KSP1 Computer Building/Buying Megathread

[Alphasus]

37 minutes ago, Camacha said:

Looking at the configuration in this post I do not see any obvious flaws. You seem to have circumvented the common pitfalls. It is a pretty balanced system without any weirdly over- or under-dimensioned components. The PSU is pretty beefy for this system, but we have had that discussion a couple of times now, so I will not bore you any further. A couple of minor points:

- Is noise a concern? As other people mentioned, you might want to pick a tower style cooler. Be sure there is some airflow across the motherboard (and specifically the VRM's surrounding the CPU socket) whatever you decide.
- Regarding noise: a WD Black is relatively loud. Something like a WD Red will be slightly slower, but much quieter. Since you will likely be using it for bulk data, speed is not that relevant. You will save a buck too. The WD Black is not a bad choice, though.
- AS5 is not really the TIM of choice any more. There are more modern options available for the same or less money that will be easier to apply.
- Some people are not too fond of the GTX 970 because of memory shenanigans. It is a pretty fiercely contested subject, so I will leave it at that, but you might want to look into it to see whether you feel it might be relevant for you.
- The Samsung EVO hard drives have a decent track record. They do use TLC, though. An SSD like the Crucial MX200 uses MLC memory cells (and even SLC when partially written to). The MX series also has added protection features in case of power loss. Do not get fooled by the silly performance numbers you see for the Samsung drives, I could write an article about those, but the long story short is that they are both massively inflated and irrelevant. Neither would be a mistake to buy, but personally, I would pick the option with the more reliable technology.
- Your memory is not on the QVL. Generally that is not an issue and a lot of very similar memory sets from the same brand are on there, but I just wanted it to be mentioned. You really have to be a winner of the unlucky lottery to run into any sort of trouble.

 

I mentioned the thermal compound for Arctic MX-4, a NH-U14S. In terms of keyboards,  I could recommend the CM Storm Quickfire Rapid in whatever switch you prefer. Also, on the 970, it has always had that much VRAM, so its benchmarks have always been valid. Finally, for noise, I mentioned the Noctua A15 fans.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Alphasus

[Camacha]

47 minutes ago, Alphasus said:

I mentioned the thermal compound for Arctic MX-4, a NH-U14S. In terms of keyboards,  I could recommend the CM Storm Quickfire Rapid in whatever switch you prefer. Also, on the 970, it has always had that much VRAM, so its benchmarks have always been valid. Finally, for noise, I mentioned the Noctua A15 fans.

It seems Arctic MX-4 is also not the baddest kid on the block any more. I refer KocLobster to a recent review for the current best options, though MX-4 is not a bad paste. There seem to be a few and it depends on local availability which is the best choice. I think I have been careful to acknowledge that others already proposed a tower style cooler, while chiming in and adding that air flow across the motherboard is important. The latter can cause some pain if you are not aware of it.

Regarding the GTX 970, it is not really about valid benchmarks, but reports that it is not using all of its memory. As said before, I am not keen to get into that discussion, KocLobster just needs to evaluate whether those concerns are relevant to him.

While Noctua is well known for making silent fans, the fans you mention are PWM fans. Having PWM on a fan is a known risk when it comes to noise, though there are PWM fans that are very quiet too. If noise truly is a concern, one might take a look at Silent PC Review's famous fan list. However, if noise is that much of a concern, you really need to address the whole system and not just the added fans.

Finally, keyboards come in many, many styles and flavours. Most options and choices that are to be made are similar to those of rubber dome keyboards; layout, TKL or full size, media buttons, backlight, materials etcetera. A lot is possible and different people will prefer different things 

It might be worth mentioning that there are many great and fairly cheap keyboard from unknown brands are to be had too. I have heard pretty much exclusively good stories about those, as most tend to use real Cherry MX switches anyway.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Camacha

[KocLobster]

First off, thank you guys for spending such substantial amounts of time helping just me, its a very kind gesture and I appreciate it. I certainly could manage, but I most definitely would not be better off without your help.

@Camacha

I'm okay with a little over-beefed PSU, it's only an extra $10 to go up each 100W. In the future I may want things that require a bit more power, and I don't want to need a new PSU at that point.

I just am now realizing that noise is more of a concern than I previously stated/thought. I'd like a fairly quiet machine, but not to the point of $100's worth of fans and such.

You sold me, I will switch out WD Black with Red, speed is indeed not a huge concern. That's why I have a separate SSD anyways, right?

I'm getting the MX4 that Alphasus suggested.

I have read a tiny bit on the GTX 970 and what you're referring too, and while I don't suspect I will be using more than 3.5GB of VRAM anytime soon, I don't want to potentially deal with it in the future. Things are already at $1700 though, and we are near the maximum I can spend. This is the GTX 980 I am looking at: EVGA GeForce GTX 980 04G-P4-2983-KR 4GB SC GAMING w/ACX 2.0, 26% Cooler and 36% Quieter Cooling Graphics Card however, there is also this: MSI GeForce GTX 980 GAMING 4G but it sounds like the MSI doesn't have as glorious cooling; the EVGA card has more reviews too. Definitely let me know if you agree on the EVGA or MSI or another card entirely? I don't know for sure if I'll be buying a more expensive card than the 970...probably though, which is why I'm already getting suggestions.

