What You Need To Colonize Dinosaur World

[Spacescifi]

 

I played a marriage simulator where the setting was space colonization of a world that was similar to prehistoric times, just minus the dinos.

 

So it got me thinking what jobs would colonists absolutely need to have?

As in, what people are included in the colonists and which are not?

In the game I played, right away the MC's husband is a farmer, which makes plenty of sense, since the colony is only 200 strong. One of the scientists died doing radioacitve research to help the colony, and most of the colony is familes, several with lots of children. So it had me thinking... what would colonists' occupation be for a colony on a dinosaur world?

Here is a list I thought of:

1. Farmers to grow Earth crops on dino world.

2. Doctors and medical staff.

3. Breed stock families to grow the colony.

4. Counselors to deal with social and psychological issues that arise between colonists.

5. Architects for design.

6. Engineers to also help maintain stuff that is built.

7. Beasts of burden like donkeys, camels, and horses since we don't have paved roads... yet.

8. Butchers, but I suspect farmboys already have this covered more or less.

9. Hunters to hunt native wildlife plus protect colony from such.

 

That's all I could think of... what about you?

As a side point, I had a teacher who claimed colonists would not need a any religious people since he said colonists would make that up later anyway. Realistically though, colonists will take their beliefs with them, and even if they are all atheists there is a reasonably good chance one of their descendents turns religious later after the colony endures one tragedy or another. Since as the saying goes, 'No atheists in a fox hole with bombs and gunfire exploding around them.' Nevermind the human inability to accept death as the end of existence, which does reflect on religious thought to a large degree.

Notably the game included a nondenomination everything catch all counselor, which I thought was a nice touch of realism.

 

What do you think on this subject?

The whole subject?

Anything I missed or overlooked?

Edited June 21, 2020 by Spacescifi

[cubinator]

54 minutes ago, Spacescifi said:

7. Beasts of burden like donkeys, camels, and horses since we don't have paved roads... yet.

Nah, just robots. By that time they'll be smart enough to watch their step. Maybe organic "synths" like robots that can be constructed from animal materials if metals cannot be processed.
===================================
Where's the fun in a "dinosaur planet" that omits the dinosaurs? Coexisting with giant roaring apex predators and their gnashing teeth sounds like a much more entertaining story.

[adsii1970]

Geologists -

One of the things that fascinates me about the NASA was the late decision to send geologists to the Moon. Harrison "Jack" Schmitt was a trained geologist and it was NASA's hope that Apollo 18 would be commanded by him (for his second trip to the Moon) and he could do more research and sample collection. It was the belief of some of NASA's scientists that in order to establish a permanent presence on the Moon, we'd have to know what was there, and what we could realistically use.

I know your question is a theoretical question, @Spacescifi, and I did take a few minutes to formulate my response to it. On a primitive world, it would simply make sense you'd want a geologist. You'll need to know what mineral deposits are usable with little refinement. That would also probably be true of metallic ore deposits, too. And then you'd also want to know which minerals would be nearly impossible to use until refinement would be possible.

And with that said...

I'd love to see the scientists in KSP divided into specialties - medical, geologist, chemist, biologist... That way, you would have to really plan your missions and select your crew carefully.

 

[Nuke]

dino scale battlemechs.

[cubinator]

2 hours ago, adsii1970 said:

I'd love to see the scientists in KSP divided into specialties - medical, geologist, chemist, biologist...

...botanist...

[Spacescifi]

4 hours ago, cubinator said:

Nah, just robots. By that time they'll be smart enough to watch their step. Maybe organic "synths" like robots that can be constructed from animal materials if metals cannot be processed.
===================================
Where's the fun in a "dinosaur planet" that omits the dinosaurs? Coexisting with giant roaring apex predators and their gnashing teeth sounds like a much more entertaining story.

 

Robots cannot reproduce nor can they heal by resting and eating 'fuel'.

