Science

[jimmymcgoochie]

Don’t wait for contracts or you’ll be waiting forever. Just go for the Mun and leave the boring tourist-to-orbit runs behind.

Stick science bits on the sides of an OKTO probe core with batteries and solar panels to transmit the data, then just lob it at the Mun and get all the science you can. You can easily get a free return trajectory to come back from a Mun flyby with no extra fuel used which is great for bringing back mystery goo and materials bay samples, and use an experiment return box to drop them into the atmosphere as the probe itself burns up (materials bays are very hard to recover).

It’s easy to hit the Mun’s SOI even by eye, just burn prograde when the Mun is directly in front of you and you’ll get there; Minmus is a bit trickier due to its inclined orbit, but pays off with higher science values and lower gravity meaning you can land there cove less delta-V than on the Mun even including the greater delta-V to get there from Kerbin.

[Anonymous49]

28 minutes ago, VoidSquid said:

It says "Built in the VAB in KSP version 1.11.0.", I have reverted to 1.10.1 (1.11.0 has too many bugs for my taste), hence I can't load your craft, sorry.

EDIT: ok, modified the craft file, could load it now. 
The problem I see here, you're not using any RCS, how would you do the docking without, in particular as the docking ports are radial mounted, not axial (e.g. on top of the OKTO)?

Do you have access to RCS fuel and the RCS thrusters?

I also see a few other issues here, e.g. the three Terriers are not in line with the vertical axis but all point slightly outwards. This results in a waste of thrust and fuel as they are partially working against each other (15 degrees angle -> sin (15) = 0.26 -> 26% loss) instead of providing prograde thrust. Same with the six Thuds at the bottom.

uh with the second stage

I don't have rcs yet

[VoidSquid]

3 minutes ago, Anonymous49 said:

I don't have rcs yet

With a docking port in line with the prograde axis, it wouldn't be easy to perform the docking without RCS. But with radial docking ports, it's close to impossible.

I suggest you follow @jimmymcgoochie's advise and collect some science from space around Mun, and/or around the KSC (see my previous post for that), to have access to more parts.

Edited January 13, 2021 by VoidSquid

[jimmymcgoochie]

Each experiment will give you data for different situations- landed, splashed down, flying low/high and space low/high- and many are also biome-sensitive so will give you science for each different biomes you run the experiment in.

Farm the KSC biomes first, or install the KEI mod to do it for you with one click (saves driving around the KSC repeatedly each time you unlock a new science experiment), then try and reach other biomes on Kerbin- you can reach Shores, Grasslands, Highlands, Mountains and Deserts going due west from KSC and Oceans by going east a bit beyond the islands, then build a long-distance plane and fly due north until you hit Tundra, Ice Cap and Northern Ice Shelf (there’s a weird little sliver of Southern Ice Shelf in the north almost due north of KSC at the edge of the ice caps, use KerbNet, SCANsat or the show biomes cheat to track it down and save a trip to the other pole) and then head to the opposite side of Kerbin from the KSC to find the Badlands and complete the collection. It takes a bit of time to do and the rewards aren’t huge, but that science could unlock something useful to expand your space program and head further afield, like the Mun or Minmus.

A small fleet of tiny landers can get a lot of science from the Mun (or Minmus, but it has fewer biomes) fairly cheaply across different biomes. Rovers are even better as they can move to different biomes, just be careful not to crash! Each large crater on the Mun is its own biome, plus some areas like canyons and basins which are visible from orbit; pretty much every planet/moon’s poles are also a different biome, but terrain can get pretty weird at high latitudes so be careful when trying to go there.

[Spricigo]

4 hours ago, Anonymous49 said:

can anyone pls try to fly this thing and dock the whole thing and teach me (hopefully in sandbox)

I will instead suggest that you get a craft optimized for docking practice and try it on a sandbox save. Docking is already hard enough to learn without the need to deal with misaligned/unbalanced thrust.

The problem is not that docking requires superior hand-eye coordination or reaction time (it doesn't) but it requires to get in a different mindset than the one that we use for earthbound activities.

 

[Anonymous49]

right, i guess i will revendous (i dont know how to spell it) a capsule with the station and EVA the crew to transfer it

[Anonymous49]

how do i rendezvous with the station guys

or if not, can i undock a capsule from another one and dock it together again?

[Anonymous49]

8 hours ago, Spricigo said:

I will instead suggest that you get a craft optimized for docking practice and try it on a sandbox save. Docking is already hard enough to learn without the need to deal with misaligned/unbalanced thrust.

The problem is not that docking requires superior hand-eye coordination or reaction time (it doesn't) but it requires to get in a different mindset than the one that we use for earthbound activities.

 

so im trying rendezvous a capsule with the first module, since there is a hole (i call it a "depressurized seat") in the back. But that is definitely not how my crew will get in. It's covered by the thrice engine second stage. The reason why i chose to use 3 909 engines instead of a swivel engine is because of its efficiency and have similar gimbal. It's the docking engine. So I thought of going inside with the backup way. The ladder in the command pod (yes, that is the "backup way") would be how to crew will get in. At the same time. I wanted Valentina Kerman to come back down to Kerbin for my second segment. She's happier.