On the subject of noise again, I want a quiet machine. Within reason. And I'm pretty sure the Noctura fans Alphasus has suggested, both the 140mm case fans and the heatsink/fan will do just fine. I only care that the system isn't overly loud; I share a large room with a roommate. Oh, I also don't know what PMW fans are

 

Thought I might mention to not feel bad or think you're making me spend more money than I want. Without going into boring details, now is the time for me to go all out and spend on a nice system. I don't want to have to buy a better GFX card in 3 months because I didn't go hard enough in the shopping cart.

 

As for the SSD, I don't know what TLC stands for (I assume it's not tender loving care). I also don't know what MLC or SLC terms mean. I could look it up what they mean, but it wouldn't provide a lot of context either. I know absolutely jack about SSD
s...when I was still building computers, SSDs didn't really exist yet.

I also don't know what QVL is in regards to the RAM I've chosen. You say it's not really important though, so I'm going to ignore it.

I'm going to go with the cheap keyboard, I don't think I want a mechanical.

I also think I'm going to go with a slightly cheaper and maybe not Razer brand headphones.

Edited March 17, 2016 by KocLobster

[Elthy]

If you want to be sure to never ever have problems with VRAM buy a R9 390. Its also a better deal than the 980...

[Spaceception]

Would this be a decent computer? I like it, and I would have plenty of memory for US2 )Minimum, it only needs 1 gb ram on low stuff, and I'm fine with that)

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/lenovo-g50-15-6-laptop-amd-a8-series-6gb-memory-1tb-hard-drive-black/4907904.p?id=bb4907904&skuId=4907904

Edited March 17, 2016 by Spaceception

[Elthy]

No idea whats US2, but that thing is barely able to boot. It would be better to safe more money to buy something decent that to waste 300$ on this and then days of your lifetime just waiting for it to do stuff...

[Alphasus]

13 hours ago, KocLobster said:

First off, thank you guys for spending such substantial amounts of time helping just me, its a very kind gesture and I appreciate it. I certainly could manage, but I most definitely would not be better off without your help.

@Camacha

I'm okay with a little over-beefed PSU, it's only an extra $10 to go up each 100W. In the future I may want things that require a bit more power, and I don't want to need a new PSU at that point.

I just am now realizing that noise is more of a concern than I previously stated/thought. I'd like a fairly quiet machine, but not to the point of $100's worth of fans and such.

You sold me, I will switch out WD Black with Red, speed is indeed not a huge concern. That's why I have a separate SSD anyways, right?

I'm getting the MX4 that Alphasus suggested.

I have read a tiny bit on the GTX 970 and what you're referring too, and while I don't suspect I will be using more than 3.5GB of VRAM anytime soon, I don't want to potentially deal with it in the future. Things are already at $1700 though, and we are near the maximum I can spend. This is the GTX 980 I am looking at: EVGA GeForce GTX 980 04G-P4-2983-KR 4GB SC GAMING w/ACX 2.0, 26% Cooler and 36% Quieter Cooling Graphics Card however, there is also this: MSI GeForce GTX 980 GAMING 4G but it sounds like the MSI doesn't have as glorious cooling; the EVGA card has more reviews too. Definitely let me know if you agree on the EVGA or MSI or another card entirely? I don't know for sure if I'll be buying a more expensive card than the 970...probably though, which is why I'm already getting suggestions.

On the subject of noise again, I want a quiet machine. Within reason. And I'm pretty sure the Noctura fans Alphasus has suggested, both the 140mm case fans and the heatsink/fan will do just fine. I only care that the system isn't overly loud; I share a large room with a roommate. Oh, I also don't know what PMW fans are

 

Thought I might mention to not feel bad or think you're making me spend more money than I want. Without going into boring details, now is the time for me to go all out and spend on a nice system. I don't want to have to buy a better GFX card in 3 months because I didn't go hard enough in the shopping cart.

 

As for the SSD, I don't know what TLC stands for (I assume it's not tender loving care). I also don't know what MLC or SLC terms mean. I could look it up what they mean, but it wouldn't provide a lot of context either. I know absolutely jack about SSD
s...when I was still building computers, SSDs didn't really exist yet.

The GTX 980 and r9 390 are both good choices. But, you are running 1080p. A 970 is overkill for that, a 980 even more so. I mentioned a 970 because it is bulletproof for 1080p. The 980 is 25% faster, and it doesn't justify the $150 premium.The GPU will start having VRAM issues before it runs out of gpu power. If you go r9 390 or 390x, internal case temps would go up. Those 2 GPUs would like water cooling loops, and I don't know of your experience with that. What games do you want to play?

Edited March 17, 2016 by Alphasus

[Alphasus]

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-6600K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($254.99 @ Newegg) 
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U14S 55.0 CFM CPU Cooler  ($74.99 @ Newegg) 
Thermal Compound: ARCTIC MX4 4g Thermal Paste  ($7.99 @ Newegg) 
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z170-HD3 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($97.98 @ Newegg) 
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  ($79.99 @ Newegg) 
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($88.00 @ Newegg) 
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive 
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 970 4GB STRIX Video Card  ($332.98 @ Newegg) 
Case: Fractal Design Define R5 w/Window (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($129.98 @ Newegg) 
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA GS 550W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($90.98 @ Newegg) 
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro OEM (64-bit) 
Case Fan: Noctua NF-A15 PWM 140mm  Fan  ($22.98 @ Newegg) 
Case Fan: Noctua NF-A15 PWM 140mm  Fan  ($22.98 @ Newegg) 
Case Fan: Noctua NF-A15 PWM 140mm  Fan  ($22.98 @ Newegg) 
Case Fan: Noctua NF-A15 PWM 140mm  Fan  ($22.98 @ Newegg) 
Monitor: Dell S2715H 60Hz 27.0" Monitor  ($269.99 @ Newegg) 
Total: $1509.79
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-03-17 13:53 EDT-0400

 

All from Newegg, with a price tag! That should cover it.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Alphasus

[KocLobster]

45 minutes ago, Alphasus said:

The GTX 980 and r9 390 are both good choices. But, you are running 1080p. A 970 is overkill for that, a 980 even more so. I mentioned a 970 because it is bulletproof for 1080p. The 980 is 25% faster, and it doesn't justify the $150 premium.The GPU will start having VRAM issues before it runs out of gpu power. If you go r9 390 or 390x, internal case temps would go up. Those 2 GPUs would like water cooling loops, and I don't know of your experience with that. What games do you want to play?

