KSP1 Computer Building/Buying Megathread

[qzgy]

8 hours ago, eddiew said:

My guess is you'll feel the lag around 200 parts in vacuum, maybe 150 in atmosphere.

Honestly, think it might be closer to 300 atmo 400 vacuum. Depending on mods and stuff. Not entirely sure though.

[Ub3rshadow]

i would be wary about the 4th gen i5, but you should be good.

[maceemiller]

I have a complete spud of a laptop (hp elitebook ....8gb ram, nvs3100, 2.6ghz) and KSP runs fine....a bit laggy on kerbin, laythe, due to the water I think but not an issue once up in orbit, on the mun etc...you sir will be 100% fine now go and buy it!!

Edited December 19, 2018 by maceemiller

[Fearless Son]

20 hours ago, eddiew said:

It will be fine, but like everyone else's PC it will hit a performance wall if you go for too many parts in a vessel. My guess is you'll feel the lag around 200 parts in vacuum, maybe 150 in atmosphere. Which is actually plenty to do pretty much anything, unless you get into aesthetic building and start slapping on things you don't need but which look fun.

I want to emphasize @eddiew's point here: part count on a single vessel is a huge factor.  KSP actually runs pretty well on most machines provided you don't try to explode the part count, and if you do go overboard on parts it is going to eventually grind to a crawl no matter how powerful your machine is.  The factors the simulation needs to calculate at once can go up exponentially as you add parts, and you quickly hit diminishing returns for system power versus performance gain.  

It's not too terribly restrictive, so long as you use some moderation in your design.

[EDIT]: I should mention, I am talking about the stock game here.  Once you start adding mods, you are going off the map as far as performance goals are concerned, "Here There Be Space Krakens" and all that.  Mods can be great, but as far as performance impact goes you are assuming your own risk.

Edited December 19, 2018 by Fearless Son

[CatastrophicFailure]

I finally got paid the two years of backpay my employer has owed me for the last, well, two years, so among other things I’m looking for a new computer. 

But I’m so out of the loop at this point I’m not even sure what to be looking for.  I used to know it all.. back in the dark times... back in Win3.1... Anyways, this will finally be a dedicated rig for running KSP. That’s 90% of what I do, but I’d like to keep it usable for other games as well (the wife insists I get the new GTA the day it comes out... whenever it does come out...). I’d been tossing around building it myself this time, but now I’m not so sure. Dunno if I want another project right now, and the list of stuff is just so mind-boggling at this point get the latest 1200mm 4K screen-wiping case fan! A must-have for any rig!  I don’t need fancy or pretty colors, just to not turn my office into a sauna. 

The only thing I am sure of is that I’m irrationality in love with this case:

Everything else is up in the air. Obviously I’ll get more bang for the buck building, but I’m torn. If I buy, I’d probably go thru CyperPowerPC again, they did my current rig and I’m pretty happy with it still. 

32 gigs of RAM is the other target, but flarp it’s expensive.  

Thoughts/advice, guys? Budget is a bit skinny at a firm $1500. Cuz papa also needs a new pair of shoes. 

[Vanamonde]

bookingvaness193, your question has been merged into the master thread for this sort of thing. 

[qzgy]

4 hours ago, CatastrophicFailure said:

Thoughts/advice, guys? Budget is a bit skinny at a firm $1500. Cuz papa also needs a new pair of shoes. 

Thats actually not a horrible budget. I think mine was only 1000 or so. Honestly been awhile since I looked at this kind of stuff seriously but umm, given your conditions, this is what I came up with (https://pcpartpicker.com/list/JhCPHh)

Honestly, for the storage I'd actually just use the old storage from your current system, which saves about 100 dollars. I'm also assuming you don't need a new OS or peripherals. Tried to prioritize CPU over everything else, since main purpose is KSP. Graphics card should be decent enough for most things.

Not sure though if its exactly your best bet because i tried as best as possible to color coordinate, not look purely at price to performance, but I'd say it's a start.

