Spacesuits

[kerbiloid]

1. What if the docking port of the mermaid suit is bent, and it can't dock?
They need a big pressurizable hangar to let the human get out, with a ~3 m wide hatch door.

2. What if he must work close to the hul, between thin structures on the station surface, or two must physically interact?

Spoiler

3. Will the soft door passing of a soft human be replaced with docking of a freely maneuvering object at arbitrary relative speed vector?

[AckSed]

Clearly, what is needed is a little cybernetic implant to activate prehensile toes on the exterior of the feet of the suit. We were fully prehensile species once, let's use it.

[kerbiloid]

And a prehensile tail.

Spoiler

 

[magnemoe]

2 hours ago, AckSed said:

Clearly, what is needed is a little cybernetic implant to activate prehensile toes on the exterior of the feet of the suit. We were fully prehensile species once, let's use it.

You can curl your toes use that for control as in grab or release. I have an pretty large gap between the big toe and the others and has picked up stuff like screw drivers and lighters with the feet, 
Way more impressive I saw a lady without arms type touch with her toes. 
It was an book with some gene modified humans with hands instead of feet, I say something like modified ape feet would work just as well and the only downside is that you needed special shoes and perhaps not be able to run as fast. 

1 hour ago, kerbiloid said:

And a prehensile tail.

  Hide contents

 

That is an upgrade package.
Florence's boyfriends mother was disappointed Florence's was not prehensile
http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff3200/fc03147.htm

Edited April 17, 2023 by magnemoe

[kerbiloid]

On the other hand, if combine the Single-Person Spacecraft with Canadarm

Spoiler

, this actually should work.

Spoiler

[tater]

https://www.nasa.gov/image-article/collins-aerospace-tests-nasa-space-station-suit-in-weightlessness/

https://www.collinsaerospace.com/what-we-do/industries/space/space-suits

 

 

[farmerben]

I like an idea from Neal Stephanson's "Seven Eves", the cheap spacesuit is just the arms and a coffin like solid box for the rest of the human body.

[tater]

3 minutes ago, farmerben said:

I like an idea from Neal Stephanson's "Seven Eves", the cheap spacesuit is just the arms and a coffin like solid box for the rest of the human body.

I posted something about that 1 page earlier in this thread (personal spacecraft vs suits). It's in fact an old idea.

 

[kerbiloid]

Invented by insectoid aliens to infiltrate and occupy the Earth.

[tater]

 

Wanted this thread to be floated up a few pages

 

[sevenperforce]

I'm so very excited to see what they've come up with.

[darthgently]

A built-in cold gas small range maneuvering system would be nice.  Just click on a tank for gas, or not if tethers are the order for the outing.  I'm picturing tiny boot, wrist, and belt (near CoM) nozzles and a cpu to modulate flow to each depending on body position and desired attitude and velocity.

Maybe ability to use suit oxygen for thrust in an emergency if no thruster gas tank attached or is empty

Edited March 25 by darthgently

[tater]

 

 

[DDE]

The new SpaceX EVA suits seem to be missing life support. External lights inside the main helmet are also a pretty dubious idea.

[Spaceception]

2 minutes ago, DDE said:

The new SpaceX EVA suits seem to be missing life support. External lights inside the main helmet are also a pretty dubious idea.

It's not. Life support comes from an umbilical with the tether. It's just kind of a bulkier IVA suit that can handle vacuum better.

[tater]

1 minute ago, Spaceception said:

It's not. Life support comes from an umbilical with the tether. It's just kind of a bulkier IVA suit that can handle vacuum better.

Yes, an incremental approach. Assuming the arms and helmet work decently well, they then work on the legs, PLSS, etc.

[DDE]

1 hour ago, Spaceception said:

It's not. Life support comes from an umbilical with the tether. It's just kind of a bulkier IVA suit that can handle vacuum better.

"So it's a Sokol suit for throwing tourists out of the capsule for slow bouts, one by one because otherwise the umbilicals would get twisted"

[tater]

The Polaris EVA is scheduled to be ~1 hour.

