Show and Tell - Jool Flyby

[Ephraimptgt]

On 9/30/2022 at 4:20 PM, Ghostii_Space said:

For Show and Tell this month, we have an ingame flyby of Jool!
What is your favorite Jool fact?

 

will xbox series x have all the same features and updates with ksp 2? cause old ksp doesn't have all the features on xbox.

[Fullmetal Analyst]

15 hours ago, Ephraimptgt said:

will xbox series x have all the same features and updates with ksp 2? cause old ksp doesn't have all the features on xbox.

obviously a console cant have all the features of a pc version without crippling the pc version

[t_v]

2 minutes ago, Fullmetal Analyst said:

obviously a console cant have all the features of a pc version without crippling the pc version

Elden ring: guess I’ll die. Seriously, what is with these generalizations? If you code a PC version, and the console version is being coded independently, then there is no difference to the PC version whether the console devs manage to include every feature or not. If you code a console thing and port it over to PC, you might not be using the computer’s full potential, but it doesn’t really make a difference the other way around. 

[The Aziz]

  

5 minutes ago, Fullmetal Analyst said:

obviously a console cant have all the features of a pc version without crippling the pc version

Why not?

Edited October 22, 2022 by The Aziz

[Alexoff]

On 10/2/2022 at 7:41 PM, t_v said:

There could definitely be a major problem, but there could also definitely be no problem at all, and people "saying everything is fine" is just because so far, lots of people have been jumping to negative conclusions, and you'll notice that when people jump to conclusions that the game is doing exceedingly well (usually with lots of demanding features impossibly optimized) the same people that counteract negative conclusions counteract those ones. This isn't a discussion between negative and positive people, it is a discussion between jumping to conclusions and recognizing that we don't know enough to make them. 

Pretty funny reading this today. I must be able to collect a huge collection of comments that have told me this since 2020. And probably even more I can remember February 25 ...

[t_v]

19 minutes ago, Alexoff said:

Pretty funny reading this today. I must be able to collect a huge collection of comments that have told me this since 2020. And probably even more I can remember February 25 ...

I still see nothing wrong with the statement that I made. I didn't make unrealistic predictions or jump to conclusions, and I was wrong. I would rather be wrong than go out on a hypothesis without logic and be right. However, I don't think I was as wrong as you may think, so let me re-phrase this "funny" post with new information.

There is a chance that the devs actually haven't coded any of the systems they are introducing in early access, but there is a chance they have coded them, and people saying "It's not going to be two years of EA" is just because so far, lots of people have been jumping to negative conclusions, and you'll notice that when people jump to the conclusion that this means that KSP 2 will be the most feature-packed game ever by the end of release, the same people that counteract negative opinions counteract those ones. This isn't a discussion between negative and positive people, it is a discussion between jumping to conclusions and recognizing that we don't know enough to make them.

I feel like you may have missed the point - you are free to have personal predictions for how the game will turn out, how development is going, etc., but please don't make it seem that these are going to be the case. For example: some forum members thought the game was actually vaporware and the entire development cycle was an elaborate, multi-million dollar ruse to entertain the follies of Nate Simpson, who was apparently a trickster god of some sorts. You and I both know that the game definitely could have been a vaporware. But we don't jump to that conclusion because we don't know enough about KSP 2 to support it. The expression "a broken clock is right twice a day" comes to mind... I'll restate this: I'd rather be reasonably wrong than be right on a lucky unsupported hunch. 

[Fullmetal Analyst]

On 10/22/2022 at 6:11 PM, t_v said:

Elden ring: guess I’ll die. Seriously, what is with these generalizations? If you code a PC version, and the console version is being coded independently, then there is no difference to the PC version whether the console devs manage to include every feature or not. If you code a console thing and port it over to PC, you might not be using the computer’s full potential, but it doesn’t really make a difference the other way around. 

elden ring controls for pc are totally crippled, instead of being able to just press a number key to use an item slot, we actually have to scroll through 8 different item slots using 2 keys, and then we have to activate this item with a third key which is totally retarded imo...

this issue could have easily been avoided, sadly the devs are running some sort of console masterrace mentality and didnt even think about extending control scheme for PC

On 10/22/2022 at 6:12 PM, The Aziz said:

Why not?

because console hardware and control scheme are severely limited

alot of performance issues could be circumvented by shifting stuff to memory instead of recalculating it on the CPU every time, sadly one cant just add more RAM to a console, so the entire game basically has to be designed around a consoles capabilities

the UI also has to be designed in a way that supports the limited number of buttons on a controller: instead of having one which is easy to use with a mouse and keyboard, in many games we have to deal with dumb oversized UI that makes it hard to browse inventories and the likes on PC, often making it very clunky to use compared to what it could be

Edited October 26, 2022 by Fullmetal Analyst

[Fullmetal Analyst]

On 10/22/2022 at 10:11 PM, t_v said:

I'll restate this: I'd rather be reasonably wrong than be right on a lucky unsupported hunch. 

why are u even basing ur opinion on what others think, instead of just basing it on hard facts?