The computer game has low graphics, but makes up for it with story. It's more about the MCU wife either helping the colony to survive and keep her marriage intact... or do the exact opposite or a mix. Colony dies and everyone in it, marriage fails, or something less dark. It's all up to the player. So far it is ironic, because I have done a lot to show the MCU's husband that she loves him, but even with that he on occasion doubts it.

The game does not make it easy, that's for sure. And you have to balance work with MCU stress... which if too high will lead to MCU also destroying her marriage. Don't care  about job at all and stress goes down and relationship with husband improves, but. he colony likely dies or suffers terribly.

It's a delicate juggling act to be sure.

1 hour ago, Nuke said:

dino scale battlemechs.

 

Inefficient. Better off putting remote controlled gun turrets around the colony. Missile turrets if bullets are not enough. T-rex will not tank all of that.

32 minutes ago, cubinator said:

...botanist...

Indeed.

Why not be a botanist?

For the MC inthe game I chose doctor.

So the colony really does need here.

[natsirt721]

I think you got more or less everything covered, but depending on the nature of the colony some of those may not be strictly necessary. I'm assuming that the environment is friendly or at worst neutral to a human presence, apart from the local fauna - the air is breathable, the temperature is temperate, the soil is rich enough for cultivation. If you don't have some of those then the colony would need some higher tech levels in order to provide e.g. artificial fertilizer, or perhaps advanced drugs to allow humans to digest the local flora, or suits or breathing apparatus - things that would pose serious detriments to the colonists if they were not present.

If the colony is relatively accessible, then it can probably sustain a high tech level and can grow rapidly. In this case, you would probably start with a post-industrial tech level. Farming would be largely mechanized, and the colony would closely resemble a small modern town - shops for selling imported or exported goods, healthcare services, perhaps an open-air market for local artisans, but otherwise any profession that you could find in a town of say, 5000 people or so you would probably have there. The colony would start small but would grow quickly if the opportunity for free or subsidized land was accessible to laypeople from the homeworld, and ships would arrive regularly bringing more people, manufactured goods, and other necessities the colony couldn't produce for itself. Within a few decades the population would swell to the point where it was more or less producing all the technical goods that it required, and would be on par with a small city from the homeworld. In order of priority from your original list, here's how I think the population distribution would go in decreasing size:

• 5 & 6: architects and engineers. I'm considering the people that do the construction as engineers, although many of them would be working under an engineer and may be unskilled laborers. With the colony growing rapidly, the need for new buildings and infrastructure is going to be large, so most of the population would be dedicated to either construction or bootstrapping the industrial capacity of the colony
• 1: farmers. Farming would be at least partially mechanized, and in some circumstanced may be entirely automated. Still, the farmers would be responsible for maintaining the machinery and providing raw inputs (fertilizer & seeds) and moving food to the populated center. More people means more mouths to feed, so farmers could make up a significant fraction of the population if the work is less automated.
• Law enforcement. You touch on this with 9: hunters a bit, but law enforcement's role would be more defense of the colony and internal conflict management rather than food acquisition. If the environment is sufficiently hostile, this camp could even be the largest proportion of the population (e.g. RDA security from Avatar).
• Bureaucrats: someone has to manage the limited resources of the new colony, and nobody better suited to do that than a burgeoning bureaucracy. initially, the bureaucracy may be tiny or nonexistent, but would grow as more concerns needed addressing by central leadership. This category also includes the 'mayor' and other public servants.
• 2, 4, 8, and everything else: In this scenario, the population is expanding rapidly, so most other fields of specialization would come quickly as more people arrived. Doctors and medical staff would likely be on the first ship down, but aided by their technology and the small size of the colony it is unlikely they would be a significant fraction of the population.
• Scientific staff: as mentioned by others, scientists would love to get their hands on a new world. If the world is totally fresh, then a wide variety of scientists would be vying for a seat o the colony, but in general they would be a smaller proportion of the initial population.
• There would be no need for 7 or 3, beasts of burden would be replaced with mechanical counterparts, and no breedstock would be required due to the constant external influx of people from the homeworld.