[tater]

Polaris Dawn got me thinking about this thread since they have an EVA suit (sans PLSS) of a sort.

I was also thinking about cost. Atmospheric Diving Suits (a sort of worn submarine) apparently cost close to a million bucks each. I don't see much reason for any space suit to cost much more than that, 1 atm is an easier problem than 1000 atm, after all (yes, temperature extremes are worse in space).

Wonder what the cost is for the current SpaceX suits, and if they worked well enough (thinking mobility here, for microgravity EVAs, tool use, etc) to get a PLSS added in future and have legit suits, vs tethered.

[darthgently]

16 minutes ago, tater said:

Polaris Dawn got me thinking about this thread since they have an EVA suit (sans PLSS) of a sort.

I was also thinking about cost. Atmospheric Diving Suits (a sort of worn submarine) apparently cost close to a million bucks each. I don't see much reason for any space suit to cost much more than that, 1 atm is an easier problem than 1000 atm, after all (yes, temperature extremes are worse in space).

Wonder what the cost is for the current SpaceX suits, and if they worked well enough (thinking mobility here, for microgravity EVAs, tool use, etc) to get a PLSS added in future and have legit suits, vs tethered.

I posted elsewhere here in S&S that because pressurized suits limit mobility maybe a rapid modulation of suit pressure to account for bending of joints might help.  And it would likely cost a lot less than a profusion of rigid rotating joints.  Once in lunar regolith the fewer rotating joints the better for sure.

What happened with the suit a woman was developing that use the constriction of the layers of the suit to maintain pressure rather than air?  Need to find that out.  The protos made the models look like they were Incredibles.   While perhaps not the solution for all parts of the suit (joints and abdomen for mobility reasons?), a conformal solution might make sense for gloves and the areas of limbs between joints if not good for joints and abdomen

[Terwin]

1 hour ago, tater said:

Polaris Dawn got me thinking about this thread since they have an EVA suit (sans PLSS) of a sort.

I was also thinking about cost. Atmospheric Diving Suits (a sort of worn submarine) apparently cost close to a million bucks each. I don't see much reason for any space suit to cost much more than that, 1 atm is an easier problem than 1000 atm, after all (yes, temperature extremes are worse in space).

Diving suits do not need to deal with radiation(water does that very well) nor do they need to deal with the potential for super-sonic micrometeorites(water is good at slowing things down)

Diving suits also benefit from additional weight(to counter buoyancy), while space suits are only needed in an environment where the cost per pound is very high.

I do not know if these suits are set up to deal with radiation or micrometeorites, but making protective gear as light as possible yet still functional, tends to get very expensive, as mass offers a lot of protective value.

(look at the cost of ballistic ceramic inserts compared to just using a plate of RHA in the same pocket, or the cost of active armor compared to the equivalent mass of RHA{not counting any support or propulsive structures})

 

[tater]

1 hour ago, darthgently said:

What happened with the suit a woman was developing that use the constriction of the layers of the suit to maintain pressure rather than air?  Need to find that out.  The protos made the models look like they were Incredibles.   While perhaps not the solution for all parts of the suit (joints and abdomen for mobility reasons?), a conformal solution might make sense for gloves and the areas of limbs between joints if not good for joints and abdomen

Mechanical counterpressure suits.

15 minutes ago, Terwin said:

Diving suits do not need to deal with radiation(water does that very well) nor do they need to deal with the potential for super-sonic micrometeorites(water is good at slowing things down)

Space suits don't deal with ionizing radiation at all. Micrometeorites? Not sure current suits do much of that at all, honestly, just check for leaks before EVA and patch?

17 minutes ago, Terwin said:

Diving suits also benefit from additional weight(to counter buoyancy), while space suits are only needed in an environment where the cost per pound is very high.