I definitely agree, I feel the 980 is way overkill, considering the 970 is a bit overkill already. But the memory issues seemed fairly significant and I didn't want to have to experience them. I have absolutely no experience with any type of water cooling. I don't want my temps to go up, but I also don't want to have to spend even more on cooling to be honest. Right now and recently I've been playing KSP of course, Minecraft (I'd love to run this on absolute max settings with advanced shaders/texture packs), the Don't Starve series, and The Long Dark...and that's about it for right now. This makes Minecraft the most resource intensive game I currently play, by a decent margin., although The Long Dark comes somewhat close.

I realize that all the games listed, even on the absolute max highest video settings, aren't very resource intensive. But surely I may play games in the future that will be more so..

[Alphasus]

16 minutes ago, KocLobster said:

I definitely agree, I feel the 980 is way overkill, considering the 970 is a bit overkill already. But the memory issues seemed fairly significant and I didn't want to have to experience them. I have absolutely no experience with any type of water cooling. I don't want my temps to go up, but I also don't want to have to spend even more on cooling to be honest. Right now and recently I've been playing KSP of course, Minecraft (I'd love to run this on absolute max settings with advanced shaders/texture packs), the Don't Starve series, and The Long Dark...and that's about it for right now. This makes Minecraft the most resource intensive game I currently play, by a decent margin., although The Long Dark comes somewhat close.

I realize that all the games listed, even on the absolute max highest video settings, aren't very resource intensive. But surely I may play games in the future that will be more so..

That 970 will be fine then, unless you want to play shadow of mordor. That cooling should be sufficient.

[Elthy]

The R9 390 doesnt require watercooling. Its true, they use a bit more power than the GTX 970, but they also come with decent cooling solutions on their own. Being overheated wasters of power sticks still in the minds of some people due to the (awfull) R9 290X refrence design.

Anyway, with those games any of the mentioned GPUs is extreme overkill. You could buy a cheaper card and only upgrade when you realy need it (there will be new GPUs out in a few months). How about a GTX 750ti/R7 360?

Edited March 17, 2016 by Elthy

[Alphasus]

11 minutes ago, Elthy said:

The R9 390 doesnt require watercooling. Its true, they use a bit more power than the GTX 970, but they also come with decent cooling solutions on their own. Being overheated wasters of power sticks still in the minds of some people due to the (awfull) R9 290X refrence design.

Anyway, with those games any of the mentioned GPUs is extreme overkill. You could buy a cheaper card and only upgrade when you realy need it (there will be new GPUs out in a few months). How about a GTX 750ti/R7 360?

He should over clock the 970 and it can easily outperform the 390x. It also will run nice and cool.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Alphasus

[KocLobster]

1 hour ago, Alphasus said:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-6600K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($254.99 @ Newegg) 
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U14S 55.0 CFM CPU Cooler  ($74.99 @ Newegg) 
Thermal Compound: ARCTIC MX4 4g Thermal Paste  ($7.99 @ Newegg) 
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z170-HD3 ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($97.98 @ Newegg) 
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  ($79.99 @ Newegg) 
Storage: Samsung 850 EVO-Series 250GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($88.00 @ Newegg) 
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive 
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 970 4GB STRIX Video Card  ($332.98 @ Newegg) 
Case: Fractal Design Define R5 w/Window (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($129.98 @ Newegg) 
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA GS 550W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($90.98 @ Newegg) 
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro OEM (64-bit) 
Case Fan: Noctua NF-A15 PWM 140mm  Fan  ($22.98 @ Newegg) 
Case Fan: Noctua NF-A15 PWM 140mm  Fan  ($22.98 @ Newegg) 
Case Fan: Noctua NF-A15 PWM 140mm  Fan  ($22.98 @ Newegg) 
Case Fan: Noctua NF-A15 PWM 140mm  Fan  ($22.98 @ Newegg) 
Monitor: Dell S2715H 60Hz 27.0" Monitor  ($269.99 @ Newegg) 
Total: $1509.79
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2016-03-17 13:53 EDT-0400

 

All from Newegg, with a price tag! That should cover it.

I'm pretty much with ya on everything. However, why the change in RAM, and change in motherboard from my last post? Are there any advantages over what I picked out (G.SKILL DDR4 2133 RAM & Gigabyte MB)? (other than the obvious increase in speed of the RAM). Are you sure that RAM works with the chipset/MB? It doesn't specifically say it's Z170 compatible.

Also, I'm thinking I should get at least a 2TB hard drive (not 1), and was thinking of WD Red instead of Black, as per @Camacha's suggestion.

I actually have a copy of Windows 10 ready to go, won't need to buy a copy.