[The Aziz]

2 hours ago, Fullmetal Analyst said:

sadly the devs are running some sort of console masterrace mentality and didnt even think about extending control scheme for PC

Nah, some games were just simply designed with gamepad control in mind as a main controller type. And because some of the controls are complex combinations (I dunno, hold R1, swipe down with the stick, tap left on Dpad, hold X), the controls on keyboard are all over the place as a result. On gamepad you have both hands over 7 buttons EACH, not including the stick movement. While you have mouse under one hand with still very often 3 buttons + a scroll.

2 hours ago, Fullmetal Analyst said:

because console hardware and control scheme are severely limited

I'm constantly impressed how much power can be utilized from even old gen consoles, seeing some titles that are still being released on these platforms. And if your argument is based only on KSP EE history, then sorry, that's only one example, and of a severely unoptimized software on top of that.

2 hours ago, Fullmetal Analyst said:

the entire game basically has to be designed around a consoles capabilities

And thank gods that's much easier because you have only one set of hardware to work with. And as said above, a lot can be done with it if you know what you're doing.

2 hours ago, Fullmetal Analyst said:

the UI also has to be designed in a way that supports the limited number of buttons on a controller: instead of having one which is easy to use with a mouse and keyboard

You know you can connect a keyboard to a console, right? They could do it right and create a two control presets, one for gamepad (which you probably also could use on PC edition), one for keyboard.

[Fullmetal Analyst]

3 hours ago, The Aziz said:

You know you can connect a keyboard to a console, right? They could do it right and create a two control presets, one for gamepad (which you probably also could use on PC edition), one for keyboard.

doesnt change the fact that older games that were entirely designed for PC only had way better UI than modern titles which have to take console controls into consideration

3 hours ago, The Aziz said:

And thank gods that's much easier because you have only one set of hardware to work with. And as said above, a lot can be done with it if you know what you're doing.

still its severely limiting

3 hours ago, The Aziz said:

Nah, some games were just simply designed with gamepad control in mind as a main controller type. And because some of the controls are complex combinations (I dunno, hold R1, swipe down with the stick, tap left on Dpad, hold X), the controls on keyboard are all over the place as a result. On gamepad you have both hands over 7 buttons EACH, not including the stick movement. While you have mouse under one hand with still very often 3 buttons + a scroll.

they could still add better keyboard controls, dont see whats the problem with that, its not like u need to remake the entire game, u just have to add some extra input support

[The Aziz]

4 minutes ago, Fullmetal Analyst said:

still its severely limiting

Waiting for example of a game limited by console cababilities, excluding internal 30fps limit, other than mess of a code that is KSP1.

[t_v]

9 hours ago, Fullmetal Analyst said:

why are u even basing ur opinion on what others think, instead of just basing it on hard facts?

What hard facts are you talking about? The ones that led me to think the game would fully release on time are that the assets for colonies, interstellar ships, and resource gathering were all shown off at least a year ago, the visual effects looked pretty complete, there are several accounts of people playing multiplayer and people hired to develop it, and backend systems that indicate capabilities for other systems were shown. Not that someone else said these things, otherwise there would be a chance of you convincing me just by repeating yourself enough, which hasn’t worked. What hard facts make you think that the devs don’t have any of these systems started and they are only starting work on them now, or will only start them in early access?

Edited October 26, 2022 by t_v

[Kerbal123_Furry]

I discovered a normal map  of jool clouds in 0.17!