That's a launch cost issue, they are literally weightless in space—inertia is a different matter, obviously, they're not massless. Regardless, at current cost, a few thousand bucks a kg is not a big deal for a suit that is ~$1M, and costs will certainly continue to drop—they have to anyway, if there is to be a need for cheaper suits (chicken and egg).

19 minutes ago, Terwin said:

I do not know if these suits are set up to deal with radiation or micrometeorites, but making protective gear as light as possible yet still functional, tends to get very expensive, as mass offers a lot of protective value.

(look at the cost of ballistic ceramic inserts compared to just using a plate of RHA in the same pocket, or the cost of active armor compared to the equivalent mass of RHA{not counting any support or propulsive structures})

If protection is an issue, look up the thread a ways to my posts about personal spacecraft for orbital EVA (vs "suits"). Throw Whipple shields on them, etc.

[magnemoe]

2 hours ago, Terwin said:

Diving suits do not need to deal with radiation(water does that very well) nor do they need to deal with the potential for super-sonic micrometeorites(water is good at slowing things down)

Diving suits also benefit from additional weight(to counter buoyancy), while space suits are only needed in an environment where the cost per pound is very high.

I do not know if these suits are set up to deal with radiation or micrometeorites, but making protective gear as light as possible yet still functional, tends to get very expensive, as mass offers a lot of protective value.

(look at the cost of ballistic ceramic inserts compared to just using a plate of RHA in the same pocket, or the cost of active armor compared to the equivalent mass of RHA{not counting any support or propulsive structures})

Assume they are also very tiring to use, worse than space suits. All the seals has to be very water proof.  In space you are dealing with 0.25 bar. 
Rigid space suits has been investigated works a lot like the atmospheric diving suits but is much lighter because of this but they are worse than existing in mobility 

2 hours ago, tater said:

Mechanical counterpressure suits.

Makes me wonder is mechanical counter pressure only at the joints could work, use solid or inelastic materials other places, think of an suit of armor. this let you adjust the length of limbs to fit the user. 
Mechanical counter pressure all over however makes punctures much less of an problem. 

[kerbiloid]

13 hours ago, tater said:

1 atm is an easier problem than 1000 atm

Mariana Diving Suit...

1000 atm = 10 km depth

13 hours ago, darthgently said:

What happened with the suit a woman was developing that use the constriction of the layers of the suit to maintain pressure rather than air?

They call it "push-up bra". Nothing new, just in space.

12 hours ago, Terwin said:

Diving suits do not need to deal with radiation(water does that very well) nor do they need to deal with the potential for super-sonic micrometeorites(water is good at slowing things down)

The protective layers don't need to be a part of the pressurized envelope.
 

Spoiler

Btw notice the colors, making it perfectly visible for the rescue teams, lightweight elements on the top, making shadow, anti-regolith high boots with wide tops,  wide trousers around the thick lead belt, and the wave-like envelope of the quickly inflatable sleeves, useful as emergency impact bags.

And of course the spikey wands, indispensable on the lunar ground, and having a hundred of purposes.

Also, the

Spoiler

baldachins are protective, adjustable, simple, and are in the trend again (even for the tanks).

 

12 hours ago, tater said:

Space suits don't deal with ionizing radiation at all.

They do, because they absorb protons and electrons which the space radiation mostly consists of.

12 hours ago, tater said:

Micrometeorites? Not sure current suits do much of that at all

One of the working and lunar suit features, compared to their escape suits.

***

Thanks to the technical progress and modern social tendentions, 30 years later, when the humanity will finally fly to somewhere there, the space suits will be much simpler, and the current projects will be obsolete and funny.

Just properly prepare the personnel items members.
Also this gives much higher level of augmentation.

Spoiler

 

Edited September 14 by kerbiloid

[tater]

11 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

They do, because they absorb protons and electrons which the space radiation mostly consists of.

So does a sheet of paper.

There is no meaningful rad protection from any space suit for the most concerning radiation, galactic cosmic rays.

The point is that there's nothing special; about any of the current space suits, and no need for them to be absurdly expensive.