I think this mission is not possible to complete

[kiel814]

So, I acepted this mission for which I have to put a satellite in a stationary orbit of Duna. I didn't realize that Ike is in a stationary orbit of Duna as well... no problem I can share the orbit as long as I'm not near it. However, the point which I have to be avobe of seems to be occupied by Ike itself.

As far as I can tell, there is no way to be on that orbit, above that point and not be in Ike's SOI... So is there a way to complete this mission? I tried landing on Ike, but of course it doesn't count.
 

[18Watt]

That mission is probably not possible to complete.  I think Duna and Ike are tidally locked to each other, so Ike is not going to move very far from that longitude, ever.

Those are frustrating.  

 

[AtomicTech]

43 minutes ago, kiel814 said:

So, I acepted this mission for which I have to put a satellite in a stationary orbit of Duna. I didn't realize that Ike is in a stationary orbit of Duna as well... no problem I can share the orbit as long as I'm not near it. However, the point which I have to be avobe of seems to be occupied by Ike itself.

As far as I can tell, there is no way to be on that orbit, above that point and not be in Ike's SOI... So is there a way to complete this mission? I tried landing on Ike, but of course it doesn't count.
 

Actually, it is possible! 

Notice how it asks to maintain stability for 10 seconds. All you need to do is reach that orbit for 10 seconds and then you complete the contract!

It might be rather tricky but it might be possible!

Edited December 15, 2022 by AtomicTech

[kiel814]

1 hour ago, 18Watt said:

I think Duna and Ike are tidally locked to each other, so Ike is not going to move very far from that longitude, ever.

They are. So it is not going to move at all. I tried time warping a couple of years just in case, but as far as I can tell, it didn't move a single degree.

1 hour ago, AtomicTech said:

All you need to do is reach that orbit for 10 seconds and then you complete the contract!

It is not just a synchronous orbit, it is a stationary orbit, so I need to be above a specific point on the surface (the waypoint marker on Duna). But that particular spot in the sky is occupied by the moon. If I get close to that orbit/longitude, I get captured by Ike's gravity, and I'm no longer in the designated orbit.

Edited December 15, 2022 by kiel814

[18Watt]

1 hour ago, kiel814 said:

It is not just a synchronous orbit, it is a stationary orbit, so I need to be above a specific point on the surface (the waypoint marker on Duna). But that particular spot in the sky is occupied by the moon. If I get close to that orbit/longitude, I get captured by Ike's gravity, and I'm no longer in the designated orbit.

I suspect this is one that is not possible to complete.  There are contracts like that which involve Mun/Kerbin.  In the Mun/Kerbin case, those are possible to complete, because eventually Mun will rotate to a different longitude.  But in this case, I don't see how you will ever satisfy the contract requirements.

By the way @kiel814, welcome to the club!  When contracts were originally introduced to the game they were referred to as 'Fine Print'.  In other words, you need to read the Fine Print before accepting contracts.  Although they are rare (Lucky You!!), there are indeed some which generate which are essentially impossible to complete.

Anyway, good luck!  And welcome to the KSP forums!

As @AtomicTech said, you never know, perhaps that contract is complete-able.  I have my doubts, but who knows?

[Leganeski]

5 hours ago, AtomicTech said:

Actually, it is possible! 

Notice how it asks to maintain stability for 10 seconds. All you need to do is reach that orbit for 10 seconds and then you complete the contract!

I don't think this will work.

In order to complete a contract like this one, all the conditions have to be satisfied at the same time. Even disregarding the "stability for 10 seconds" condition, the other conditions include "be directly above Area C-N1" and "be in a stationary orbit". Among other things, these conditions each require a craft to be in a specific volume of space. The "directly above" condition defines a conical volume extending from Area C-N1 out to Duna's SOI limit, and the "stationary orbit" condition defines a thin circular tube around the stationary orbit line minus the part in Ike's SOI. These two volumes of space never intersect, so it's impossible to be in both of them simultaneously.

It's not possible to satisfy the location conditions at any point in time, let alone for ten full seconds.

[Superfluous J]

Put it in an orbit you like and then use the cheats menu to complete the contract, getting the money and rep you deserve. Not your fault the game didn't tell you the contract was literally impossible to complete.

[Zhetaan]

13 hours ago, kiel814 said:

As far as I can tell, there is no way to be on that orbit, above that point and not be in Ike's SOI... So is there a way to complete this mission?

There is a way, but it is absolutely cheating.

Spoiler

1. Install Kopernicus.
2. Delete Ike.
3. Occupy the volume formerly held by Ike and complete the contract.
4. Move out of that volume (don't forget this part!).
5. Restore Ike.
6. Marvel at your godlike power.

That last step is optional, of course, but you might as well get some enjoyment out of it.

