Programmable Probes

[KerbalEngineer]

Hello KSP forums I have had this idea for a while about one of the next big updates or possibly a DLC. This is a new feature where you can either put a probe on a rocket and then fly it with the same path to orbit by putting the data from the probe on a new rocket or identical rocket. The other way you could use this is set up a probe on a rocket and give it a flight path or destination and the rocket will attempt to make it to the destination.  There are more possibilities but I want to discuss this with other to refine the topic Thanks.

[Single stage to ocean]

Nice idea in practice but it should cost funds to use a preprogrammed track and the guidance system is heavy. Also, it doesn’t fit into the games idea of doing everything yourself, download mechjeb if you don’t like that.

Edited April 3, 2021 by Single stage to ocean

[Dientus]

There seem to be three camps of belief on this general subject of no assisted, full assisted, and partial assisted automation. At the end of it, the solution will wind up as @Single stage to ocean

Has said, download a mod. There is a 99.248% chance that any type of real automation for ksp, full or otherwise, will ever find it's way into the main game.

 

[Guest]

I think the difference here compared to a mechjeb style auto launch is the player would have to do the initial launch themselves, return the ‘black box’ to Kerbin and then that info stored would be useable for subsequent launches? 

I sort of like the idea but it’d only work properly if you launched the exact same vessel every time as any difference in mass, drag, engine thrust etc would mean the new vessel would technically require a different launch profile and the previous saved profile may not even work.

As suggested above, a mechjeb or Gravity Turn type mod is the obvious answer.

[Bej Kerman]

10 hours ago, Dientus said:

There is a 99.248% chance that any type of real automation for ksp, full or otherwise, will ever find it's way into the main game.

Adding to that, KSP is less of a rocket sim and more of a space sim. It's about manually doing stuff and watching how certain actions affect your orbit. If we add an autopilot to vanilla there's no way to avoid newbies looking up autopilot tutorials and bypassing that incredibly important aspect of the game.

[KerbalEngineer]

On 4/2/2021 at 9:58 PM, Dientus said:

There seem to be three camps of belief on this general subject of no assisted, full assisted, and partial assisted automation. At the end of it, the solution will wind up as @Single stage to ocean

Has said, download a mod. There is a 99.248% chance that any type of real automation for ksp, full or otherwise, will ever find it's way into the main game.

 

I see what you are saying but those mods are different than I am thinking it's not simply just a Program there is actual contents and space that you use and it would be for things that you set a course for and then you can leave them to do other things or even like ditched stages. I know about mods but this would just make the game better for those of us who cant or dont want to get mods. Like dual payloads to a planet where you drop one into the atmosphere the same time the other does a capture burn but you will lose one if you dont have this. The atmosphere probe will burn otherwise the other probe wont capture defeating the mission. Thanks.

On 4/3/2021 at 5:18 AM, FruitGoose said:

I think the difference here compared to a mechjeb style auto launch is the player would have to do the initial launch themselves, return the ‘black box’ to Kerbin and then that info stored would be useable for subsequent launches? 

I sort of like the idea but it’d only work properly if you launched the exact same vessel every time as any difference in mass, drag, engine thrust etc would mean the new vessel would technically require a different launch profile and the previous saved profile may not even work.

As suggested above, a mechjeb or Gravity Turn type mod is the obvious answer.

Actually that is exactly what you would do. It would encourage making one style of rocket and then you have a set payload weight and size like in real life but you still have the Kerbal style and you can imput new paths that you haven't flown but you do have to get an initial data bank to do it. Thanks for helping refine this topic. Also it would open access to players like me to even a little automation. And you could put margins of error in this so it will also encourage the less experienced players to learn how to fly and use the probes. There are many possibilities to use and that is why I love the feedback. Thanks.

[KerbalEngineer]

On 4/3/2021 at 8:57 AM, Bej Kerman said:

Adding to that, KSP is less of a rocket sim and more of a space sim. It's about manually doing stuff and watching how certain actions affect your orbit. If we add an autopilot to vanilla there's no way to avoid newbies looking up autopilot tutorials and bypassing that incredibly important aspect of the game.

Like I explained to fruit goose you could add margine of error to make new players learn how to fly manual as well. Not only that but this wouldn't be an auto piolet because it only works if you have the right data to make it work plus a flight record of the vehicle. And it would open a new way to play that even mods don't capture. This would help expand the game in the end. Thanks for the feedback though.

[KerbalEngineer]

