[Min KSP 1.12.X] Sandcastle: 3D printing for parts and vessels

[Angelo Kerman]

I finally got the Shipbreaker UI done and most of the bugs worked out. Here's a preview:

There's more to do with the Shipwright- the Shipbreaker gave me some ideas- but I'm almost done with this update. Oh, and in addition to multiple Shipbreakers on the same vessel, now it'll support Shipbreakers helping out from other vessels. The Shipwright will do the same once I'm done.

[KspNoobUsernameTaken]

Is this going to be as configurable as the rest of sandcastle? The thing I like least about EPL is that configuring it is a very weird process.

[Angelo Kerman]

14 hours ago, KspNoobUsernameTaken said:

Is this going to be as configurable as the rest of sandcastle? The thing I like least about EPL is that configuring it is a very weird process.

Configurable in what way? The Shipwright honors all the settings from MaterialsList.cfg, for instance.

[KspNoobUsernameTaken]

3 hours ago, Angelo Kerman said:

The Shipwright honors all the settings from MaterialsList.cfg, for instance.

That's what I was interested in. Sounds good!

[Angelo Kerman]

Small update: Sandcastle now has Game Settings.

Normally when recycling a vessel or parts of it, Sandcastle will wait until the kerbals have vacated the part. Normally... If for some reason you don't want to bother with that check, you can disable it. I'm undecided if, when "recycling" kerbals, they'll generate Snacks...

[KspNoobUsernameTaken]

53 minutes ago, Angelo Kerman said:

I'm undecided if, when "recycling" kerbals, they'll generate Snacks...

I would love this. I could use MoarKerbals to generate kerbals then recycle them for Snacks.

[Grenartia]

2 hours ago, Angelo Kerman said:

Small update: Sandcastle now has Game Settings.

Normally when recycling a vessel or parts of it, Sandcastle will wait until the kerbals have vacated the part. Normally... If for some reason you don't want to bother with that check, you can disable it. I'm undecided if, when "recycling" kerbals, they'll generate Snacks...

Wouldn't it be more ""appropriate"" for them to generate soil?

Also, while you're here, I've noticed a setting under Wild Blue that mentions weldable docking ports. But there's nothing under it, with or without Konstruction installed. Is that intentional?

Edited August 12 by Grenartia

[JadeOfMaar]

3 hours ago, KspNoobUsernameTaken said:

I would love this. I could use MoarKerbals to generate kerbals then recycle them for Snacks.

That sounds really roundabout and inefficient. (In addition to possibly violating several ethical standards.)

2 hours ago, Grenartia said:

Wouldn't it be more ""appropriate"" for them to generate soil?

Soil and some Ore... (see: CHONPS)

[Angelo Kerman]

3 hours ago, Grenartia said:

Wouldn't it be more ""appropriate"" for them to generate soil?

Also, while you're here, I've noticed a setting under Wild Blue that mentions weldable docking ports. But there's nothing under it, with or without Konstruction installed. Is that intentional?

That WBI setting is from a long time ago. I tried making weldable docking ports and couldn't get it to work. I'll have to remove that next time I go through Wild Blue Tools.

[Grenartia]

On 8/11/2024 at 10:34 PM, JadeOfMaar said:

That sounds really roundabout and inefficient. (In addition to possibly violating several ethical standards.)

Soil and some Ore... (see: CHONPS)

I figured those were already in soil, tbh. 

On 8/11/2024 at 11:28 PM, Angelo Kerman said:

That WBI setting is from a long time ago. I tried making weldable docking ports and couldn't get it to work. I'll have to remove that next time I go through Wild Blue Tools.

I'm sorry you couldn't manage it. Weldable ports are literally the only reason I use Konstruction, and it'd be nice to have that feature either in a standalone mod, or bundled in a mod set I already enjoy. 

[JadeOfMaar]

11 hours ago, Grenartia said:

I figured those were already in soil, tbh. 

Well that gives me something to think about.

11 hours ago, Grenartia said:

Weldable ports are literally the only reason I use Konstruction

Strongly agree.

[Angelo Kerman]

11 hours ago, Grenartia said:

I figured those were already in soil, tbh. 