If the colony is not accessible, than things are going to be a little different. In this scenario, it is either hard or expensive to get from the homeworld either due to the cost of interstellar travel, the travel time from the homeworld, or other economic factors. Ships arrive once in a while, but the cadence is significantly slower or perhaps even nonexistent (abandoned colony scenario). For the colonists to survive here, regardless of their original tech level (which we can assume is significant, after all they are interstellar colonists), it is likely that they would adopt a more primitive lifestyle, probably around 1800's tech. The original settlement would be augmented with high-tech things from the original settlers, but the majority of people would likely start out as farmers, supporting a bare minimum number of other specialized professions. Unless the seed colony was large enough to start an industrial base on its own, it is unlikely that they would be able to maintain the high-tech things they brought with them for an extended period of time. In this scenario, it takes decades to even begin the process of industrialization, spurred on by what little technology they have functioning at that time. As above, the roles in decreasing size:

• 1: Farmers. Farming in this scenario is a manual process, so most people are going to produce their own food. Unlike the previous scenario, the vast majority of people would likely be farmers or otherwise employed getting food (hunters, butchers, etc), perhaps upwards of 80% of the total initial population
• 7: beasts of burden. Either imported or domesticated from local fauna, beasts of burden would provide much of the 'tractive effort' of the fledgling colony, especially assisting with farming and transportation needs
• law enforecment, doctors, and engineer(s), and more: The central area of the colony would be small, but it would have most of the necessary professions to keep life going. A professional engineer to repair gizmos (if they are able), a doctor or two for when people get sick and to provide counseling needs, and other basic professions: a tavern, a cooper, a smithy, a potter, a teacher for basic education of children (advanced education would either be inaccessible as children would work on the farms, or done via apprenticeships), basically everything you would find in an early 19th century prairie town.
• scientific staff, again in the central area. Depending on the circumstances of the settling of the colony, they may not be present at all.
• There would be no need for breed stock - everyone would be part of the of the breed stock, there is no reason to have people specialize in that. What I might see possible is a sperm/egg bank, or even zygotes for IVF - 200 people is not enough genetic diversity without purposefully introducing mutations in newborns. 

 

 

 

[kerbiloid]

1. Dino scepticists. They will explain to the dinos that they've never existed.

2. Rednecks on pickups. To finish the rest.

Edited June 22, 2020 by kerbiloid

[Spacescifi]

3 hours ago, natsirt721 said:

I think you got more or less everything covered, but depending on the nature of the colony some of those may not be strictly necessary. I'm assuming that the environment is friendly or at worst neutral to a human presence, apart from the local fauna - the air is breathable, the temperature is temperate, the soil is rich enough for cultivation. If you don't have some of those then the colony would need some higher tech levels in order to provide e.g. artificial fertilizer, or perhaps advanced drugs to allow humans to digest the local flora, or suits or breathing apparatus - things that would pose serious detriments to the colonists if they were not present.

If the colony is relatively accessible, then it can probably sustain a high tech level and can grow rapidly. In this case, you would probably start with a post-industrial tech level. Farming would be largely mechanized, and the colony would closely resemble a small modern town - shops for selling imported or exported goods, healthcare services, perhaps an open-air market for local artisans, but otherwise any profession that you could find in a town of say, 5000 people or so you would probably have there. The colony would start small but would grow quickly if the opportunity for free or subsidized land was accessible to laypeople from the homeworld, and ships would arrive regularly bringing more people, manufactured goods, and other necessities the colony couldn't produce for itself. Within a few decades the population would swell to the point where it was more or less producing all the technical goods that it required, and would be on par with a small city from the homeworld. In order of priority from your original list, here's how I think the population distribution would go in decreasing size:

