[1.3.1] Ferram Aerospace Research: v0.15.9.1 "Liepmann" 4/2/18

[dannway]

1 hour ago, EagleXT said:

Real simple small rockets without stabilization system, excluding the wings don't flip in the air while the engine provides thrust .

hahaha learn more physics. 

Spoiler

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Q

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My advice: slow the rocket down untill you reach thinner atmosphere at about 12,000-15,000 then punch the throttle till you reach orbit altitude.

 

 

Edited May 8, 2016 by dannway

[EagleXT]

33 minutes ago, dannway said:

hahaha learn more physics. 

  Reveal hidden contents

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Q

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My advice: slow the rocket down untill you reach thinner atmosphere at about 12,000-15,000 then punch the throttle till you reach orbit altitude.

 

 

link 1

link 2

[EagleXT]

FAR Levitation  (on stock model standing on the runway)

FAR Levitation

[funk]

@eagleXT I've rebuilt your small rocket. As a basic design hint, you should have your center of pressure/lift near or behind your center of mass in all circumstances. The force due lift creates torque at the COM to flip the rocket. You can overcome this torque through control surfaces, reaction wheels or negate the overall torque through spin stabilization.

Here are some pics of your rocket in the editor, watch also the movement of COM while fuel is draining and movement of COP with different angles of attack:

 

Edited May 8, 2016 by funk

[tetryds]

@EagleXT judging by the amount of mods you are using it's unlikely that FAR alone is causing the issue.

Also, that cannard is tweakscaled.

If you can't reproduce the bug with only FAR installed it's none of FAR's concern, as it's likely to be caused by another mod.

Also, if you installed FAR via CKAN here is not the place to ask for support.

[EagleXT]

29 minutes ago, tetryds said:

If you can't reproduce the bug with only FAR installed it's none of FAR's concern, as it's likely to be caused by another mod.

Also, if you installed FAR via CKAN here is not the place to ask for support.

KSP + FAR + Tweakscale wings (without any other mods) = Levitation bug

KSP + Tweakscale wings (without any other mods) = All OK.

KSP + FAR + non tweakscale wings = All OK.

FAR mod download from this thread.

Edited May 8, 2016 by EagleXT

[tetryds]

Did you update FAR? There was a tweakscale bug where wigs got negative mass on FAR but that got fixed.

[varsass]

30 minutes ago, EagleXT said:

KSP + FAR + Tweakscale wings (without any other mods) = Levitation bug

KSP + Tweakscale wings (without any other mods) = All OK.

KSP + FAR + non tweakscale wings = All OK.

FAR mod download from this thread.

I have the same problem, with FAR 0.15.6.3, see screenshot below.

Spoiler

 

 

Edited May 8, 2016 by varsass

[Tricky14]

And tips for landing with the first wheels you get? I thought I came down gently with a pretty light craft, but the wheels pretty much evaporated on touchdown. Still very much used to stock aerodynamics, only just learned how to get in orbit again, so I'm probably doing something wrong.

[cantab]

1 hour ago, EagleXT said:

KSP + FAR + Tweakscale wings (without any other mods) = Levitation bug

And on page 483 people were talking about tweakscale causing problems with FAR.

As I understand it the bug still exists in FAR 0.15.6.3 but Ferram said he expects it to be fixed in the next FAR release.

[EagleXT]

1 hour ago, tetryds said:

Did you update FAR? There was a tweakscale bug where wigs got negative mass on FAR but that got fixed.

I'm using latest version FAR mod, downloading few hours ago from this thread.

[Svm420]

@ferram4

Figured out another "issue" with B9 Pwings. No tweakscale involved this time promise . It seems FAR takes the basemass from the part config, I.e. 50kg, and uses that as the mass it increases and decreases. So no matter how small and how low I tweak the wing strength slider they have a base 50kgs. I think that seems rather absurd for wings on a model rocket to weight an excess of 100lbs! So we can either ask the B9 maintainer to change mass in the cfg to 0, or rather insignificant amount like .001 in the presence of FAR simple, we(you) can make some changes to FAR code or we can have 100lb model rocket wings if we do nothing. For now I rolled option 1 myself will keep an eye out for any oddities. Thanks!