I'm sorry you couldn't manage it. Weldable ports are literally the only reason I use Konstruction, and it'd be nice to have that feature either in a standalone mod, or bundled in a mod set I already enjoy. 

I don't have weldable docking ports but I do have a disposable construction pad (replaces the pad with the constructed vessel, welding it to where the pad was) on my TODO list, but it won't be in the next release. Right now I'm focused on the basic functionality of building and spawning vessels as well as recycling them. I'm currently chasing bugs related to spawning rovers and vessels with launch clamps, but once that's sorted I'll finally be able to post the latest Sandcastle.

[Grenartia]

22 minutes ago, Angelo Kerman said:

I don't have weldable docking ports but I do have a disposable construction pad (replaces the pad with the constructed vessel, welding it to where the pad was) on my TODO list, but it won't be in the next release. Right now I'm focused on the basic functionality of building and spawning vessels as well as recycling them. I'm currently chasing bugs related to spawning rovers and vessels with launch clamps, but once that's sorted I'll finally be able to post the latest Sandcastle.

To be fair, I believe the Konstruction license is permissive enough to take a stab at implementing a standalone version. I'm very on the fence about committing to doing it, though. 

[Grenartia]

55 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

Well that gives me something to think about.

Strongly agree.

But yeah, getting (somewhat) back on topic, I figure soil has two meanings, and seems to be interchangeable with both. 

1: Biological waste (obvious)
2: Dirt

Definition 1 wouldn't necessarily include the kinds of materials I'd expect in ore (though if we're talking about cadavers, that includes bones, as well as space suits, so I can see the Ore argument).
Definition 2 feels more inclusive in general. Dirt is mostly biological waste with a smattering of various kinds of inorganic components (i.e., ore). 

Either way, it makes logical sense. 

[Angelo Kerman]

9 hours ago, Grenartia said:

To be fair, I believe the Konstruction license is permissive enough to take a stab at implementing a standalone version. I'm very on the fence about committing to doing it, though. 

It would be on brand to have in Sandcastle, I just don't have the bandwidth yet for it. Once I tackle the basic functionality of vessel printing though, I've got plans- like a Breaking Ground-like deployable printer, and an item like the Mass Effect Omni Tool printing small items and placing them into the kerbal's inventory.

At least I'm getting there. Now the rover doesn't spawn into the ground:

... But I have to figure out the rotation...

[ttikkoo]

21 hours ago, Grenartia said:

I'm sorry you couldn't manage it. Weldable ports are literally the only reason I use Konstruction, and it'd be nice to have that feature either in a standalone mod, or bundled in a mod set I already enjoy. 

DockRotate also has welding - I'm not sure if the end result is the same as Konstruction however. I prefer DockRotate for welding over Konstruction as the rotating feature is something that's better than stock whereas the other Konstruction parts I've never been able to get functioning properly.

 

Very excited about this update!

[SergeantBlueforce]

Out of interest, how does this mod determine the printing cost of parts added by other mods, and if they can be printed at all?

[Angelo Kerman]

5 hours ago, SergeantBlueforce said:

Out of interest, how does this mod determine the printing cost of parts added by other mods, and if they can be printed at all?

Printing costs are based on the mass of the part. It can handle part variants but at present it cannot handle B9PS.

[SergeantBlueforce]

Shouldn't monetary cost also be a factor in some way? Perhaps fabrication time to abstractly represent complexity?

[Clancythecat]

Will the "EL-OCD construction manipulator" also have this new Shipwright system?

[Angelo Kerman]

On 8/22/2024 at 7:50 PM, SergeantBlueforce said:

Shouldn't monetary cost also be a factor in some way? Perhaps fabrication time to abstractly represent complexity?

These aren't insta-build. Just as it takes time to 3D print a part, it takes time to 3D print a whole vessel.

 

10 hours ago, Clancythecat said:

Will the "EL-OCD construction manipulator" also have this new Shipwright system?

Yes. Both the Sandcaster and the construction manipulator are getting the same treatment.

I've been bashing my head on my desk for the past two weeks trying to figure out how to ensure that when landed, the spawned craft is always level (meaning, your navball is reading 0 for roll and pitch). Thus far, I've failed to figure that out. For various reasons, it's hard to do in KSP. If I can't figure it out by the weekend, I'll release what I have into the wild- the spawned craft will have the same orientation as the printer, so you might need to find some creative ways to level your printer before printing your desired craft.