Thank you for all of your replies in total this would update my first statement to be from what it was to make this possibly more of a DLC than a big update but this update will change the game to have a new tab called Guidence and there will also be a section that is know as programs. You will have as physical parts added, New probe attachments. These attachments would come in different sizes and the bigger they are the more of other hardware would be required. The larges probes would be for you full rocket on the pad. For these rockets you would require a medium to large black box or other data storage system, as well as an FTS and an active data probe (to improve the flight path to be more efficient). A passive data probe (to improve the flight path but for the next rockets) would be recommended but the data from the black box would have to be recovered and then you would require an update to the data you already have for the information to help improve each launch. All of this would be used to help encourage a standard rocket design for those who want to use these probes but as well as discourage newer players from using this because of the weight, cost and inefficiency which would all be better and easier for them to build and fly their own specialized rockets. This would also require standardized fairings for proper flight. The medium probes would be for if you wanted to only record your data of the second stage and payloads transportation system and no FTS would be required. The probes would also have flaws for early flights with the rocket including possible inefficient flight paths, higher delta V requirements and possible loss of signal and vehicle the more you use the probe and same system the better the flight path would become. This would also mean that the original flights to the outer planets would be done by hand because it would be so much easier. The reason for FTS (flight termination systems) is so that if your large probe on your beginigng stages that are very large would help create a safe way to destroy the rocket without wasting time and data on a bad flight. You could also make a system of stalights around a place much easier. Next, are black boxes there would be small to large versions of these. You would have choses between more data or higher tolerance for destruction. This would mean that you could have one of these survive reentry and impact at 300m/s but less data or a black box that can only survive 25m/s impact with much more data. The next big part would be verification of newer flight paths. These would be where the manual and automation would mix because you would have to watch the flight path and correct the inefficiency from it if there are large processions. This would also mean that if you just wanted plain KSP you could either deactivate a DLC or you could have it so that these probes are not required for flight at all. I would want the update where these are nor required but useful. Finally you would have the possibility for large scale relay systems that you could launch using the system and there would be possibility for a fully automated system where you would have a separate launch pad and then you would set a number of rockets to launch from there with set destinations using your previous data and attempts you made. And as always thank you for your time and patience with me.

[Bej Kerman]

1 hour ago, KerbalEngineer said:

On 4/3/2021 at 3:57 PM, Bej Kerman said:

Adding to that, KSP is less of a rocket sim and more of a space sim. It's about manually doing stuff and watching how certain actions affect your orbit. If we add an autopilot to vanilla there's no way to avoid newbies looking up autopilot tutorials and bypassing that incredibly important aspect of the game.

Like I explained to fruit goose you could add margine of error to make new players learn how to fly manual as well. Not only that but this wouldn't be an auto piolet because it only works if you have the right data to make it work plus a flight record of the vehicle. And it would open a new way to play that even mods don't capture. This would help expand the game in the end. Thanks for the feedback though.

Margin of error would make using the autopilot a terrible idea unless you want that margin of error to send you hurtling into the atmosphere and, as I said, newbies could just open sandbox to bypass having to rise up the tech tree and record data in the first place. I know I started with sandbox in 0.18 when there weren't a lot of alternatives and have never touched career mode too much since it first released. Thanks for listening, have a happy Easter.

[Dientus]

5 hours ago, KerbalEngineer said:

I see what you are saying but those mods are different than I am thinking it's not simply just a Program there is actual contents and space that you use and it would be for things that you set a course for and then you can leave them to do other things or even like ditched stages. I know about mods but this would just make the game better for those of us who cant or dont want to get mods. Like dual payloads to a planet where you drop one into the atmosphere the same time the other does a capture burn but you will lose one if you dont have this. The atmosphere probe will burn otherwise the other probe wont capture defeating the mission. Thanks.

 

3 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

Margin of error would make using the autopilot a terrible idea unless you want that margin of error to send you hurtling into the atmosphere and, as I said, newbies could just open sandbox to bypass having to rise up the tech tree and record data in the first place. I know I started with sandbox in 0.18 when there weren't a lot of alternatives and have never touched career mode too much since it first released. Thanks for listening, have a happy Easter.

I understand, I am of the 'partial autopilot' myself. Having probes being programmable to a small extent and having and Kerbals both only able to perform certain pre-created maneuvers with varying margins of error.

 

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I understand its for ksp2, but other thread discussions get just as heated. All we can do is see if the ksp devs believe it adds enough to the game to go through adding it.

Edited April 4, 2021 by Dientus
mobile phones suck for posts LoL

[KerbalEngineer]

I dont imply an auto piolet that is different because you would have to have the flight path pre done otherwise you have to fly yourself. This also means that in sandbox you still have to collect data for your missions. Data will be just like building the craft because you have to fly it at least once to have the autopilot kick in and have the right equipment. The margin of error could be small to large whatever seems to fit and burning in the atmosphere would be a situation you would have to plan for so this would discourage players to do it but the benefits of doing it right would be worth it to some of the better players and that is my goal.

[Single stage to ocean]

Technically the game already had this, look at the KAL-1000 which can be used to automate flights by setting it to perform actions, eg, light engines, change fin deploy angle, activate rocket for attitude control, ignite engine again.

[KerbalEngineer]

It's not simple tasks though

[kspnerd122]

I feel like maybe it could be made to preform preplanned manuver nodes, or driving around on a planet without player input, but otherwise, I feel like this would kill the point of the game

[Corona688]

On 4/3/2021 at 8:57 AM, Bej Kerman said:

If we add an autopilot to vanilla there's no way to avoid newbies looking up autopilot tutorials and bypassing that incredibly important aspect of the game.

They do that anyway, so I don't think that's a good argument against it.

[Jack Mcslay]

All I want is the ability to tell probes to report and transmit a given science experiment repeatedly unattended so that we don't have to watch polar satellites doing repeated polar orbits until it gets above the spot you want.

[Bej Kerman]

1 hour ago, Corona688 said:

On 4/3/2021 at 3:57 PM, Bej Kerman said:

If we add an autopilot to vanilla there's no way to avoid newbies looking up autopilot tutorials and bypassing that incredibly important aspect of the game.

They do that anyway, so I don't think that's a good argument against it.

KSP does not have any way to automatically set a rocket on a certain orbit to my knowledge.