KSP2 would be even better with a standalone VAB/SPH craft editor so one can work on craft whenever one wants to

[mcwaffles2003]

Just now, MKI said:

Just to be clear, this means running another version of KSP, building your stuff then transferring the file manually via the file explorer? Or is KSP smart enough to load up the new/updated file(s) if you saved it in the same save, or with the latest update other saves?

You can't load up the same instance twice but you could load up a second identical instance. So just copy and paste the entire game folder to make a clone and load both games. You would have to manually transfer the craft file via explorer, yes. I haven't done this myself but I think the game would update the save file data when you go into the VAB and try to load a craft since it would just re-read the ships folder and present what it sees in there to the player. So if you drop in a new file and reload the VAB the new craft should be in there.

[darthgently]

19 minutes ago, MKI said:

Just to be clear, this means running another version of KSP, building your stuff then transferring the file manually via the file explorer? Or is KSP smart enough to load up the new/updated file(s) if you saved it in the same save, or with the latest update other saves?

The pared-down standalone  would need to have mirror of GameData at least so you had all the same parts and a mechanism would nice to automatically sync the Ships/* folders.  I'm not sure what it would take.  I'm just a player making a suggestion that seems possible from a fairly long programming background.  But I don't know the code or other issues that may be involved

19 minutes ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

You can't load up the same instance twice but you could load up a second identical instance. So just copy and paste the entire game folder to make a clone and load both games. You would have to manually transfer the craft file via explorer, yes. I haven't done this myself but I think the game would update the save file data when you go into the VAB and try to load a craft since it would just re-read the ships folder and present what it sees in there to the player. So if you drop in a new file and reload the VAB the new craft should be in there.

Yes, this was what I've done.  But even with 64GB of ram 2 instances is a bit unwieldy.  I bet a standalone editor on its own would be a fraction of the overhead.  And maybe portable to lighter weight platforms like notepads etc.  Maybe some of the higher end, big screen phones, but I wouldn't want to go there

[MKI]

4 minutes ago, darthgently said:

I bet a standalone editor on its own would be a fraction of the overhead.  And maybe portable to lighter weight platforms like notepads etc.

I don't see many places to optimize the VAB to run better, especially to the point of getting to "notepad level", which is simply impossible. Even if it was in its own single executable, it would probably run with the same performance as the existing game, since when your in the VAB the game is focusing 100% on the VAB. Putting it into its own executable wouldn't  magically change that. 

You can't really remove much to make it run faster/more optimize. Any effort to do that could again be used to optimize the original version VAB anyways.

Something like those "2D editors" I've seen people to create exportable(?) blueprints might make more sense, where you throw out huge portions of features for simplicity. But then we are getting into the realm of a whole new system/application with a different set of requirements rather than packaging up the existing VAB code and making it run separately. 

 

 

[darthgently]

5 minutes ago, MKI said:

I don't see many places to optimize the VAB to run better, especially to the point of getting to "notepad level", which is simply impossible. Even if it was in its own single executable, it would probably run with the same performance as the existing game, since when your in the VAB the game is focusing 100% on the VAB. Putting it into its own executable wouldn't  magically change that. 

You can't really remove much to make it run faster/more optimize. Any effort to do that could again be used to optimize the original version VAB anyways.

Something like those "2D editors" I've seen people to create exportable(?) blueprints might make more sense, where you throw out huge portions of features for simplicity. But then we are getting into the realm of a whole new system/application with a different set of requirements rather than packaging up the existing VAB code and making it run separately. 

 

 

Good points.  But, in truth, the VAB could be a total rewrite in 2 (with a surface similarity in the released vids).  Hard to say.  I'm just throwing out there that the editor is already a nearly completely different program that just gets pulled in, so it probably wouldn't be hard to make a standalone version.  I ran KSP on a notepad for awhile and it was fine for a vanilla game and keeping part counts south of 400 or so.  Maybe I'll just roll my own set up with rsync to keep the GameData and Ships/* dirs sync'd when I hook up my notepad to my home LAN.

[MKI]

3 minutes ago, darthgently said:

I ran KSP on a notepad for awhile and it was fine for a vanilla game and keeping part counts south of 400 or so.  Maybe I'll just roll my own set up with rsync to keep the GameData and Ships/* dirs sync'd when I hook up my notepad to my home LAN.

At first when you said "notepad" I was thinking of the notepad editor.... rather than a lightweight machine. (netbook/ultrabook/laptop)

 

5 minutes ago, darthgently said:

I'm just throwing out there that the editor is already a nearly completely different program that just gets pulled in, so it probably wouldn't be hard to make a standalone version.

Unless the game is the VAB and "pulls in" everything else 

[StarSlay3r]

Hello! We recently created a new KSP 2 Suggestions & Development Discussion section, so we'll be moving all related posts (including this one) over there. 

[Incarnation of Chaos]

12 hours ago, Vanamonde said:

Some comments have been removed from this thread. 1) Please don't post to tell others where they should post. It's off-topic for the thread and creates clutter for others to have to click past. 2) If someone is really bothering you you can set that person on ignore. Please do that rather than accuse others of trolling. 3) Keep it polite, please. 