• 5 & 6: architects and engineers. I'm considering the people that do the construction as engineers, although many of them would be working under an engineer and may be unskilled laborers. With the colony growing rapidly, the need for new buildings and infrastructure is going to be large, so most of the population would be dedicated to either construction or bootstrapping the industrial capacity of the colony
• 1: farmers. Farming would be at least partially mechanized, and in some circumstanced may be entirely automated. Still, the farmers would be responsible for maintaining the machinery and providing raw inputs (fertilizer & seeds) and moving food to the populated center. More people means more mouths to feed, so farmers could make up a significant fraction of the population if the work is less automated.
• Law enforcement. You touch on this with 9: hunters a bit, but law enforcement's role would be more defense of the colony and internal conflict management rather than food acquisition. If the environment is sufficiently hostile, this camp could even be the largest proportion of the population (e.g. RDA security from Avatar).
• Bureaucrats: someone has to manage the limited resources of the new colony, and nobody better suited to do that than a burgeoning bureaucracy. initially, the bureaucracy may be tiny or nonexistent, but would grow as more concerns needed addressing by central leadership. This category also includes the 'mayor' and other public servants.
• 2, 4, 8, and everything else: In this scenario, the population is expanding rapidly, so most other fields of specialization would come quickly as more people arrived. Doctors and medical staff would likely be on the first ship down, but aided by their technology and the small size of the colony it is unlikely they would be a significant fraction of the population.
• Scientific staff: as mentioned by others, scientists would love to get their hands on a new world. If the world is totally fresh, then a wide variety of scientists would be vying for a seat o the colony, but in general they would be a smaller proportion of the initial population.
• There would be no need for 7 or 3, beasts of burden would be replaced with mechanical counterparts, and no breedstock would be required due to the constant external influx of people from the homeworld.

If the colony is not accessible, than things are going to be a little different. In this scenario, it is either hard or expensive to get from the homeworld either due to the cost of interstellar travel, the travel time from the homeworld, or other economic factors. Ships arrive once in a while, but the cadence is significantly slower or perhaps even nonexistent (abandoned colony scenario). For the colonists to survive here, regardless of their original tech level (which we can assume is significant, after all they are interstellar colonists), it is likely that they would adopt a more primitive lifestyle, probably around 1800's tech. The original settlement would be augmented with high-tech things from the original settlers, but the majority of people would likely start out as farmers, supporting a bare minimum number of other specialized professions. Unless the seed colony was large enough to start an industrial base on its own, it is unlikely that they would be able to maintain the high-tech things they brought with them for an extended period of time. In this scenario, it takes decades to even begin the process of industrialization, spurred on by what little technology they have functioning at that time. As above, the roles in decreasing size:

• 1: Farmers. Farming in this scenario is a manual process, so most people are going to produce their own food. Unlike the previous scenario, the vast majority of people would likely be farmers or otherwise employed getting food (hunters, butchers, etc), perhaps upwards of 80% of the total initial population
• 7: beasts of burden. Either imported or domesticated from local fauna, beasts of burden would provide much of the 'tractive effort' of the fledgling colony, especially assisting with farming and transportation needs
• law enforecment, doctors, and engineer(s), and more: The central area of the colony would be small, but it would have most of the necessary professions to keep life going. A professional engineer to repair gizmos (if they are able), a doctor or two for when people get sick and to provide counseling needs, and other basic professions: a tavern, a cooper, a smithy, a potter, a teacher for basic education of children (advanced education would either be inaccessible as children would work on the farms, or done via apprenticeships), basically everything you would find in an early 19th century prairie town.
• scientific staff, again in the central area. Depending on the circumstances of the settling of the colony, they may not be present at all.
• There would be no need for breed stock - everyone would be part of the of the breed stock, there is no reason to have people specialize in that. What I might see possible is a sperm/egg bank, or even zygotes for IVF - 200 people is not enough genetic diversity without purposefully introducing mutations in newborns. 

 

 

 

Travel time is near hard-scifi, since vessels somehow travel at the speed of light, time dialation and all.

The next supply vessel is due to drop in two Earth years, which to the MC on Talaam is about 30 months.