I'm really happy with the monitor I picked out (ASUS 27" Monitor) to be honest. It has a lot more reviews than the Dell, it has both DVI and HDMI (and VGA actually) ports, and it's $70 cheaper. Honestly, I think the Asus is a better buy. Is there any reason you chose the Dell instead of what I picked out that I don't know about? Don't I need a DVI port on my monitor anyways? I wasn't sure if HDMI was an option...I guess it probably would be.

To confirm, I don't need any additional cooling for anything in this system other than the 4 case fans & heatsink/fan from Noctua that we already picked out together, right?

@Elthy

The reason why I wanted the 970 or better is because even though it's overkill for the games I currently play, that can and will change when I move on to other games in the future. I know I will at some point be playing games that do in fact require beefy cards like the 970. It will be a waste of money to buy a cheaper card now, and be forced to then buy a 970 or better down the line. I won't be able to return the cheaper card; what will I do with it? Sell it on craigslist or eBay? I'd rather not go through the hassle. Now is absolutely the time for me to splurge and spend everything I've got allotted for this system. Buying in increments would just be counter-productive. Besides, the 970 is only ~$350. I most definitely do not want to get anything less than a 970 (I've also decided to stick with Nvidia btw).

Thank you both for your time and help  You guys, this forum, and this community are just the absolute best. I'm so happy I discovered it.

Edited March 17, 2016 by KocLobster

[KocLobster]

This was the new HD I was looking at, as per @Camacha's suggestion of Red over Black. After viewing this page describing the different WD colors, I have to agree. Red will be a bit quieter, which is always great! Specifically, this is the drive I was considering: WD Red Pro 2TB NAS Hard Disk Drive - 7200 RPM Class SATA 6Gb/s 64MB Cache 3.5 Inch - WD2001FFSX. It's $10 cheaper (but of course is 2TB, not 3TB). I don't fully understand what NAS is, but I do understand that it will be irrelevant to my needs.I only need one drive (not counting the SSD).

I almost forgot, also per @Camacha's suggestion, I was looking at this Crucial MX200 drive instead of the Samsung SSD we picked out:
250GB: Crucial MX200 2.5" 250GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) CT250MX200SSD1
500GB: Crucial MX200 2.5" 500GB SATA 6Gbps (SATA III) Micron 16nm MLC NAND Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) CT500MX200SSD1

As I've said before, I haven't been building computers since basically before SSD's were out and popular. As such, I have very little knowledge of them and how they work specifically and how best to use them. This also means I have no idea how big of an SSD I need. Honestly, I really only understand that SSD's basically work far far faster than traditional HDs, and usually you keep your most used applications on the SSD for quick retrieval, or something to that effect?

What would I be putting on my SSD? My games, like KSP and Minecraft? If I knew this, I would have a much better idea how large of an SSD I should buy.

[Alphasus]

37 minutes ago, KocLobster said:

I'm pretty much with ya on everything. However, why the change in RAM, and change in motherboard from my last post? Are there any advantages over what I picked out (G.SKILL DDR4 2133 RAM & Gigabyte MB)? (other than the obvious increase in speed of the RAM). Are you sure that RAM works with the chipset/MB? It doesn't specifically say it's Z170 compatible.

Also, I'm thinking I should get at least a 2TB hard drive (not 1), and was thinking of WD Red instead of Black, as per @Camacha's suggestion.

I actually have a copy of Windows 10 ready to go, won't need to buy a copy.

I'm really happy with the monitor I picked out (ASUS 27" Monitor) to be honest. It has a lot more reviews than the Dell, it has both DVI and HDMI (and VGA actually) ports, and it's $70 cheaper. Honestly, I think the Asus is a better buy. Is there any reason you chose the Dell instead of what I picked out that I don't know about? Don't I need a DVI port on my monitor anyways? I wasn't sure if HDMI was an option...I guess it probably would be.

To confirm, I don't need any additional cooling for anything in this system other than the 4 case fans & heatsink/fan from Noctua that we already picked out together, right?

Thank you both for your time and help  You guys, this forum, and this community are just the absolute best. I'm so happy I discovered it.

DDR4 always works with z170. Make the motherboard change you want, and then it will be just fine. The hard drive change will increase the price by $70 though. On the monitor, I have experience with that monitor but it is interchangeable. So yeah go with either. The Dell monitor is IPS, which looks better than the TN monitor that the ASUS monitor. That cooling should be just fine. The case isn't small, and 4 of those fans should keep temps low.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Alphasus

[Alphasus]

14 minutes ago, KocLobster said:

This was the new HD I was looking at, as per @Camacha's suggestion of Red over Black. After viewing this page describing the different WD colors, I have to agree. Red will be a bit quieter, which is always great! Specifically, this is the drive I was considering: WD Red Pro 2TB NAS Hard Disk Drive - 7200 RPM Class SATA 6Gb/s 64MB Cache 3.5 Inch - WD2001FFSX. It's $10 cheaper (but of course is 2TB, not 3TB). I don't fully understand what NAS is, but I do understand that it will be irrelevant to my needs.I only need one drive (not counting the SSD).

I almost forgot, also per @Camacha's suggestion, I was looking at this Crucial MX200 drive instead of the Samsung SSD we picked out:
250GB: Crucial MX200 2.5" 250GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) CT250MX200SSD1
500GB: Crucial MX200 2.5" 500GB SATA 6Gbps (SATA III) Micron 16nm MLC NAND Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) CT500MX200SSD1

As I've said before, I haven't been building computers since basically before SSD's were out and popular. As such, I have very little knowledge of them and how they work specifically and how best to use them. This also means I have no idea how big of an SSD I need. Honestly, I really only understand that SSD's basically work far far faster than traditional HDs, and usually you keep your most used applications on the SSD for quick retrieval, or something to that effect?