I also realize its not the exact case you showed but uhh... its what they had on that site.

 

[CatastrophicFailure]

@qzgy Thanks for the info, sorry for the belated response, my neighborhood's been in the dark ages the last few days. 

You've given me enough to start comparing apples to apples at least. Er, poor word choice, I guess, but... And DANG RAM is alot cheaper on Amazon!
Yes, I plan to migrate over most of my drives, just need a little SSD for OS. Will need a new copy/licence of Windows, I supposed, and get stuck with Win10  I think the Win8.1 install on my current rig was actually the last hardcopy software I ever bought, from an actual physical store, even. 

For reference, here's my current setup:

i5-4690K @3.5ghz
16GB Ram
Gigabyte Z97N-WIFI
Radeon R9 200 6890MB
Win 8.1

OK, after some fiddling, here's what I came up with:

Spoiler

• *BASE_PRICE: [+1289]
• BLUETOOTH: None
• CABLE: None
• CARE1: Cooler Master Mastergel Maker CPU-Thermal Compound Optimized for Thermal Dissipation [+10]
• CAS: Thermaltake Core P3 E-ATX Mid-Tower Open Frame + Support Wall-Mounting Gaming case w/ USB 3.0 [+67]
• CASUPGRADE: RGB Multi-Color 16 color LED 1x interior light strip w/ Remote Controller [+12]
• CC: None
• CD: None
• COOLANT: None
• CPU: Intel® Core™ Processor i7-8700K 3.70GHZ 12MB Intel Smart Cache LGA1151 (Coffee Lake)
• CS_FAN: 3X 120mm Color Case Cooling Fans for your selected case [+15] (Blue Color)
• ENGRAVING: None
• EVGA_POWER: None
• FA_HDD: None
• FAN: CyberpowerPC Asetek 550LC 120mm Liquid Cooling CPU Cooler (Single Standard 120MM Fan)
• FLASHMEDIA: None
• FREEBIE_CU: $50 AMEX Gift Card
• FREEBIE_HD: None
• FREEBIE_SSD: None
• HDD: 500GB WD Blue Series SATA-III 6 Gb/s SSD - Seq R/W: Up to 545/525 MB/s, Rnd R/W up to 100/80k [-2] (Single Drive)
• HDD2: None
• HEADSET: None
• IUSB: Built-in USB 2.0 Ports
• KEYBOARD: CyberpowerPC Multimedia USB Gaming Keyboard
• MEMORY: 8GB (4GBx2) DDR4/3000MHz Dual Channel Memory (ADATA XPG Z1)
• MICROPHONE: None
• MONITOR: None
• MOPAD: None
• MOTHERBOARD: MSI Z370 GAMING PLUS ATX w/ RGB, USB 3.1, 2 PCIe x16, 4 PCIe x1, 6 SATA3, 1 M.2 SATA/PCIe [Intel Optane Ready]
• MOUSE: CyberpowerPC Standard 4000 DPI with Weight System Optical Gaming Mouse
• NETWORK: Onboard Gigabit LAN Network
• OS: Windows 10 Home (64-bit Edition)
• OVERCLOCK: Pro OC (Performance Overclock 10% or more) [+19]
• POWERSUPPLY: 600 Watts - Standard 80 Plus Certified Power Supply - SLI/CrossFireX Ready
• PRO_WIRING: None
• PROJECTOR: None
• RUSH: 5% Instant Rebate on all orders over $999 for NO-RUSH Delivery, order will ship in 3 to 4 Weeks (cannot guarantee Christmas delivery). Must Enter Coupon Code "NORUSH" during checkout.
• SERVICE: 3 Years FREE Service Plan (INCLUDES LABOR AND LIFETIME TECHNICAL SUPPORT)
• SLI_BRIDGE: None
• SOUND: HIGH DEFINITION ON-BOARD 7.1 AUDIO
• SPEAKERS: None
• USBHD: None
• USBX: None
• VIDEO: AMD Radeon RX 580 8GB GDDR5 Video Card [VR Ready] [-92] (Single Card)
• VIVE_HEADSET: None
• WARRANTY: STANDARD WARRANTY: 1 Year Parts WARRANTY
• WNC: None
• WTV: None
• _PRICE: (+1318)