You can see shadows on jool in 0.17

[Fullmetal Analyst]

22 hours ago, t_v said:

What hard facts are you talking about? The ones that led me to think the game would fully release on time are that the assets for colonies, interstellar ships, and resource gathering were all shown off at least a year ago, the visual effects looked pretty complete, there are several accounts of people playing multiplayer and people hired to develop it, and backend systems that indicate capabilities for other systems were shown. Not that someone else said these things, otherwise there would be a chance of you convincing me just by repeating yourself enough, which hasn’t worked. What hard facts make you think that the devs don’t have any of these systems started and they are only starting work on them now, or will only start them in early access?

what im trying to say is that u seem to be basing ur opinion on other peoples opinion which is kinda weird, its not really your opinion anymore

[t_v]

2 hours ago, Fullmetal Analyst said:

what im trying to say is that u seem to be basing ur opinion on other peoples opinion which is kinda weird, its not really your opinion anymore

I just cited a lot of the evidence I used to make my opinion. I formed it from that evidence, not from another forum member (by the way, which people would that be? I genuinely don’t know what other people you are suggesting that voiced my opinion before me). It is my opinion, and that opinion was incidentally reached by other people, at the same time or after I formed mine. 

[Newgame space program]

Beautiful work Dev's I can't believe some people compare this to some mod.

[Fullmetal Analyst]

hahaha now they are actually doing early access, so much for early 2023 release, what a joke! and they actually expect us to pay 50$ to beta test their game lol

what a huge disappointment after all this wait time

in that sense:

source: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAL3XaP-LyE

 

Edited October 28, 2022 by Fullmetal Analyst

[18Watt]

Folks, please remember to be polite on the KSP forum, especially when your comments are directed at another forum member.  

Anyone who needs to review our Community Standards can review them here:  https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/guidelines/

[Pthigrivi]

13 hours ago, Fullmetal Analyst said:

hahaha now they are actually doing early access, so much for early 2023 release, what a joke! and they actually expect us to pay 50$ to beta test their game lol

I think everyone has their own tolerance for risk. Thats okay! If you’re not comfortable with being involved in an EA maybe you should just come back after the full game has been released. No one would judge you for it. 

[Stranded Lander]

I hope we can do some wacky shenanigans to land on Jool like HoDeok did with KSP1.

[Newgame space program]

On 10/28/2022 at 9:32 AM, Fullmetal Analyst said:

hahaha now they are actually doing early access, so much for early 2023 release, what a joke! and they actually expect us to pay 50$ to beta test their game lol

what a huge disappointment after all this wait time

in that sense:

source: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAL3XaP-LyE

 

Whats wrong with you, nearly every single place that I have seen you in has had you acting like some overweight jerk from GAMERGATE or some other toxic crap excrementsting on the game for really stupid reasons,  and now your comparing what will be a fairly polished (If incomplete) game to a beta test?? Every single one of your posts have proven a severe lack of empathy for the struggle that it is in the first place to make this game, seriously think about it.

Among other things this games goal is

1. Completely revamp the Kerbol system with volumetric clouds, new graphics, a dynamic tutorial system, revamped VAB, and more.

2. On top of this add hundreds of new parts with unique new mechanics that require the coding of hundreds of unique systems to implement.

3. Kill the flipping KRAKEN on top of all this

4. Revamp the Kerbals themselves.

5. Redo Maneuver node system, implement 2 body physics.

6. Make 2 new handcrafted star systems with new bodies, some of which with orbital eccentricities that require the tailoring of the UI to make it relatively intuitive to land and deal with them.

&. Perchistichrone trajectories.

This is not even factoring the possibility however slim of animal life on Lapat, all of this done by a pretty small team working for a publisher with a reputation rivaling EA in the struggle it gives its developers.

Have I mentioned that this extremely ambitious game has only been in development for 3 years?

I'm expecting the development cycle to be similar to no mans sky, when it releases its disappointing but as more and more parts of the roadmap are made good on the game recovers.

Edited October 29, 2022 by Newgame space program

[The Aziz]

6 minutes ago, Newgame space program said:

Have I mentioned that this extremely ambitious game has only been in development for 3 years?

Almost 5.

[Newgame space program]

5 minutes ago, The Aziz said:

Almost 5.

I did not know this, I thought that they started developing it in 2019, still my point stands, the average triple A title takes 3 to 5 years to develop and ksp2's small team is certainly not what an average triple A title has access to.

Edited October 29, 2022 by Newgame space program

[Jacob Kerman]

Oh my god oh my god OH MY GOD

[Jacob Kerman]

On 10/28/2022 at 10:32 AM, Fullmetal Analyst said:

hahaha now they are actually doing early access, so much for early 2023 release, what a joke! and they actually expect us to pay 50$ to beta test their game lol

what a huge disappointment after all this wait time

in that sense:

source: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAL3XaP-LyE

 

This game is under a lot of work, if you think you can do better quicker, then by all means go ahead! Until then, keep it to yourself!