 

Ingame the alien world known as Talaam has several differences with Earth.

It's a bit closer to the sun, has two moons, and has a thicker atmospheric blanket.

Apparently it's not so thick that it is like Venus... still if applying what I think I know of science I would expect Talaam to be very arid... unless it had abundant water... which to the makers of the game's credit it does.  It has oceans as vast as Earth's and plenty of freshwater lakes too. Due to atmospheric pressure being higher than Earth, water takes longer to boil. Also don't leave dishes over night!

The MC's husband agreed to do them after I told him to, forgot, and we woke next morning to a centipede the size of a snake in the kitchen! Thicker oxygen in air, bigger insects, which is quite scientifically accurate. Wildlife is either annoying or hostile so far.

The MC wife jogged to a nearby secluded lake, dipped her legs, came out, and saw dozens of tiny alien leeches! What made it worse is they secrete a kind of anesthetic, making her legs go limp. I had no choice but for her to radio her husband or she would have been stuck lying on the shore of the lake all night. And he came like some hero riding the horse he brought from Earth to rescue her, afterward chiding her not to out alone again. Even though you can ingame.... I have no idea what would happen if I did, but I am scared to try, since your character can apparently die and end the game.

Edited June 22, 2020 by Spacescifi

[Scotius]

Is there an illegal moonshine still already in the colony? And a Seamstress Guild set up somewhere? Poker den? Saloon with bad music and watered down drinks?

Because when people want entertainment, they will get entertainment.

[kerbiloid]

I would just take as an example the thrillers about the Australian countryside and replace kangaroos with similarly looking raptors.

Kinda "Revenge of Kangaraptors in Outer Space"

Edited June 22, 2020 by kerbiloid

[Nightside]

As explained in Jurassic Park, dinosaurs are essentially large birds, and birds are both easily tamed and good eatin’. 

A dino kill would feed a small colony for years, and would probably be a high demand black market export. So you wouldn’t need any farmers or beasts of burden.

 

[Spacescifi]

5 hours ago, Nightside said:

As explained in Jurassic Park, dinosaurs are essentially large birds, and birds are both easily tamed and good eatin’. 

A dino kill would feed a small colony for years, and would probably be a high demand black market export. So you wouldn’t need any farmers or beasts of burden.

 

 

I am not so sure  Jurassic Park movie logic would apply as to their behavior.

It is well known that domestic animals are easier to train, whereas wild animals are really hard to train to the same exteny as a dog or cat. There is a difference, much like trying to train a horse vs a zebra.

As for farming, people wil want more than meat, and if the science is true, then bring modern fruit may be a boon... as it won't exist on dino world.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/hummingdinosaur.wordpress.com/2014/09/21/fruit-for-dinosaurs-botany-for-paleoartists-part-ii/amp/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/hummingdinosaur.wordpress.com/2014/09/21/fruit-for-dinosaurs-botany-for-paleoartists-part-ii/amp/

Edited June 22, 2020 by Spacescifi

[Scotius]

Even today not every bird meat is edible. Or at least palatable. Additionally, vast majority of domesticated animals are:

A: Mammals, which are generally more intelligent than even smartest dinosaurs were.

B: Product of hundreds or thousands of years of behavioral modifications by humans. Which also happens to work both ways. Not only animals learned to be docile and obedient towards humans - we too learned how to interpret and understand their behavior, needs and quirks.

And last but not least - let's keep in mind that animals around us carry many diseases that can jump to humans and in many cases kill us. Due to generations of exposure we gained some levels of resistance to many diseases. But being exposed to a whole new biosphere worth of microbes will bring a lot of new health hazards.

[Nightside]

Isn't a Dino planet more timetravel SciFi? Reminds me of this: 

 

1 hour ago, Scotius said:

Additionally, vast majority of domesticated animals are:

A: Mammals

What about chickens, ducks, geese, parrots, eagles, hawks, falcons, cormorants, and other trainable birds? I don't see why training a predatory dinosaur would be that different from a hunting falcon. You just need a thicker glove. 