What would I be putting on my SSD? My games, like KSP and Minecraft? If I knew this, I would have a much better idea how large of an SSD I should buy.

What motherboard did you go with? Because if you went with any board that has a PCI-Ex4 slot, you could get speeds 4 times as fast as those SSDs. Also, those numbers aren't inflated as far as I know. Multiple disk test softwares have confirmed that for me. The Samsung drive is also faster in real file transfer off of a USB 3 drive. Yes, most used files should go on SSDs. Mine has KSP and my main applications like OpenOffice on it. So does the OS. Windows 10 is fast enough on boot to take advantage of a PCI-E SSD like a Samsung 950 Pro, which is REALLY fast. Minecraft and KSP will also boot significantly faster off of any ssd, but especially a PCI-E drive(PCI-e is a size, NVMe is the actual interface, I know).

Edited March 17, 2016 by Alphasus

[KocLobster]

14 minutes ago, Alphasus said:

DDR4 always works with z170. Make the motherboard change you want, and then it will be just fine. The hard drive change will increase the price by $70 though. On the monitor, I have experience with that monitor but it is interchangeable. So yeah go with either. The Dell monitor is IPS, which looks better than the TN monitor that the ASUS monitor. That cooling should be just fine. The case isn't small, and 4 of those fans should keep temps low.

Is there a significant difference between the RAM I've chosen, and the RAM that's faster that you just suggested (DDR4-3000)? Why not just overclock the 2133 ram I chose to that speed? I'm purely curious, I don't really have any experience with overclocking.

 

5 minutes ago, Alphasus said:

What motherboard did you go with? Because if you went with any board that has a PCI-Ex4 slot, you could get speeds 4 times as fast as those SSDs. Also, those numbers aren't inflated as far as I know. Multiple disk test softwares have confirmed that for me. The Samsung drive is also faster in real file transfer off of a USB 3 drive.

I was going to stick with the GIGABYTE G1 Gaming GA-Z170MX motherboard. It does indeed look like it has a PCI-Ex4 slot. I'm not quite sure what you mean by speeds 4 times as fast as the SSD I have picked (Crucial MX200 2.5" 250GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) CT250MX200SSD1)...how does that work/how would I do that? Did you accidentally type that but meant the RAM?

Edited March 17, 2016 by KocLobster

[Alphasus]

12 minutes ago, KocLobster said:

Is there a significant difference between the RAM I've chosen, and the RAM that's faster that you just suggested (DDR4-3000)? Why not just overclock the 2133 ram I chose to that speed? I'm purely curious, I don't really have any experience with overclocking.

 

I was going to stick with the GIGABYTE G1 Gaming GA-Z170MX motherboard. It does indeed look like it has a PCI-Ex4 slot. I'm not quite sure what you mean by speeds 4 times as fast as the SSD I have picked (Crucial MX200 2.5" 250GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) CT250MX200SSD1)...how does that work/how would I do that? Did you accidentally type that but meant the RAM?

SSDs have 2 interfaces and 2 form factors. The interfaces are SATA and NVMe. The form factors are M.2, and 2.5".The only combination of these two that CANNOT exist is 2.5" NVMe. Anything over the NVMe interface has far more bandwidth that anything over SATA. Thus, the SSDs use that speed with certain high speed designs, and run faster than they can over the the SATA 6 interface( capped at 6 gigabit sped second, or 750 megabytes per second). Realistically, the faster SATA SSDs can do 500 megabytes per second. PCIE drives can do 2 gigabytes per second, right now. That doesn't even max out the interface.Samsung 950 Pro

The actual PCI-E interface maxes out for SSDs at 4 gigabytes per second, so it is noticeably faster.

 

Edited March 17, 2016 by Alphasus

[Alphasus]

15 minutes ago, KocLobster said:

Is there a significant difference between the RAM I've chosen, and the RAM that's faster that you just suggested (DDR4-3000)? Why not just overclock the 2133 ram I chose to that speed? I'm purely curious, I don't really have any experience with overclocking.

I think it was a $5 price difference between the two, so if you want to overclock it you can, but that money wouldn't go to a different part.

[Alphasus]

@KocLobster

Is this all of it? That has the WD Red and 950 Pro. The SSD space should only be used for important stuff though.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-6600K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($254.99 @ Newegg) 
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U14S 55.0 CFM CPU Cooler  ($74.99 @ Newegg) 
Thermal Compound: ARCTIC MX4 4g Thermal Paste  ($7.99 @ Newegg) 
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z170MX-Gaming 5 Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($155.66 @ Newegg) 
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  ($79.99 @ Newegg) 
Storage: Samsung 950 PRO 256GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive  ($181.00 @ Newegg) 
Storage: Western Digital Red Pro 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($134.99 @ Newegg) 
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 970 4GB STRIX Video Card  ($332.98 @ Newegg) 
Case: Fractal Design Define R5 w/Window (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($129.98 @ Newegg) 
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA GS 550W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($90.98 @ Newegg) 
Case Fan: Noctua NF-A15 PWM 140mm  Fan  ($22.98 @ Newegg) 
Case Fan: Noctua NF-A15 PWM 140mm  Fan  ($22.98 @ Newegg) 
Case Fan: Noctua NF-A15 PWM 140mm  Fan  ($22.98 @ Newegg) 
Case Fan: Noctua NF-A15 PWM 140mm  Fan  ($22.98 @ Newegg) 
Monitor: Asus VC279H 60Hz 27.0" Monitor  ($170.98 @ Newegg) 
Total: $1706.45
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

That should be your price range...

