagleXT

[taniwha]

EagleXT: that is because stock drag is not quite right and makes rockets stable when they should not be.

[EagleXT]

54 minutes ago, taniwha said:

EagleXT: that is because stock drag is not quite right and makes rockets stable when they should not be.

Real simple small rockets without stabilization system, excluding the wings don't flip in the air while the engine provides thrust .

Edited May 8, 2016 by EagleXT

[DaMichel]

Actually EagleXT might be on to something.

I noticed that adding small fins to a rocket can make it less stable. With increasing size of the fins the rocket eventually becomes stable. Bug or Feature? Who knows ...