1 hour ago, Scotius said:

: Mammals, which are generally more intelligent than even smartest dinosaurs were.

If they were so smart, why'd they get domesticated? That doesn't usually end well.

[kerbiloid]

6 hours ago, Nightside said:

why training a predatory dinosaur would be that different from a hunting falcon

The birds and crocodiles are the most developed between reptiles, and the smartest of them.

Afaik, the only thing you can train a snake or a lizard is to come on knocking for food.

6 hours ago, Nightside said:

If they were so smart, why'd they get domesticated? That doesn't usually end well.

1. They weren't asked.

2. There are from tens of millions (horses, cows) to hundreds of millions (cats, dogs) to tens of billions (sheep/goats) of domesticated animals.
Any same numerous wild animals?

[wumpus]

17 hours ago, Spacescifi said:

 

I am not so sure  Jurassic Park movie logic would apply as to their behavior.

It is well known that domestic animals are easier to train, whereas wild animals are really hard to train to the same exteny as a dog or cat. There is a difference, much like trying to train a horse vs a zebra.

As for farming, people wil want more than meat, and if the science is true, then bring modern fruit may be a boon... as it won't exist on dino world.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/hummingdinosaur.wordpress.com/2014/09/21/fruit-for-dinosaurs-botany-for-paleoartists-part-ii/amp/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/hummingdinosaur.wordpress.com/2014/09/21/fruit-for-dinosaurs-botany-for-paleoartists-part-ii/amp/

Animals that were easy to train became domesticated (there are depictions of people trying to domesticate jackals and cheetahs on pyramids, they tried everything over the years), those that weren't either remained wild or were driven to extinction.

Some dinos are believed to have extreme growth rates.  Depending on how much food they need (not a problem on a new colony), they might make excellent food livestock.

Parrots and covids are some of the most intelligent life on Earth, so you might get some intelligent dinosaurs out of the mix.  Which leads to a startling suspicion that the asteroid and other issues weren't the cause of the end of the dinosaurs, but the effects of dinosaur civilization collapsing (presumably they were mining an iridium asteroid in M/LEO and then couldn't keep it up indefinitely).  Even if such were possible, the assumption would be that you wouldn't find such a society (unless it was in near stasis) because of how short it would live (or possibly just leave the planet).

[kerbiloid]

Smart dinos became birds. Stupid ones got extinct.

[Scotius]

Encephalization quotient (roughly mass of brain\mass of body ratio) of Troodontid dinosaurs - which are considered most intelligent of dinosaurs, reached roughly 63% of the way between non-dinosaurian reptiles and modern birds. Comparing that to modern mammals, Troodontids were about as intelligent as... rabbits. Less advanced theropods had brains more similar to crocodiles and alligators than to birds.

[kerbiloid]

Afaik, the encephalization quotient means not very much, as the greater is the body mass, the more repeating neuron structures in the brain is required to power the muscles.

[Nightside]

So definitely rideable.

[Scotius]

4 hours ago, Nightside said:

So definitely rideable.

Oh, absolutely

But would they make a good mount?

Horses and camels are anatomically and physiologically well adapted for quick, efficient and most importantly, long distance running. I'm afraid we don't know enough about dinosaur physiology and metabolism to be able to ascertain which ones could match the performance of a horse carrying a rider.

[kerbiloid]

Maybe then better a giant birds world? (diatryma, gastornis, phorusrhacos) than their inferior scaly ancestors?

[Nightside]

As @Spacescifi hinted up thread, you could get a jump start on evolution by bringing fruit crops, which are more edible to humans than most plants. The downside of this is that since these are the only flowering plants on the world there would be no native pollinators. You’d have to bring your own. 

[kerbiloid]

Once we bring terrestrial predators and rodents, the dinos of any size have no chances.

Poaceae are self-pollinated, they don;t need pollinators.