Edited March 17, 2016 by Alphasus

[Camacha]

17 hours ago, KocLobster said:

I have read a tiny bit on the GTX 970 and what you're referring too, and while I don't suspect I will be using more than 3.5GB of VRAM anytime soon, I don't want to potentially deal with it in the future. Things are already at $1700 though, and we are near the maximum I can spend. This is the GTX 980 I am looking at: EVGA GeForce GTX 980 04G-P4-2983-KR 4GB SC GAMING w/ACX 2.0, 26% Cooler and 36% Quieter Cooling Graphics Card however, there is also this: MSI GeForce GTX 980 GAMING 4G but it sounds like the MSI doesn't have as glorious cooling; the EVGA card has more reviews too. Definitely let me know if you agree on the EVGA or MSI or another card entirely? I don't know for sure if I'll be buying a more expensive card than the 970...probably though, which is why I'm already getting suggestions.

 

As has been mentioned before, AMD has good alternatives.

Also, when it comes to the GPU, pay special attention to the cooler. Some manufacturers will provide models with great cooling solutions for a small premium, other cards will have the bare minimum necessary to function and will produce a lot of noise.

 

Quote

On the subject of noise again, I want a quiet machine. Within reason. And I'm pretty sure the Noctura fans Alphasus has suggested, both the 140mm case fans and the heatsink/fan will do just fine. I only care that the system isn't overly loud; I share a large room with a roommate. Oh, I also don't know what PMW fans are

Noctua's are known for their great properties, but they are also rather expensive. There are cheaper options to be had that perform well too. Regarding PWM: it stands for Pulse Width Modulation. That is a fancy way of saying that the fan controls its speed through chopping the electrical signal into tiny bits. In short, it turns on and off very quickly continuously while always providing 12 volt when turned on. This is great for fans that need to vary in speed, like the CPU cooling fan. When the temperature increases, you can speed up your fan almost seamlessly. The downside is that all that switching can cause both electrical noise, motor noise and added air noise, since you do not have a smooth input. A less smooth input sometimes equals a less smooth output. This can be mitigated to the point where it does not impact noise at all by adding a low pass filter, but few manufacturers will go through that trouble.

The alternative is using a fan controller, resistor or similar solution. Rather than chopping your electrical signal into tiny bits, you simply lower the voltage that is continuously provided. If this is done properly, you will have a silky smooth input and output signal.

Added complication is that PWM has one more pin than normal fans. The motherboard you picked does seem to have 4-pin fan headers, though, and usually that means it is PWM enabled. You might want to look into that before pulling the trigger on the fans. If I refer to the manual, it tells me that "The speed control function requires the use of a fan with fan speed control design". If I am to interpret the typically awkward way of expressing things in manuals, that should mean they are PWM enabled.

 

Quote

As for the SSD, I don't know what TLC stands for (I assume it's not tender loving care). I also don't know what MLC or SLC terms mean. I could look it up what they mean, but it wouldn't provide a lot of context either. I know absolutely jack about SSDs...when I was still building computers, SSDs didn't really exist yet.

Different SSD drives use memory cells with different technologies to store your data. Hardware wise, they are identical. The basic cell is always (pretty much) the same; it is a small electrical component that holds a a charge. The difference between SLC (Single Level Cell), MLC (Multi Level Cell) and TLC (Triple Level Cell) is what that charge signifies. In SLC, you have two states: charged and discharged. This translates to a 1 and a 0 at the bit level. These drives are fast as can be, because the difference between the two states is large and easily read. It also means that as the electrical component that holds the charge ages, it will take a long time before the difference between 1 and 0 become too small to discern. The down side to having one bit per cell is that you need a lot of cells for a certain amount of information. This makes SLC memory relatively expensive.

To combat that, people came up with MLC. Instead of just storing two charge levels in a cell, you now store four different levels, or states. By doing this, you can now store two bits of information in a cell. No charge means 0-0, a third charge means 1-0, two thirds charge means 0-1 and a full charge means 1-1. Suddenly, you double the amount you can store in in the same cells. Unfortunately, the smaller differences between the states also mean that performance suffers - simply put, you need to look harder to figure out what the charge is - and cells wear out much quicker.

Enter TLC. Instead of having four states, you now suddenly have eight states. This means you can store three bits for every hardware cell, but unfortunately performance and reliability suffer yet again. This is not a theoretical issue; the Samsung 840 EVO has been shown to slow to a crawl when reading older data. Its cells slowly lose charge, causing more uncertainty in cells that were charged longer ago. The result is that the SSD needs to use more time and clever error correcting algorithms to figure out what the cell used to store. Samsung's solution is to copy and rewrite older data automatically, but unfortunately this means even more wear on the SSD.

For consumer grade SSDs, you generally have MLC and TLC drives. MLC is faster and more reliable, TLC is cheap. The beauty of the MX200 250 GB drive is that it dynamically adjusts how it uses its cells. If the drive is not fully filled, it stores one bit per cell, effectively making it an SLC drive. Those are normally just reserved for enterprise grade machines and have eye-watering prices. When the drive fills up past a certain point, it stores two bits per cell, making it a MLC drive. The performance is still good, and reliability is optimal for the price you pay.