To be hones, this is more of an edge case for those times when you want to print a base and have it overlooking a crater or something, or you print your craft on some slope and (my) OCD compels (me) to make it level.

[SergeantBlueforce]

1 hour ago, Angelo Kerman said:

These aren't insta-build. Just as it takes time to 3D print a part, it takes time to 3D print a whole vessel.

I guess I  phrased my question incorrectly. I'm aware you have fabrication time, I just wondered if you took into consideration the cost in funds of a part as well as mass, and if you perhaps used it to inform some aspect of the fabrication process (such as time).

1 hour ago, Angelo Kerman said:

I'll release what I have into the wild- the spawned craft will have the same orientation as the printer, so you might need to find some creative ways to level your printer before printing your desired craft.

I think you can definitely get away with the old "it's not a bug, it's a feature" excuse here; this seems like an entirely reasonable gameplay restriction, as one would naturally expect a 3D printer to fabricate something with respect to its own orientation. Obviously you should just make sure you communicate this properly to the player.

By the way, is it indeed the case that you're trying to make a fully standalone alternative to EPL? Because that's awesome if that's the case, because no offence to skykooler & taniwha but it's kind of dinosaur in modding terms at this point.

[Nightside]

3 hours ago, Angelo Kerman said:

spawned craft will have the same orientation

Maybe an opportunity to adjust orientation after printing but before physics is enabled?

[KspNoobUsernameTaken]

Maybe after it spawns in, you go into a vessel mover-esque mode (referring to the mod Vessel Mover)? Then you press a confirm button or something.

[Angelo Kerman]

16 hours ago, SergeantBlueforce said:

I guess I  phrased my question incorrectly. I'm aware you have fabrication time, I just wondered if you took into consideration the cost in funds of a part as well as mass, and if you perhaps used it to inform some aspect of the fabrication process (such as time).

I think you can definitely get away with the old "it's not a bug, it's a feature" excuse here; this seems like an entirely reasonable gameplay restriction, as one would naturally expect a 3D printer to fabricate something with respect to its own orientation. Obviously you should just make sure you communicate this properly to the player.

By the way, is it indeed the case that you're trying to make a fully standalone alternative to EPL? Because that's awesome if that's the case, because no offence to skykooler & taniwha but it's kind of dinosaur in modding terms at this point.

I don't account for part cost in the build process, only part mass. If anything, I should account for the dimensions of the part along with its mass as a factor of build time (watch a 3D printer do its thing...).

This upcoming update is definitely an alternative to Extraplanetary Launchpads. I've been a huge proponent of Extraplanetary Launchpads for the better part of a decade and love that mod. I've written stories around astronauts printing and building vessels off-world thanks to EL. For Sandcastle, I am making an alternative that leverages the stock inventory system to speed up the process by using parts in the inventory. But there's more to it than that. Out of the box, Sandcastle just requires Ore for printing, but it has the built-in capability to require a lot more including additional resources, varying levels of gravity and pressure, and even other parts. Imagine needing a Z-100 battery in order to print up a probe core, for instance.

Through Module Manager, crafty players could create a whole part manufacturing chain in order to make parts at the top of that chain and have a Factorio-like play experience if desired. And some of those parts could be barred from being 3D printed, requiring you to ship them from the home world. For my game, for instance, warp engine tech will require Quantum Computers, Quantum Power Converters, and Quantum Warp Guides that cannot be 3D printed (they're alien tech and require highly complex processes to replicate)- at least until @JadeOfMaar makes an "alien tech" printer.

13 hours ago, Nightside said:

Maybe an opportunity to adjust orientation after printing but before physics is enabled?

2 hours ago, KspNoobUsernameTaken said:

Maybe after it spawns in, you go into a vessel mover-esque mode (referring to the mod Vessel Mover)? Then you press a confirm button or something.

This is probably best left to Vessel Mover, but yeah.

Anyway, this weekend I need to do some code cleanup and leave myself some notes so I can pick up where I left off. Then I can finally kick this release out the door. While they won't be in this weekend's release, I already have plans for advanced printer tech that are kerbal-portable and leverage functionality from the Breaking Ground DLC...