Not sure if I can link directly there. Thoughts? I stepped down from the GTX 1060 to a RX 580 8GB, figure I could always add a second card down the road. Could possibly step down on the power supply, too, but that might negate adding the card later. Leaves me a little wiggle for the Tax Man . I'll get RAM elsewhere, either squeeze that in somewhere else, or could I maybe cannibalize and swap with my current rig?

Current rig will get refreshed as a stand-alone system to run my security cameras, could probably get by with 8gb on that.

RX 580 8GB vs GTX 1060 6GB

Edited December 24, 2018 by CatastrophicFailure

[tsaven]

2 hours ago, CatastrophicFailure said:

Thoughts?

An i7 is a waste of money for 99% of gaming, and especially so for KSP.   An i5-8600K will give you identical performance and save you over $120, which you could simply pocket or spend on a bigger radiator to do some OCing (which WILL help for KSP).

And if this is primarily for KSP,  the graphics card won't matter much either.  You might as well re-use your existing card and only upgrade once you want to play games that actually require it.  Maybe let prices drop a little bit more now that the crypto bubble is collapsing.

I went from a similar setup to you (i5-4590) to my current rig (i5 8600k, OCed to 5.2ghz, de-lidded with a 280mm radiator) and my framerate more than doubled.

[CatastrophicFailure]

16 minutes ago, tsaven said:

An i7 is a waste of money for 99% of gaming, and especially so for KSP. 

How so? Not doubting, just seeking to understand...

[qzgy]

1 minute ago, CatastrophicFailure said:

How so? Not doubting, just seeking to understand...

My guess (and I think after looking a bit closer I will agree) is that the performance gain for the money is probably quite small. Single threaded performance seems about the same, and since thats what matters, there wouldn't be much benefit from the i7.

 

[tsaven]

1 minute ago, CatastrophicFailure said:

How so? Not doubting, just seeking to understand...

The only difference between the i7-8700k and the i5-8600k is a little bit of extra cache, and hyperthreading.  Besides that they are identical; same number of cores, same die process, same everything.  Even the tiny difference in clock speed doesn't matter because they're unlocked processors; run them at whatever frequency you want.

Hyperthreading doesn't help games at all, and realistically cache doesn't matter much either.  The primary thing that matters for game performance (and in KSP, almost the only thing that matters) is single-thread performance which is determined almost exclusively by clock speed.

That's not to say that Hyper-threading isn't useful, in some applications it can give very noticeable performance improvements (applications such as industrial video rendering, graphic design, and other workloads that are heavily multi-threaded can see large performance gains especially).  However, 99% of users will never see that kind of workload on a regular basis and are probably just buying an i7 because of Intel's fantastic marketing team who's managed to convince them that it's required.

[tsaven]

19 minutes ago, qzgy said:

My guess (and I think after looking a bit closer I will agree) is that the performance gain for the money is probably quite small. Single threaded performance seems about the same, and since thats what matters, there wouldn't be much benefit from the i7.

 

Yup.   And the only reason that single-core performance appears different between them at all is because the i7 is clocked 100mhz higher (which again, it's an unlocked processor.  Clock it to whatever you want).

Hyper-threading is a way of faking more cores on the processor.  Even though the i5 and the i7 both have the exact same number of physical cores (six), the hyper-threading feature of the i7 makes your computer think that the i7 actually has 12.  For some applications this is very useful.  But for single-threaded stuff like gaming it doesn't matter.

I often compare the i7 to a pickup truck, and the i5 to a car.  Sure the pickup truck is more powerful if you need its capabilities, but if all you're doing is transporting a single person then it doesn't matter which vehicle you chose.  The speed limit is the same, they'll both get there in the same amount of time and you might as well use the cheaper option.