The MX series also has another trick that the Samsungs do not have: when you cut power to a SSD, chances are you are cutting short whatever you were writing to the drive. In some cases, this means corrupting essential data on your drive, potentially making the entire drive unreadable. The MX series stores a little bit of energy on board the SSD, so that when the SSD loses power, it can quickly finish the last thing you were writing to it and finish operations. It might still mean your file gets corrupted, but at least it makes the chance of your file system becoming corrupted a lot smaller.

Regarding the NVMe/M.2/PCI-e story: there are new technologies, standards and interfaces that in some cases allow for much faster speeds than current gen (SATA600) SSDs. The benchmark numbers are crazy. However, this is still very fresh technology. It is relatively expensive, and real world tests show little to no improvements. In some cases things like boot time even suffered quite a bit. If you want to be on the bleeding edge, this technology is for you, but as it stands, I would probably hold out one or two years. By that time the technology will blow any SATA drive out of the water in real world applications and you will pay only a fraction of what you pay now. Your motherboard seems to be equipped either way, though, so it is up to you.

Tl;dr: the MX200 is the more affordable and robust option in a number of ways.

 

Quote

I also don't know what QVL is in regards to the RAM I've chosen. You say it's not really important though, so I'm going to ignore it.

The QVL is the Qualified Vendor List, which is a posh name for a list with tested motherboard and memory combinations. In essence, the motherboard and memory models are guaranteed to work without trouble (defects aside). When something is not on the list it does not mean it will not work, it simply means it is not tested. Generally, a lot of memory will not be on the list, but in some applications being sure is more important than being flexible.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Camacha

[Alphasus]

17 minutes ago, Camacha said:

Regarding the NVMe/M.2/PCI-e story: there are new technologies, standards and interfaces that in some cases allow for much faster speeds than current gen (SATA600) SSDs. The benchmark numbers are crazy. However, this is still very fresh technology. It is relatively expensive, and real world tests show little to no improvements. In some cases things like boot time even suffered quite a bit. If you want to be on the bleeding edge, this technology is for you, but as it stands, I would probably hold out one or two years. By that time the technology will blow any SATA drive out of the water in real world applications and you will pay only a fraction of what you pay now. Your motherboard seems to be equipped either way, though, so it is up to you.

I don't believe the loading times claim. As I type this, I am working off of a Samsung 850 EVO 120 GB drive with a caviar blue. My laptop has a 950 pro, running the same OS. it has half the boot time, and opens KSP(veritably) 4 times as fast. It is most definitely far faster and noticeably quicker. My KSP loading time on the desktop is 1 minute. KSP is somewhere between 15 and 20 seconds on the laptop.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Alphasus
Changed text for respect reasons.

[KocLobster]

48 minutes ago, Alphasus said:

@KocLobster

Is this all of it? That has the WD Red and 950 Pro. The SSD space should only be used for important stuff though.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-6600K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($254.99 @ Newegg) 
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U14S 55.0 CFM CPU Cooler  ($74.99 @ Newegg) 
Thermal Compound: ARCTIC MX4 4g Thermal Paste  ($7.99 @ Newegg) 
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z170MX-Gaming 5 Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard  ($155.66 @ Newegg) 
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR4-3000 Memory  ($79.99 @ Newegg) 
Storage: Samsung 950 PRO 256GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive  ($181.00 @ Newegg) 
Storage: Western Digital Red Pro 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($134.99 @ Newegg) 
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 970 4GB STRIX Video Card  ($332.98 @ Newegg) 
Case: Fractal Design Define R5 w/Window (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case  ($129.98 @ Newegg) 
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA GS 550W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($90.98 @ Newegg) 
Case Fan: Noctua NF-A15 PWM 140mm  Fan  ($22.98 @ Newegg) 
Case Fan: Noctua NF-A15 PWM 140mm  Fan  ($22.98 @ Newegg) 
Case Fan: Noctua NF-A15 PWM 140mm  Fan  ($22.98 @ Newegg) 
Case Fan: Noctua NF-A15 PWM 140mm  Fan  ($22.98 @ Newegg) 
Monitor: Asus VC279H 60Hz 27.0" Monitor  ($170.98 @ Newegg) 
Total: $1706.45
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available

That should be your price range...

Yes, everything looks great man. You picked a slightly different ASUS monitor than me, any particular reason why? I think I like yours better because it's slimmer, and it's $30 cheaper. This is the one I picked out, but I think I'll go with your choice...I assume they are almost identical performance wise. Everything else looks fantastic. I'll also go with the RAM you selected, it's a little faster than what I picked. I guess I'm just not technical enough to understand semi-debate you guys are having between SSD's. I just know absolutely nothing about SSD technology. Why do you feel the Samsung 950 is better than the Crucial MX200 that @Camacha suggested for me? I read different things on google about the memory component (SLC vs. MLC vs. eMLC vs. TLC vs. 3-D, etc). The MX200 has MLC, while the 850 has 3-D, and your new suggestion, the 950 has I have no idea. I also don't know if M.2 is better than SATA3 6GB/s, or if it is just a different type of connection, or what. I know nothing! I do see that the Samsung 950 is $100 more than the Crucial MX200 or the Samsung 850, however. Honestly, I somewhat doubt that this will be necessary. I think I may choose the cheaper version, either the 850 or the MX200... Just having a SSD will be a massive speed increase, I don't know if I necessarily need such an expensive SSD? I don't know though...I had no idea how out of touch I was with this technology, it's been so damn long since I last even built a computer.