As yet there is not a separate suggestions sub for KSP2  suggestions, since that whole area is pretty much hopes and suggestions. There will be such a sub before long, as I understand it, so in the meantime please submit all KSP2 content to that sub. I have moved this discussion there. Nobody's in trouble over this. We're just letting you know there's going to be some reorganization sooner or later. 

So when I see a post in a section that clearly doesn't belong there i should just ignore it? I wasn't hostile, rude or anything to the dude.

I've seen people do what I did numerous times and never get moderated for it.

Unbelievable.

[mcwaffles2003]

13 hours ago, darthgently said:

Yes, this was what I've done.  But even with 64GB of ram 2 instances is a bit unwieldy.  I bet a standalone editor on its own would be a fraction of the overhead.  And maybe portable to lighter weight platforms like notepads etc.  Maybe some of the higher end, big screen phones, but I wouldn't want to go there

Dude, with 64GB you should be able to have like 7 heavily modded instances running at once easily... people play this with 8GB

Have the game you want to play on open and have a lightweight part packs only run open

[pandaman]

I 'get' the idea of a standalone/separate VAB, not sure how much use it would be though.  If you want to modofy a ship in flight then I guess you use engineers, maybe an 'in flight craft editor' of some sort (Engeering and Maintenance Editor?) , with some VAB type functionality, could be a handy feature to help with this though, especially on larger vessels.

@darthgently If I recall correctly it has been stated that KSP2 will allow burns on non focused vessels.  This means that the VAB and timewarp etc will be accessible while a ship is firing its engines, as will every other ship and game function.

[Bej Kerman]

16 hours ago, darthgently said:

17 hours ago, Bej Kerman said:

Yes, I said that. I said that below a sentence quoted from MKI and not you.

From here on out, any post I make is not to you, Bej.  So please don't respond

Have you not got anything to back up your statements? I tell you that I wasn't responding to you in regards to long burns, then you push me out of the convo when you realise you were in the wrong. I ask you humbly, am I mistaken?

[darthgently]

2 hours ago, pandaman said:

I 'get' the idea of a standalone/separate VAB, not sure how much use it would be though.  If you want to modofy a ship in flight then I guess you use engineers, maybe an 'in flight craft editor' of some sort (Engeering and Maintenance Editor?) , with some VAB type functionality, could be a handy feature to help with this though, especially on larger vessels.

@darthgently If I recall correctly it has been stated that KSP2 will allow burns on non focused vessels.  This means that the VAB and timewarp etc will be accessible while a ship is firing its engines, as will every other ship and game function.

This idea has nothing to do with engineers and in flight editing.  This is about working on a completely different craft in the VAB using a separately running program while the main KSP progam does other things.  Please, ppl, read.

[Bej Kerman]

34 minutes ago, darthgently said:

This idea has nothing to do with engineers and in flight editing.  This is about working on a completely different craft in the VAB using a separately running program while the main KSP progam does other things.  Please, ppl, read.

There's not much of a reason this should be done.

[pandaman]

4 hours ago, darthgently said:

This idea has nothing to do with engineers and in flight editing.  This is about working on a completely different craft in the VAB using a separately running program while the main KSP progam does other things.  Please, ppl, read.

I did read it.  Perhaps you weren't as clear as you thought.

It just appeared to me that you hadn't realised that you won't need to stay with the ship whilst it is doing the burn, and that you wanted to also be able to edit the same ship in flight.  So I pointed out what looks likely that you will be able to do, and suggested  an 'in flight' option as a potential idea.

As for a 'Standalone' VAB only program, I can see the point, especially if it can run on lower spec machines due to not needing all the planets and things, and lower graphics settings may be less of an issue too.  I do quite like the idea, I'm not sure how much I would actually use it, but I can see the appeal and reasoning behind it.

[darthgently]

28 minutes ago, pandaman said:

I did read it.  Perhaps you weren't as clear as you thought.

It just appeared to me that you hadn't realised that you won't need to stay with the ship whilst it is doing the burn, and that you wanted to also be able to edit the same ship in flight.  So I pointed out what looks likely that you will be able to do, and suggested  an 'in flight' option as a potential idea.

As for a 'Standalone' VAB only program, I can see the point, especially if it can run on lower spec machines due to not needing all the planets and things, and lower graphics settings may be less of an issue too.  I do quite like the idea, I'm not sure how much I would actually use it, but I can see the appeal and reasoning behind it.

You can already edit the same ship designs that are in flight (on rails when in editor currently), that doesn't mean they are the *same* ship that in flight.  Just the same design.  I'm failing to see your point.  I think it would appeal to about the same percentage of people who currently make some of the DLCs worth doing, but that is just a guess.

[pandaman]

1 hour ago, darthgently said:

You can already edit the same ship designs that are in flight (on rails when in editor currently), that doesn't mean they are the *same* ship that in flight.  Just the same design.  I'm failing to see your point.  I think it would appeal to about the same percentage of people who currently make some of the DLCs worth doing, but that is just a guess.

Yes, and as I said before (twice) a 'standalone' VAB program could be quite neat, and I like the idea, especially if it can run on lower spec machines, and be sufficiently useable UI wise on tablets. 

But, I'm just not sure how much I would use it personally, or as others have said, if the the demand is a high as you may think for that matter.