This was can be tested with latest dev Far and latest release b9wings.

1 Go into VAB place mk1 pod.

2 Attach b9 wing in default shape.

3 check total mass before and after wing note total of 805kg difference.

4 check FAR slider for current wing mass reads ~755kg

50kg difference  tweak it as small and low as the slider will go note total mass of at least 50kg.

Edited May 8, 2016 by Svm420

[Darael]

4 hours ago, Svm420 said:

@ferram4

Figured out another "issue" with B9 Pwings. No tweakscale involved this time promise . It seems FAR takes the basemass from the part config, I.e. 50kg, and uses that as the mass it increases and decreases. So no matter how small and how low I tweak the wing strength slider they have a base 50kgs. I think that seems rather absurd for wings on a model rocket to weight an excess of 100lbs! So we can either ask the B9 maintainer to change mass in the cfg to 0, or rather insignificant amount like .001 in the presence of FAR simple, we(you) can make some changes to FAR code or we can have 100lb model rocket wings if we do nothing. For now I rolled option 1 myself will keep an eye out for any oddities. Thanks!

This was can be tested with latest dev Far and latest release b9wings.

1 Go into VAB place mk1 pod.

2 Attach b9 wing in default shape.

3 check total mass before and after wing note total of 805kg difference.

4 check FAR slider for current wing mass reads ~755kg

50kg difference  tweak it as small and low as the slider will go note total mass of at least 50kg.

I'm with you as far as step 4, but for me, mass-strength will go down to 0.05 yielding curWingMass=0.03776, and that's without editing the PWing's shape.  If I set the shape to a rough approximation of, say, the AV-T1, then the two parts' curWingMass readouts are pretty much the same, as long as the mass-strength is the same, of course.  At minimum MS (which, again, is 0.05), that'sin the region of 3.5kg.  If I take the PWing down to its absolute minimum (length=root-width=0.063, tip-width=offset=0, thickness (root and tip)=0.040, no edges) then I get wing mass of 782g (7.81875E-5 t) at MS=1 and just under 4g at MS=0.05.

So I don't really see the issue.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Darael
more wing tweaking

[Tau137]

FAR + inflatable heat shield == really slow accent

Stock aero + inflatable heat shield == ok

[Squiggsy]

Hello, I recently started a new Realism Overhaul career since everything has been updated (thanks to all the modders involved honestly your work has been amazing!)

but unfortunately I have run into a problem with FAR, or FAR conflicting with one of the mods at the very least, which causes rockets to... go insane on the launch pad, they fly around effected by phantom forces and tear themselves apart, if they are attached to a launch clamp then they float upwards slowly until they are above the launch clamp and THEN start getting hit by the phantom forces. screenshot of the debug log is here:

 

 

 

and the output.log is here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/v8m7daj17p64r8d/output_log.txt?dl=0

I tried deleting FAR, reloaded the game up and everything worked absolutely fine, closed it down again, added a fresh download of FAR, loaded it up and the same problem persisted from before.

I am beginning to suspect, based on some of the discussion in earlier pages, that it is because I was using tweakscaled fins, this is because "Transform error in Basic Fin" is spammed quite a lot part way through the output log.

I hope that's enough information for you If you require any more just ask, I will try using non tweakscaled parts and see if that fixes the problem and report back.

EDIT: Yes I can confirm that the problem only exists with tweakscaled aero parts, it works absolutely fine the rest of the time.

Edited May 10, 2016 by Squiggsy

[Kmus]

Oh im glad i came here, i understand now why i have this annoying levitating bug.

 

Not using tweakscale on aero part stop levitating

[ferram4]

@Tricky14: That's called, "first stock wheels are borked, never use them."  I don't have any more advice there, I'm afraid.