Edit: At the same, time, if there is a very clear and noticeable performance boost, or you think it's totally worth spending the extra $100 on the Samsung 950 instead of one of the other two SSDs we talked about, then I absolutely have no problem with that and will drop the extra money on it. Right now my cart is at ~$1,750, which is fine. What I meant was that I just don't want to throw money away or spend it on trivialities, because anything I don't spend is money I have in my pocket.

Edited March 17, 2016 by KocLobster

[Camacha]

2 hours ago, KocLobster said:

This was the new HD I was looking at, as per @Camacha's suggestion of Red over Black. After viewing this page describing the different WD colors, I have to agree. Red will be a bit quieter, which is always great! Specifically, this is the drive I was considering: WD Red Pro 2TB NAS Hard Disk Drive - 7200 RPM Class SATA 6Gb/s 64MB Cache 3.5 Inch - WD2001FFSX@Camacha. It's $10 cheaper (but of course is 2TB, not 3TB). I don't fully understand what NAS is, but I do understand that it will be irrelevant to my needs.I only need one drive (not counting the SSD).

Be aware that the Red Pro is a 7200 RPM drive, as is the Black. The spindle speed is one of the major contributors to noise. When I look at the respective performance numbers, the difference is fairly negligible. The 3 TB WD Red is known as one of the quietest drive around. I have a bit of trouble digging up a relevant noise comparison, but you might want to look into that before making up your mind. If the Pro drives score great too in that regard, why not? Also, do let me know, I would be interested myself

The Reds are officially intended to be used in NAS systems, which is a small system with a couple of hard drives which is attached to the network. That way any system in your house can access the same files easily over said network. The drives can be used perfectly fine for non-NAS use too, though, and turn out to be very frugal and quiet drives. Silent PC Review is a big fan of these drives because of their noise characteristics.

 

2 minutes ago, Alphasus said:

I call BS on the loading times claim. As I type this, I am working off of a Samsung 850 EVO 120 GB drive with a caviar blue. My laptop has a 950 pro, running the same OS. it has half the boot time, and opens KSP(veritably) 4 times as fast. It is most definitely far faster and noticeably quicker. My KSP loading time on the desktop is 1 minute. KSP is somewhere between 15 and 20 seconds on the laptop.

Please, keep the discussion civil. Also, claims without proper benchmarks are dangerous. Personal experience has been proven to be a fickle thing, though benchmarks in this case would be useless anyway. You are comparing a TLC drive to a SLC one, possibly with RAPID enabled too. I refer to the post you quoted for the explanation why TLC is inherently inferior. Not to mention the two different systems.

 

Just look at real world tests done between the MX200 and the Samsung 950: even though the Samsung uses PCI-e, the MX200 only boots 0.5 seconds slower. That is not something you will notice. All other real world benchmarks show similar results. The Intel 750 results are appalling and why I mentioned that NVMe drives sometimes perform worse than their SATA counterparts.

[Alphasus]

 

2 minutes ago, KocLobster said:

Yes, everything looks great man. You picked a slightly different ASUS monitor than me, any particular reason why? I think I like yours better because it's slimmer, and it's $30 cheaper. This is the one I picked out, but I think I'll go with your choice...I assume they are almost identical performance wise. Everything else looks fantastic. I'll also go with the RAM you selected, it's a little faster than what I picked. I guess I'm just not technical enough to understand semi-debate you guys are having between SSD's. I just know absolutely nothing about SSD technology. Why do you feel the Samsung 950 is better than the Crucial MX200 that @Camacha suggested for me? I read different things on google about the memory component (SLC vs. MLC vs. eMLC vs. TLC vs. 3-D, etc). The MX200 has MLC, while the 850 has 3-D, and your new suggestion, the 950 has I have no idea. I also don't know if M.2 is better than SATA3 6GB/s, or if it is just a different type of connection, or what. I know nothing! I do see that the Samsung 950 is $100 more than the Crucial MX200 or the Samsung 850, however. Honestly, I somewhat doubt that this will be necessary. I think I may choose the cheaper version, either the 850 or the MX200... Just having a SSD will be a massive speed increase, I don't know if I necessarily need such an expensive SSD? I don't know though...I had no idea how out of touch I was with this technology, it's been so damn long since I last even built a computer.

Sure, go with whatever you want on the SSD. But the 950 is definitively faster in real world tests. Both SSDs will be great. And, the compatibility on the motherboard with fast SSDs will be nice in 1 year. I would recommend, in a year, tossing a now cheaper m.2 ssd in there. If you go samsung, samsung has 2 tiers: EVO and PRO 

850 Pro(newegg says more reliable and longer lasting)

850 EVO(cheap, similar speed as pro, lower durability)

MX-200(features Camacha mentioned)

Those are the 3 options.

3 minutes ago, Camacha said:

 

Please, keep the discussion civil. Also, claims without proper benchmarks are dangerous. Personal experience has been proven to be a fickle thing, though benchmarks in this case would be useless anyway. You are comparing a TLC drive to a SLC one, possibly with RAPID enabled too. I refer to the post you quoted for the explanation why TLC is inherently inferior. Not to mention the two different systems.

 

Just look at real world tests done between the MX200 and the Samsung 950: even though the Samsung uses PCI-e, the MX200 only boots 0.5 seconds slower. That is not something you will notice. All other real world benchmarks show similar results. The Intel 750 results are appalling and why I mentioned that NVMe drives sometimes perform worse than their SATA counterparts.

I edited my post to keep it civil. I am sorry. Guess my testing was somewhat unbalanced.