[CatastrophicFailure]

13 minutes ago, tsaven said:

The only difference between the i7-8700k and the i5-8600k is a little bit of extra cache, and hyperthreading.  Besides that they are identical; same number of cores, same die process, same everything.  Even the tiny difference in clock speed doesn't matter because they're unlocked processors; run them at whatever frequency you want.

Ok, now that makes sense, thanks.  I started getting lost from computer scene when it seemed to hit this limit with clock speeds and everyone jumped on the MOAR COARES bandwagon. So stepping back to an i5 and maybe the power supply, I should even be able to get the RAM there and keep everything simple. 

3 minutes ago, tsaven said:

often compare the i7 to a pickup truck, and the i5 to a car.  Sure the pickup truck is more powerful if you need its capabilities, but if all you're doing is transporting a single person then it doesn't matter which vehicle you chose.  The speed limit is the same, they'll both get there in the same amount of time and you might as well use the cheaper option.

Lol, good thing you didn’t start off with that analogy, I’m a truck guy... 

[tsaven]

1 minute ago, CatastrophicFailure said:

Ok, now that makes sense, thanks.  I started getting lost from computer scene when it seemed to hit this limit with clock speeds and everyone jumped on the MOAR COARES bandwagon. So stepping back to an i5 and maybe the power supply, I should even be able to get the RAM there and keep everything simple. 

Sadly this is true.    The single-thread gains have been maaaaaybe 5% for each generation, although voltage requirements have improved which makes OCing easier.  And if you're not planning on OCing then there's no reason to spend extra on the K version of the processor (the only difference in the i5-8600 vs i5-8600K is the unlocked multiplier).  KSP especially will see a noticeable boost in performance from a good OC, 5ghz is easy to hit without doing anything weird.

If you wanna go really nuts you can start de-lidding the CPUs and replacing the crappy thermal interface material with liquid metal, which gives a huge drop in temperatures and has seen people getting past 5.3 or 5.4GHz.  But that's pretty sketchy and a lot more risk/cost for decreasing performance rewards.

[CatastrophicFailure]

9 minutes ago, tsaven said:

And if you're not planning on OCing then there's no reason to spend extra on the K version of the processor (the only difference in the i5-8600 vs i5-8600K is the unlocked multiplier).  KSP especially will see a noticeable boost in performance from a good OC, 5ghz is easy to hit without doing anything weird.

Cool.  Yeah, will definitely be going the OC route, that company I’m pricing through will even do that for buyers. “Nothing weird” is always a plus, too. Like...

 

 

12 minutes ago, tsaven said:

If you wanna go really nuts you can start de-lidding the CPUs and replacing the crappy thermal interface material with liquid metal,

Do you want T-1000s? Cuz I’m pretty sure that’s how you get T-1000s...

[qzgy]

4 hours ago, CatastrophicFailure said:

could I maybe cannibalize and swap with my current rig?

Probably not. 90% sure the two systems use different memory standards (DDR4 vs DDR3) (also oh damn looking at the prices on the website I'd say you're better installing your own memory....)

4 hours ago, CatastrophicFailure said:

RX 580 8GB vs GTX 1060 6GB 

Judging from this benchmark (https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-1060-6GB-vs-AMD-RX-580/3639vs3923) they look pretty similar in terms of performance......

19 minutes ago, tsaven said:

KSP especially will see a noticeable boost in performance from a good OC, 5ghz is easy to hit without doing anything weird.

I have to ask, I've tried OC'ing my 4690K, though I've only gotten to about 4.2 ghz stably. Is there any way to make that go higher without stressing the CPU too much?

Edited December 24, 2018 by qzgy

[tsaven]

35 minutes ago, qzgy said:

I have to ask, I've tried OC'ing my 4690K, though I've only gotten to about 4.2 ghz stably. Is there any way to make that go higher without stressing the CPU too much?