On a much more serious note, I suppose that this is a good time to point out that one of the unwritten caveats and general gotcha! moments of this game is that, unlike many (most, I think) games that offer repeatable, random missions and quests and the like, no provision is made in KSP to ensure that completing these missions is actually possible:  the random number generator will create elements that are possible (so you won't get something that asks for an orbit of 13 Gm over Kerbin), but it doesn't check to see whether the combination is possible.  It's up to you to decide, based on the information offered, whether to take the contract.  I think that the idea behind it is twofold:  first, as the administrator of the space agency, it's your job, not that of the contract writer, to decide whether doing these missions is within your capabilities.  The contract writers can be a lot like children who write NASA begging to be taken along on a trip to the moon without really understanding why that cannot be done.  Second, the impossible ones can be rather funny.  You've got a perfect opportunity to say, 'That's no space station; that's a moon!' right in front of you.

You could also say, 'That's not a satellite!  Oh, wait, yes it is.'

[Superfluous J]

12 hours ago, Zhetaan said:

as the administrator of the space agency, it's your job, not that of the contract writer, to decide whether doing these missions is within your capabilities

I'm not 100% sure you are given the tools to do that.

Does the game tell you over where on Duna you have to put the Stationary satellite, BEFORE you accept the contract? I don't know for sure but I don't think so.

Sure, you could just never take a Stationary contract at Duna, in case the location was under Ike.

Edited December 16, 2022 by Superfluous J

[Leganeski]

15 hours ago, Zhetaan said:

• Install Kopernicus.
• Delete Ike.

You could even just move Ike to a different longitude (something like "@meanAnomalyAtEpoch += 1"), which would make the contract possible but maintain the usual complications of Ike being in an unhelpful orbit.

15 hours ago, Zhetaan said:

no provision is made in KSP to ensure that completing these missions is actually possible

This is certainly true. On the flipside, you'll often get contracts that are easier to complete because of a technicality in the fine print. For example, the "extract ore from Eve and deliver it somewhere else" contracts don't require the ore you complete the contract with to be the same ore that you mined on Eve. You can mine the ore on Eve, immediately jettison it, do the already difficult ascent without extra payload, and then just get more ore on Gilly or anywhere else.

[Zhetaan]

11 hours ago, Superfluous J said:

I'm not 100% sure you are given the tools to do that.

Does the game tell you over where on Duna you have to put the Stationary satellite, BEFORE you accept the contract? I don't know for sure but I don't think so.

The Tracking Station shows the locations and orbits and such for proposed contracts.  I believe that that extends to placing a marker on the point on the ground that is supposed to remain in view of the satellite.  I don't know the extent to which this is affected by the Tracking Station upgrade level, but a fully-upgraded Station should tell everything that you need to know.

11 hours ago, Superfluous J said:

Sure, you could just never take a Stationary contract at Duna, in case the location was under Ike.

That said, this is probably the best option in terms of a long-term solution:  you either know that Ike is in that orbit, or you'll certainly find out.

8 hours ago, Leganeski said:

You could even just move Ike to a different longitude (something like "@meanAnomalyAtEpoch += 1"), which would make the contract possible but maintain the usual complications of Ike being in an unhelpful orbit.

True.  Or you could just move the contract target area to the other side of Duna.  My point was more about the fact that there's no way to salvage this contract without some kind of save-editing, and less about the practical complications of how to do so.

8 hours ago, Leganeski said:

On the flipside, you'll often get contracts that are easier to complete because of a technicality in the fine print. For example, the "extract ore from Eve and deliver it somewhere else" contracts don't require the ore you complete the contract with to be the same ore that you mined on Eve. You can mine the ore on Eve, immediately jettison it, do the already difficult ascent without extra payload, and then just get more ore on Gilly or anywhere else.

Also true, and hilarity can often ensue.  We've had a few people in here who asked how they were supposed to lift hundreds of tonnes of Ore to Eve orbit, and I quite enjoyed the facepalm moments when they were told, 'Don't bother.  Use different Ore.'  Technicalities are important:  'Test Launch Clamps on the Launchpad' is a lot easier than 'Test Launch Clamps in High Orbit', but for a while, anyway, both were potential contract offerings.

[kiel814]

Thanks for all the answers! I just decided to cancel the contract anyway, and accept my mistake of taking the contract without reading the fine print.

15 hours ago, Superfluous J said:

Does the game tell you over where on Duna you have to put the Stationary satellite, BEFORE you accept the contract? I don't know for sure but I don't think so.

I think it does. For any orbit contract you can go to the tracking station and it will show all the orbits of all contracts even before accepting them.  For missions like "take temp measurements at some altitude near location X", there's going to be a waypoint showing location X in the tracking station as well. I can't say for sure, but for stationary orbit missions it probably shows both the orbit and the waypoint.

Is it a pain to go to the tracking station to check every mission before accepting it? It is. But the vanilla game certainly offers you the tools for this.

[jimmymcgoochie]

How I would do it:

1. Land probe on Ike, facing Duna, with relay dishes.
2. Use cheats to complete contract- if Ike is in a stationary orbit over that point and you put a probe on Ike, technically the probe is in a stationary orbit over that point.
3. You also get science from Ike’s surface!