I know the space station is safe but I'll have Valentina do science activities

But I have a question right now, what will happen if my crew cabins ran out of electricity before my second module get launched

and how could Bill Kerman add rcs thrusters when i have them to dock

How could I transfer electric charge from the empty command pod to the station?

[Spricigo]

2 hours ago, Anonymous49 said:

The reason why i chose to use 3 909 engines instead of a swivel engine is because of its efficiency and have similar gimbal. It's the docking engine.

I get from your other posts/threads that those are what you have available right now. However both are inadequate for docking. 

You want precision over anything else for docking, which usually means the smaller engines* you can get.  If those are RCS thrusters it also means that you can keep the orientation while maneuvering in a different direction (technically, could be done with regular engines but is not practical ) 

 

*the lower weight may also result in more available deltaV because of how mass fractions work

[Anonymous49]

i switched... i changed to  rendezvous with the station and EVA the crew. But the problem is that I could only get the descending node to -0.1

after many tries and support from the infinite fuel cheat, i finally got the nodes to 0.0

[Anonymous49]

and then it turned back to ~10 degrees

[Anonymous49]

i gave up... not because of anything, because i ran out of fuel and it is going to splash down

[paul_c]

If you run out of fuel, surely it will stay (be stuck) in orbit?

[Anonymous49]

On 1/13/2021 at 1:14 PM, Spricigo said:

If you provide a screenshot of your current tech tree, we may help to design a craft for that task.

 

 

https://ibb.co/k1C4jhG

[Popestar]

@Anonymous49

I applaud your effort to do this manually.  Docking is hard.  And I appreciate you writing to let us know where you are at and how you are progressing!

With that said, have you tried using MechJeb for this task?  MJ will do all the heavy lifting on this, such as burns and timing and lining things up and such.  All you gotta do is build the rocket and tell MJ what to dock with.

[Anonymous49]

3 minutes ago, Popestar said:

@Anonymous49

I applaud your effort to do this manually.  Docking is hard.  And I appreciate you writing to let us know where you are at and how you are progressing!

With that said, have you tried using MechJeb for this task?  MJ will do all the heavy lifting on this, such as burns and timing and lining things up and such.  All you gotta do is build the rocket and tell MJ what to dock with.

downloaded it, restarted ksp for this

[Popestar]

I am still learning how to use MJ myself, and I can say that I would not even try landing any more without it.  If you need help, just ask!  I may not know the answer off the top of my head, but I can always fire it up and try to figure it out and let you know what happens!

[Anonymous49]

ok, thanks. How to use mechjeb btw. I am currently inside vab

[VoidSquid]

6 minutes ago, Popestar said:

Docking is hard

Thankfully there a a couple of little helpers available. If you prefer to dock manually (don't forget those RCS thrusters btw  ) but still don't like like walking in the dark and hurt your toes, you might want to try out 

 

This mods provides you with graphical and numerical data, shows you how to align your craft and in which direction you should move. It's you though who does the work, in contrast to MJ.

[Anonymous49]

so does that mean that it can dock with sas

how can i dock via mechjeb

im on the launch pad

[VoidSquid]

4 minutes ago, Popestar said:

I can say that I would not even try landing any more without it

Interesting! When I began with KSP, landing was by far the most difficult task for me. Crashed and crashed and crashed, totally hated to game! Luckily I found MJ and let it show me how to do it. 

Fast forward, nowadays I much prefer to do landing manually, much more control over the whole thingy. And in particular on CBs with atmosphere, MJ failed more often than not (might have changed in the meantime though)

6 minutes ago, Anonymous49 said:

so does that mean that it can dock with sas

The DPAI mod you mean?

As I said, YOU do everything, DPAI just provides you with data.

MJ can do the whole docking process for you, you just lean back and watch.

[Anonymous49]

i am talking about MJ

i wanna rendevous to the station

how do i use mechjeb for that?

[VoidSquid]

To use MJ's docking module, it's best to have both crafts close together already, say 100 or 200 m. You can, as @Popestar already mentioned, offload that task too, MJ has a module for rendezvous too, which is best to be triggered if your craft is already in orbit. And - surprise, surprise - MJ has a module too that can bring your rocket into orbit.

If you like, I could show you that in a Twitch stream, let me know.

[Anonymous49]

ok

[Clamp-o-Tron]

11 minutes ago, Anonymous49 said:

so does that mean that it can dock with sas

how can i dock via mechjeb

im on the launch pad

First open the MechJeb tab, and press the button that says "Ascent Guidance." Type in the approximate orbit of your target (I always go 10% lower if that's outside of the atmosphere, to save a spot of delta-V and time in rendezvous.), and enable guidance. If all goes well and your rocket is built well, you'll reach orbit.

Next, close that window and pull up the "Rendezvous Autopilot". Set your destination as target and enable guidance.

After you arrive within a couple hundred meters of your target (you may want to manually disable the autopilot, as it gets buggy very near to the target), find a way to right-click on any part in your target vessel, with a bit of messing around with the camera, and click "Aim Camera". This will help with accuracy as you right-click on your docking port and set it as your target. If this option doesn't show up, get your ship closer manually until it does. Reset your camera now.

Finally, open MJ's "Docking Autopilot", right click on your docking port and select "control from here". The yellow warnings on the Docking Autopilot window should go away, and you can enable it to take you in to dock (with significant RCS thruster use, but that's a small problem).