On that generation of CPU, not really.  Take the usual path of throwing voltage at it to get the clock speeds up, then throwing cooling at it to keep the temperatures under control, and hope you won the silicon lottery.  OCing isn't great for any CPUs, but it's not like we're trying to get our chips to last for 10 years or something.

44 minutes ago, CatastrophicFailure said:

Do you want T-1000s? Cuz I’m pretty sure that’s how you get T-1000s...

But you can easily knock a solid 20c off your temperatures!  And all you'll have to do is spend like a hundred bucks on the special tools and goop and totally void your warranty!

[Harry Rhodan]

2 hours ago, CatastrophicFailure said:

everyone jumped on the MOAR COARES bandwagon.

I think most gaming companies are having to deal with multicore architectures and even hyperthreading because most AAA games are developed for consoles and both PS4 and Xbox One ae built around an old AMD architecture with eight cores (or rather 4 modules *shudder*) and awful single core performance. But then again most AAA titles are shooty and jumpy stuff.

[CatastrophicFailure]

11 hours ago, tsaven said:

But you can easily knock a solid 20c off your temperatures!  And all you'll have to do is spend like a hundred bucks on the special tools and goop and totally void your warranty!

 Just read a thing on it, fascinating concept, but...

Spoiler

I’ll stick with thermal paste and a big radiator, thanks. 

[Allglad]

On 10/10/2018 at 11:22 PM, Dafni said:

Dont be afraid to take the plunge, man, it would be worth it.

For what its' worth, modern systems, be it laptops of pre-built PCs, are pretty much plug and play. Win10 is also super easy in that sense.

Heck, even if you build your own PC it is still super doable. I built mine here with almost zero knowledge about Windows and all that. Runs without a hitch since day one. Things are very user frinedly these days.

All the best

 

Daf

 Cool info.  Looks like playing on a Apple laptop or “tower” pc is good.   I’m not going windows, and only see using my iPad and I don’t think it will play on iPad...so I wait for SR2 or SA2 on iOS.

[bmcKSP]

What does this group think if the Ryzen 5 2400G for both processor and graphics needed for KSP at 1080p with EVE and Scatter?  Anyone have something similar? I would love not having to shell out extra cash for a graphics card. 

 

[Harry Rhodan]

11 hours ago, bmcKSP said:

What does this group think if the Ryzen 5 2400G for both processor and graphics needed for KSP at 1080p with EVE and Scatter?  Anyone have something similar? I would love not having to shell out extra cash for a graphics card.

Scatterer maybe, EVE probably not. Anything that needs a high memory bandwith like better and bigger textures will be absolutely detrimental to the performance of the onboard GPU.

Edited December 29, 2018 by Harry Rhodan

[Hummingbird Aerospace]

Hello,

I have recently been into computer-building, and I have recently amassed the money to build a computer. I am really worried it wont work out well, and I will just have spent $400+ on a gaming PC inferior to my Mac. I was wondering if:

a) if this is a good setup (https://www.wepc.com/builds/best-gaming-pc-under-400/)

b) if I should switch the Celeron with a slightly better processor (like a Pentium or an i3) and the GTX 1050 with a less expensive graphics card (I intend to play other games than KSP [boo, hiss, i know])

c) if this would be able to compete with a iMac Retina 4K, 21.5-inch, Late 2015

Any response is appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[Geonovast]

7 minutes ago, Hummingbird Aerospace said:

b) if I should switch the Celeron with a slightly better processor (like a Pentium or an i3) and the GTX 1050 with a less expensive graphics card (I intend to play other games than KSP [boo, hiss, i know]

Celerons are garbage.  I wouldn't put one in a Facebook machine, let alone a "gaming" machine.  Slapping the word "Gaming" on a computer means literally nothing.  I see barebones builds selling as "gaming" PCs all the time, and it's meaningless.

Honestly, I think you should just save up a little longer and get something with a good i5 and at least the 4GB 1050.  If you buy that slim-downed box and manage to get some more cash to beef it up later... it will cost way more than the price difference than buying it better to begin with.