@Svm420: Not possible.  FAR gets the prefab mass and then adjusts the mass change it reports so that it completely removes that.  If you could bring the mass-strength slider down to 0, the wing mass should become 0.  Only other option is that after creation pWings is setting the part mass from 50 kg to 100 kg and then letting FAR take over, and in that case it needs to stop doing that.  Nothing I can change.

@Tau137: Confirmed, tried to fix, cannot fix.  The mesh and colliders for that are simply not set up in a way that allows FAR to detect that the shape is completely continuous along the vehicle, and because of that there really isn't anything I can do to fix it.  When it's deployed, FAR models it correctly, but when it's folded up, FAR will provide higher drag than it should and without the colliders being lengthened and solidified (or the mesh being closed off) that'll never happen.  Trying to fix it on my end would be a nightmare of edge cases and terrible things happening, so it's not in the cards.

@Everyone going on about the damn Tweakscale bug: Please don't continue to report bugs that were mentioned to have been fixed in the dev build the page before.  Doing that just delays development and bugfixing because I have to check to make sure that I'm not missing something that I already fixed or that you're not using the dev builds and are reporting that the bug wasn't actually fixed.  It slows things down and creates confusion, so please don't.  I understand that you're trying to be helpful... but you're not right now.

[Kitspace]

Hello!

Does anybody know why stalling the flaps even a little bit creates a sudden pitch down moment so strong that it is pretty much impossible to pull out of the dive on a plane that is in any other conditions very comfortably controllable?

Also does the fat tail fin have some sort of angle limit on the animation of its rudder and does that affect the physical effect of the surface?

[John FX]

On 28/04/2016 at 5:29 AM, tetryds said:

@funkcanna did you install it via CKAN?

If not, remove and reinstall it, you may have installed it wrong, or maybe there is some other mod interfering.

If yes, don't expect support here, head over to the FAR CKAN support thread.

Myself I install FAR with CKAN then close down CKAN, delete the FAR folder and install it manually so I can get update notifications. Then when there is an update I repeat the process.

[Kitspace]

Does it not detect that you replaced the folder manually?

[blu3wolf]

It detects that the folder is still there. It doesnt scan your entire install folder when it starts up. Perhaps its meant to, but in the past Ive had to play games trying to get it to detect that a mod was removed.

For the sake of support I just install FAR manually. Ideally that would be the only autodetected mod, but theres a few usually while waiting for the metadata to get updated.

[Tortoise]

FAR has started crashing for me, for some reason. You mind looking over this? I'm on 64bit KSP 1.1.2

https://www.sendspace.com/file/lzajts

I'd launch a craft and play for a little bit, then come back to the SPH and all of a sudden FAR has a bunch of null references, and I can't do anything with FAR.

[ferram4]

@Kitspace: Because that's what happens when surfaces stall, they get large pitch down moments.  And the less-deflection-than-actually-happening visual is just an effect, it is deflecting as much as it should be.

@Tortoise: I'm not seeing the game end in a crash in there; did you link the wrong log file?  I do see FAR breaking somehow, but I need full and complete (read: causes the issue every time by only following those steps) reproduction steps to cause that as well as a full modlist.

[blu3wolf]

I thought when a surface stalls, it loses vertical damping?

[Tortoise]

47 minutes ago, ferram4 said:

@Kitspace: Because that's what happens when surfaces stall, they get large pitch down moments.  And the less-deflection-than-actually-happening visual is just an effect, it is deflecting as much as it should be.

@Tortoise: I'm not seeing the game end in a crash in there; did you link the wrong log file?  I do see FAR breaking somehow, but I need full and complete (read: causes the issue every time by only following those steps) reproduction steps to cause that as well as a full modlist.

Here's my mods:

And that's the right log. I know, it's weird. I tried to find out what's happening myself, but I couldn't see anything. All I do is: Start KSP -> Launch one of my vessels via the SPH -> Fly around -> Pause and return to SPH.

Then something like this appears:

 

EDIT: Here's another log, KSP.txt https://www.sendspace.com/file/je22yo

Edited May 13, 2016 by Tortoise